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Wanderers Ways - passion not fashion

bwfcfan5

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bwfcfan5 last won the day on October 17

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About bwfcfan5

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  1. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    It was an advisory referendum. Which means non-legally binding. So yes. They can and should as MPs do what they judge is best for their constituents. As Amber Rudd was quoted saying in the cabinet meeting today "Just because we've put our seat belts on doesn't mean we should crash the car".
  2. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    Those who voted out, didn't vote for a deal. So I think it is disingenuous to say there is support for a deal that keeps us in a transition period potentially indefinitely or worse still in a customs union indefinitely. May cannot claim that is what the public wants - given all polls seem to suggest most Brexit voters wanted no deal. Therefore she should (using her logic) deliver that. The fact remains though in representative democracy the role of our representatives is to do what they JUDGE best for us - not necessarily to carry out the will of the people.
  3. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    https://news.sky.com/story/sky-data-poll-53-of-british-public-want-second-eu-referendum-11584278 Support for a referendum from this poll. Only 16% of people polled would vote for May's deal in a 2nd referendum. Worse figures than the Lord Ashcroft poll. Where is this imaginary public support for May's deal? She keeps telling us it is what people want. But polls consistently say otherwise. And not by narrow margins either.
  4. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    Retail is struggling massively in general. What I will say is, behind the headline figures, our economy has been sick for a long time. People are in work, but in jobs where wages have not matched inflation for a long time. In zero hours contracts, in uncertain positions. The effects of austerity and this wage freeze are starting to manifest themselves. The chickens are coming home to roost. All in a perfect swirl to match the Brexit chaos this ridiculous government has brought. We're in for a rocky ride and it isn't just because of Brexit but that will make it worse. You can't run an economy in the way the Tories have, especially when your key investments run aground. Next few years won't be pretty. We won't have a huge recession but it really would not surprise me to see very slow growth and the odd period of contraction. The finance sector will keep the economy afloat but only a few people will actually feel this. For the rest it will be a pseudo recession. Like 2010-2015.
  5. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    There are a load of factors - Brexit is one. But the idea that getting May's deal through changes consumer behaviour is laughable. If you want the strongest economy, then you stay in the EEA. People need to stop fudging this and stop pretending May's deal will actually help the economy. It isn't even damage limitation.
  6. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    The deal May proposes is nothing like they had in their manifesto. Manifesto pledges are not indicative of a mandate in all cases. As for a deal that honours the referendum, protects the economy and is workable with the EU - that is impossible. What parliament has to decide is what its priorities are. There is a deal currently that does not honour the referendum, does not protect the economy and is workable with the EU - but not with our parliament. There are other options for a deal - you could have a Norway style deal to exit and then progress to discussing a free trade deal - once we see what the free trade deal looks like we can then decide whether to move from Norway into a more distant relationship. That sort of phased exit is infinitely more managed and allows the referendum to be honored in stages. It allows checkpoints for Parliament and means business can get on with things quickly. It is workable with the EU, complies with the good friday agreement and ultimately would almost certainly pass parliament. The free trade arrangement to follow could be cross party and potentially at that point you could ask the public again - do you want to stay in the EEA with a customs relationship or do you want to sever further ties and take this FTA on the table. It is a simple, workable and clear solution. Prevents the cliff edge, potentially honours those Brexit voters MORE so than May's deal as at least we'd have control of the process back and crucially does not crash the economy.
  7. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    What are you proposing? I think the idea that globalisation is something that can be "rowed back" on is somewhat doomed to failure. I agree that it isn't necessarily a "good thing" but it isn't something any one country can just say "we're opting out of" and remain competitive. Certainly not one in the UK's position. There are ways to operate within it that can be successful and mitigate the damage somewhat. The problem I have is that since 1979 we've elected governments that prioritise the economy and economic growth, and specifically the service and financial sectors in London, over everything. And we've very deliberately made it clear that as an electorate that is what we'll continue to do. However, such a set of decisions are incompatible with, on the other hand, wanting an end to neo-liberalism and globalisation. The people who want that should all be rushing to support Corbyn because he's the only one who might come close to delivering that. Political realities and expectations are so wide apart currently. The rise of right wing populism is the retort to decades of right wing neoliberalism....it's pretty stupid.
  8. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    Sorry, but that is nonsense. We need to make the right decision - not just any decision because our leadership is so shoddy. This is a real chance for our sovereign parliament to take control and find some consensus. And then that would be something we can get behind. Currently you have May and two unelected civil servants who have cooked up a deal nobody likes and are now trying to do their best to deny parliament a proper and meaningful say - having frustrated them all along. There are already a majority of MPs in the house who want to stay in the EU.
  9. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    Absolutely agree. The key point though is that globalisation is going to continue regardless of being in the EU - we cannot put that cork back in that bottle. And those disadvantaged communities were not trampled on by the EU but by our own governments. The EU are a convenient scapegoat.
  10. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    The poll includes those people. Supporting Brexit would be disastrous for them. 66% of Labour voters, supported remain. And the % is going up all the time. Corbyn doesn't speak to the working man in the North regardless of Brexit.
  11. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-remainers-to-abandon-corbyn-if-he-passes-brexit-deal-6zfjgnm5w For anyone who thinks Labour should be supporting Brexit. This poll, and a few earlier ones suggest it would be electoral suicide for them to do so. Their vote is remain. They should be backing the majority of their members and voters rather than fence sitting.
  12. bwfcfan5

    King Ken

    I was there Saturday but after 20 minutes I'd have swapped for pretty much anything. It was shite. And cold. And dull. But I'll be there next time. It is just what we do. However, I do wonder if younger fans will eventually get fed up and abandon it. The past few home games haven't exactly had much to get excited about and overall the club is not exactly a vibrant exciting place. The 80s were grim but it feels like we're back there.
  13. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    But then those people need to address how we can have a Brexit that satisfies them AND comply with our international obligations under the good friday agreement. Without talking technology that it has already been explained AT PRESENT does not satisfy the requirement of a frictionless border. I get that Brexiteers haven't thought about this and that is abundantly apparent. But for all the bluster of the ERG, Boris etc.. none of them have any solution that actually works. The best they can say is "who is going to erect a hard border". Because in their addled minds the only thing we need to avoid is watchtower posts and barbed wire. But they absolutely will not accept that as soon as customs checks are required you violate the good friday agreement. UNLESS those checks can be done without changing how the border functions now.
  14. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    The backstop is required to allow the U.K. and Ireland to comply with their good Friday agreement responsibilities. It’s a legal guarantee. The fact is there isn’t under May’s deal any other way to guarantee this.
  15. bwfcfan5

    In Or Out Again

    Reality is we could have had a Norway type deal that would be infinitely better than this (still worse than remaining). But May doesn't want it. She's the obstacle to a way out of this.
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