DutchWhites

shame about that - we should try to keep Bolton as independent and as far away from Manchester as possible. we should try to bring back the BWFC motto - The Pride of Lancashire - thus keeping the Lancashire name going in the town!

Funny how at least 2 people (myself included) have provided links. I bet you feel embarrased now with what you said. I do apologise if I inadvertedly embarrased you :-(

Not being funny, BUT could you guarantee that the game would have been ko between 6 and 7pm? If on Five (which was rightly turned down) it would have meant a 530 ko (to accomodate Spurs at 730) but BBC (to be braodcast on BBC3 - a tv station that doesn't come on air until 7pm) or ITV (a 730 ko on ITV4) - why turned down. Again if it was to get bum on seats at the reebok then yes it did do the trick but business wise it is a minus for TV companies - again it shows that the club can supposedly stand on its own without TV revenue (which would have been a lot more than what they actually gained in ticket revenue) and as such does a tv company want to be associated (whether by televising or other means) with a club that doesn't want cameras in its ground (whether it be UK based or for international rights - as that UEFA cup wasn't even sold to any overseas broadcaster and there were no highlights packages either) for a prime European match (doesn't matter who we played but any european match commands a more than decent television rights revenue). Atletico Madrid attendance being 26163 (from BWFC site) - was that the game? Ticket sales (guess at average price being GBP25) means a ticket revenue of GBP 654075 the merchandise sales of about (i.e. food, drinks) gbp10000 means a revenue of GBP 664,075.00. The average TV rights is in excess GBP800,000 for European games last season - taken from soccerlens.com. Also do not forget that Bolton just for normal PL games received 32million (and will be more this year for finishing 12th) - then look at it from a business point of view !! Now did it make good business sense?

Setanta definitely show UEFA games but they are on Setanta Ireland for Irish viewers and Bolton have had a fair few Saturday 3pm games on that channel this season! Just a pity cannot get Setanta Ireland in UK unless you have an Irish Skycard!!! If I remember Blackburn were away to a Eastern European country - hence the early kickoff which would mean 730 kick-off locally!

Fiscally speaking you WILL be surprised at how much it does bother Sky and Setanta! They saw a chance - because of the poor decision, and have now acted upon it. Idf anything business-wise its a Gerald Ratner situation.

AGMA is very much a non-US socialist model (i.e. very akin to communism but also believes in hierarchy and greed) in that money from each council goes into 1 pot and then gets divided amongst the councils for various strategies. Funnily enough Manchester gets the most money - why???? IF we were not part of that then the money could be used more wisely within the borough boundaries.

It was the City Final edition I have got - so how can a later edition be corrected. If takjen to court the papaer version has more of a standing than the web version as it is a HARD-copy

C-Charge, I agree was forced onto GREATER MANCHESTER by the government. AGMA decided to take control of the C-Charge as it would be considered a county-wide Charge. (by the way it was GMPTA and not GMITA - GMITA different body, which replaced GMPTA, due to different legisaltion that was intoduced in December last year!). Voting by the populous was not part of AGMA's remit until the very last minute (due to a number of councils saying no and Bolton going to vote). If the vote had not gone ahead the C-Charge would have been steam-rolled into place. BUt what concrete improvements to public transport would there have been in Bolton. Not many - yes various cosmetic improvements to stations and create a bus lane all the way into Manchester, along Manchester Road. In fact the bus route I live on - 95, would have been curtailed to operate between Bolton and Little Lever only - what good is that. Another fact that the GMITA were using the bus and rail network model of now rather than investiagtiong properly as to what was required - how is that benefitting Bolton whehn public transport is on the verge of collapse by the transport comapnies. (even now the 95 is on a 3 month stay of execution because First want to withdraw from it and replace it with nothing!) But the greater improvemenst to public transport was in Manchester itself - how could that have benefitted Bolton

That is from the website, but in the printed version (which is easily available at all good libraries and even the MEN offices in Manchester), and I have a copy in front of me as I write - it categorically advises that the postcodes ARE going to be replaced by an M postcode. As to why the website and the printed version (which is a hardcopy and as such more accountable than a web version) differ is unkown and possibly only the MEN can advise why.

Are you sure about that? Blackburn does not have anything like AGMA and guess what - it is now starting to bring more money into their town, that what Bolton does through AGMA. AGMA is a concrete neckless around Bolton's neck. We do not have full independence to do our own thing and have to go with the majority rule through AGMA. We are uniquely different to many parts of GM (same can be said for Wigan MBC as well! We are not direct neighbours to Manchester unlike the most of other MBC's in Manchester and as such we do have our own identity which is being stifled by AGMA. I can guarantee that if we were independent, like BLackburn, then Bolton, as a town, would not be in such a mess as it is now.

Lets see it from a business point of view. Say you are the head of Sport TV rights at sky. You hear the a club has refused TV rights to show a match - what would you think? Is that club worthy enough to be shown? Is that club boasting a situation in which it can afford to turn down TV rights therefore the TV company can save money (or even increase money) by not showing the club during a normal football season? The TV Company could, as a matter of fact, now offer even less money to gain TV rights from the club - is that good business sense? It may seem like bollocks to you in a fan capacity but in a business capacity it was suicidal to refuse money - we are not a big club, we do not have the clout like the big 4 do so any precedent we set, such as refusing rights, WILL have a definite effect on the future of the clubs TV appearance. Yes we may be mid-table fodder, but how many times has Newcastle, Villa, Portsmouth, Spurs and even West Ham been shown on TV this season (and have they ever refused TV rights deals if/when they have been in Europe?) It was a bad move by Phil to refuse and now he is complaining that we do not get the attention - funnily enough before the refusal TV companies were wanting to show us and negotiate with us, so why has that all dried up?

Do not forget that Blackburn is in the Ceremonial County Lancashire but is NOT governed by the bureaucrats in Lancaster but govern themselves - same with Blackpool and they are both very self sufficient and prosperous - I am sure Bolton could be the same if we left AGMA and GM and became part of the Ceremonial County of Lancashire. AGMA has no control - sure only trying to force the C-Charge on to us and they would have had full controll of all monies coming from C-Charge. Funnily enough the city with most members in AGMA is Manchestera nd guess where most of the money was going to go and guess which part of GM would have benefitted the most from the C-Charge - definitely no Bolton!

According to Monday's Manchester Evening News its not just the postmark but also the post code thats changing. (same goes with the SK and OM postcodes) Also, legally speaking, Bolton is the there ceremonial County of Greater Manchester and NOT Lancashire, unfortunately.

But the precedent has now been set and do not forget that Bolton Wanderers is there to make money. It is a business first and foremost before being a fans club! The game in question was wanting to be bought by either ITV to be shown on ITV4, but they were facing competition from BBC (BBC3 transmission) and Channel 5. Yes if Five had won the rights it would have been shown earlier to accomodate the other game - but Bolton could have (which they rightly did) refused that bid. But why, o why, did they refuse the bids from both ITV and BBC (fact of this knowledge is shown in statements from both companies which is accessible on their websites)? Bolton are now in an awkward position (which they should not be in) because they refused money!!! Money is what we require to survive at all costs in the PL. (also do not forget that Bolton Wanderers is a business and is there to make money and NOT just for the fans) Bolton do not bring attractive advertisers to the TV companies like Scum, Gunners, Russians and Scousers do but the free advertising that Bolton would have gained, along with the revenue is what the club is crying out for. Do not forget in the Champions League it is not the club that is selling the TV rights but UEFA itself (just like the FA and FL do in England), unlike UEFA cup, therefore United cannot refuse TV rights. This changes next season as UEFA Cup changes to the Europa League and it will be UEFA that will be selling the TV rights. (and the UK broadcaster for the Europa League Games next season is Channel Five) In other words at least this situation can no longer come about with regards to European games but it has had the detrimental effect with regards to the 2 main football broadcasters taken notice of what Bolton did and reacting to it. Business is business and fans come a poor second to commerce.

Greater Manchester County Council was abolished in 1986, and so its districts (the metropolitan boroughs) are now effectively unitary authority areas; however, the metropolitan county, which is some 496 square miles (1,285 km2), continues to exist in law and as a geographic frame of reference. Several county-wide services are co-ordinated through the Association of Greater Manchester Authorities. Thank you for your welcome, boltondiver. Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion with regards to County Councils and actual Counties hence why so many people believe that Greater Manchester was abolished when it wasn't. Its even more interesting to know that Blackpool and Blackburn with Darwen do not come under Lancashire County Council authority and are unitary authorities, within their own right, but still part of the County of Lancashire! Same, also, for Warrington still being part of County of Cheshire but a unitarian authority and NOT controlled by Cheshire County Council! To be honest the sooner the County of Greater Manchester gets abolished the better and give the MBC back to their original counties whether that be Lancashire, Cheshire or even Derbyshire.

I do not accept Greater Manchester at all and I always say Lancashire - remember Bolton Wanderers are The PRIDE of Lancashire! But the county of Greater Manchester has never been abolished so it still exists, unfortunately (although the council doesn't - remember a council does not make a county but its a political tool by all governments.). But the mancunianism doesn't stop with the post office as we have GM Fire GM Ambulance GM Police GMITA (Formerly GMPTA) GMPTE AGMA (Association of Greater Manchester Authorities) First Manchester (at least we have Arriva Liverpool in Bolton!!!) do you now see a pattern

Bolton and Rochdale are not in Manchester - they are in the County of Greater Manchester - a political county set up by the government of the time in 1974. What is going to happen now is that these two unique towns are being slowly taken over by Manchester. Correct me if I am wrong but Manchester is NOT our neighbour (same goes for the towns of Rochdale and Wigan) as we all have another MBC/CC inbetween us and Manchester. For me it is the thin edge of the wedge to total takeover by Manchester CC. I do not want me or my beloved whites to be assocaited or linked with (by being in the same postcode or whatever) Manchester United - EVER! and that is what will happen.

Again, apologies if I seem to argue a fact here but.... The matches in question were shown at 730pm - is that an ungodly time to have a match? (apart from Russia and couple of FAR Eastern European countries what time do the UEFA - or from next season Europa League - matches get shown? between 730 and 8 KO's right or wrong?) - also UEFA matches mean either ITV or Five showing the match - would they want to interrupt their viewing pulling schedule (i.e. early evening soaps, gameshows etc - or in case of BBC3 doesn't start until 7pm!) - the part that brings more revenue in for the companies than the whole football match? How many UEFA cup games have either Sky or Setanta actually shown? But lets see it from a Tv company point of view.... A club refuses to give rights to televise a match, what would you do in return? The club seems to be in a well position not to have the money, so give them the basic money (although number of matches will be less) and the club will be happy.(this can happen whether it be a PL game or European game due to the fact that the club refused its rights to at least one company - word of mouth type scenario). It is a fiscal/self advertising point of view with regards to the companies and nothing to do with what is in fashion or not. That fatal decision by Phil made the TV companies decide that we are not worth televising as we do not need the coverage - clubs admission by refusing the rights.

Try Bradley Fold with a Bolton phone number, M post code (although I never used it), and paying council tax to Bury, and officially coming under Radcliffe (I know its still part of Bury MBC) Now that is confusing!!!

Greater Manchester consists the towns of (and Borough/City Councils).... Wigan - Wigan MBC Leigh - Wigan MBC Bolton - Bolton MBC Bury - Bury MBC Rochdale - Rochdale MBC Oldham - Oldham MBC Ashton - Tameside MBC Hyde - Tameside MBC Stockport - Stockport MBC Salford - Salford CC Altrincham - Trafford MBC Trafford - Trafford MBC Manchester - Manchester CC (although some of the above towns are actually part of other (i.e. Leigh and Wigan, Altrincham and Trafford) Therefore what you say is, unfortunately, inaccurate as Rochdale is NOT in Lancashire but is still a part of Greater Manchester since 1974. Sorry for my passionate argument but I am well and truly Bolton proud and do not want to be associated with Manchester at any costs - we are our own town with our phone STD code so why can we not have our own postal code and keep our own truly unique identity?

Even so - it shows to the media companies that we do not need the coverage if we refuse and so they do not cover us. WBA havde had more games than us, so has Citeh, villa, Boro etc... I think the stance Phil took last season has damaged us with the media - it may have been peanuts but it could have been money used to help reduce the club debt or even go towards even more signings/wages for players.

with all the hoo har of the Farnworth sorting office closing and our post being sorted in Manchester - one thing has been overlooked and it has been officially announced by the Post Office..... the BL postcode is also disappearing and being replaced by M postcode. (Monday's Manchester Evening News - also OM and SK postcodes are being replaced by M) This means that Bolton will be a part of Manchester - just like Wogden!!! This I do not like! Firstly I was born in Bolton, Lancashire and not Bolton, Greater Manchester. I have grown up in a town with a separate identity from Manchester - helped with a BL postcode. Now not only will I be part of a larger Manchester but my beloved team will also have a Manchester postcode - NO!!!! The M postcode can be okay for the Red scum and for the Citeh's but for Bolton Wanderers - it is sacrilege!!! Is there any way this can be stopped? I do not want to be associated with the Red scum - EVER!!!!

To be honest it does not really help when the Chairman of the club, Philip Gartside, REFUSES television rights like he did last season for a couple of the UEFA games. This in turn then lets the TV companies (Sky and Setanta more than anyone else) think that we do not really need the coverage or the money as we can refuse the rights. Therefore they will show less. If anything, it is not about being a frashionable team but it is a results of actions the club has taken in recent history. Anyway, there is always the net if one cannot make it to the games.