Johnnyrotten

I might have a look at stats tomorrow when I'm less tired 😀 but those 56 games must include cup games, some v kids and reserves, and draws don't seem to count, as you say you can make any argument fit. 2 of the games you're saying we didn't win post-January were against a Prem team!

No problem with agreeing to differ, you have a much lower opinion of Collins and JDB than me, I respect your opinion. Mine is that there is no evidence to say we would have won that game at Derby with our first choice strike force, just as we didn't win plenty other "tougher" games with them. And genuinely not a dig at Charles (who scored some great goals away) or Vic, but neither would have made contact with that cross at Derby, they just don't score them type of goals, the cross would have had to have been low, like for Vic's goals v Fleetwood.

That's how I see it, I don't see how the standard of results at any time of the season have been much different to any other part of the season. Failure to beat the top teams home or away (unless v 10 men for half a game) and generally good results against the rest with the odd shocker thrown in. And still no home defeat for 4 months, compared to 3 by mid December to non promotion contenders. I don't see the difference of having Charles playing at Derby, Wigan & Blackpool - the period that has cost us most - when he wasn't scoring goals against that standard of opponent in the first place. Charles & Vic both played v Orient, Barnsley (home), Northampton etc, 3 relatively recent games which have cost us 2nd spot as much as any. The longer the season goes on, the better our pre-Christmas performances are getting, when not only were the opponents lower in the table, but we only played 9 away before Christmas compared to 12 at home.

I respect that viewpoint, but the difference between the 2 cups for me is that one provides memories without having to get to Wembley and the other can provide excitement in every single round, from the 1st to the semi, even in defeat sometimes (eg I enjoyed our 2 games v Liverpool a few years ago under Lennon). The U21s cup is only worth entering (IMO) if you get to Wembley as a minimum, so 2 teams get a great occasion/memory and 46 other league teams plus some kids play about 200 games that generate next to no interest or excitement for the majority of fans. IMO not worth the hassle and injury risk and I'd love us not to enter it next season if we're in L1.

Its hard to believe they really happened. Being (relatively) young at the time, I thought it would be something I'd be experiencing every 6 or 7 years maybe. But in 100 years+, that will be the only era - 1993/94 ish - where any Bolton fan will have witnessed two FA Cup games against Prem giants, home and away and knocking them out, under the lights. This isn't a surprise but its still a sad day.

You've probably answered my question above, if his strengths are to get chances for him in and around the 6 yard box (not unlike Charles although he probably creates more for himself generally). I would have thought that's what we try to do don't we? The wingbacks, especially Cogley, base their game on getting to or near the bi-line and rolling it across goal or picking out an oncoming attacker. Ideally that's what Vic feeds off surely.

Genuine question, not having a dig at Vic, but what do you mean by his strengths? In what way don't we play to them?

We've scored a small number of headers - Toal and Ashworth spring to mind from open play, Iredale, Vic & Toal from corners - but I'm fairly sure the header from Collins was the first by a striker this season from open play. I don't care how they go in but I feel its a skill we've been lacking for a while. The only other two headers I can recall from open play, by a striker, were Bod's excellent efforts at Pompey and Derby. I can't say any spring to mind from last season either.

And between August and mid April he's literally been in every squad for every league and cup game (maybe missed a very occasional one but I can't recall?), when everyone else has been rested or injured, the only one that comes close to being consistently available is JDC. Having a long term injury last season is no different to Toal, Johnstone, Dempsey, Sheehan, Dan, Vic, CMG the list goes on. Now missing a couple of weeks same as Santos, Jones, Baxter, Williams, Taylor, Ashworth etc, I'm just unsure of the difference.

We haven't lost many at home, but Carlisle's 2 game changing goals were both from this. Their 2nd pen that they scored, and their 2nd goal, both from corners that came to their unmarked players, resulting in a pen and then a 20 yarder deflected into top corner.

That's got to be inaccurate, IE does it regularly, and other teams do too, not just once or twice a game, but 6 or 7 times. Its a tactic to mark the space not the man. Its not like the corners are taken quickly, we can all go for a brew in the time it takes a player to walk over, put his hands up, replace the ball, the players have a grapple, the ref tells them to stop, etc etc - its not an accident that players are left unmarked on the edge, its clearly an instruction, just as not leaving anyone near the halfway line is.

I felt sorry for Forrester in a way, the CB role on the right of a 3 is basically a right back position, that's why Jones looks comfortable there, he's a full back all day long, never a CB. Forrester is a CB, never a right back. Imagine if Santos was asked to play that role, he'd be a fish out of water, as good as he is. If we were defending much of the game eg Barnsley away or holding onto a lead like at Port Vale, Forrester shows his strength. He's never going to be the overlapping full back bombing on like Jones, simply out of position in a game where we have 80% possession or whatever (2nd half) and the opposition sit deep. No need for 3 CBs in that 2nd half, and the Shrewsbury boss knew that.

This isn't just a comment on us but on a number of teams, but I find it puzzling when managers openly pin their colours to the mast of one system and one system only. 5 at the back come hell or high water. Irrespective of who's available to play, who the opposition is, what the score is, who's having a bit of a nightmare on the day, and simply playing into the hands of the opposition who know exactly what you're going to do. How would Shrewsbury have reacted last night if we'd kicked off and changed to 4-4-2, or at least changed to that at H-T? Make it a bit harder, not a bit easier, for the opposition occasionally.

I like JDB too and accept he doesn't always play well (like every striker we have) but how is he a sicknote? Injured last night but not sure when that last happened. Charles, Dan, Vic, Santos etc all sick notes this season in comparison to Bod.

3 of those 4 are carrying an injury but Charles is coming back from one, he looked bloody awful last night so presume he needs game time to get upto speed before the play offs.

I didn't realise Richardson had been potted, surprised he hasn't been given the chance to get them up next season, after the job he did at Wigan. He'll get another L1 job (maybe Wigan at some point). Jamie Reid no doubt following Evans to Rotherham in August.

Agree with your post - that's how we play, rightly or wrongly. I would add that surely there would be less clean headers and virtually no pot shots from the edge of the box if someone was stood on their toes? I get that anyone can beat anyone else in a challenge, but as a minimum you'd expect some physical jostling etc would remove the chance of a "free" header or shot. We just seem to invite it, and just hope the lack of quality at L1 level keeps the ball out of the net - we've seen loads of shots hit high or wide, we aren't playing against great players, but why give them a chance to find out.

I haven't trawled through comments, no doubt its been commented on, but if one thing absolutely baffles me about IEs tactics its the defensive set up at corners. 11 back, so that all the opposition can become attackers with no threat of a breakaway, and yet little or no marking. So Derby profit in the biggest game of our season, and Shrewsbury score a virtual promotion clincher for Derby. At least one other example off top of my head - Wigan's 1st goal here. But even if its just 1 goal a season its enough, on top of the removal of any realistic attempt at a counter attack. It also gives possession back immediately to them if we clear it, so they get another chance to build. Its frustrating to say the least, I'm not having it that these teams would have got the results they got if we'd just chosen to mark men instead of space.

I didn't realise that. Definitely another reason to buy a kids ticket that will hardly ever be used - anyone that can normally do night matches and maybe misses some weekend one's, what a bargain! Especially when 3 or so community day £10 matches are thrown in. If its championship football next season there'll be more night matches too, presumably.

Apart from the "no arguments going forward" bit 😀

I suppose my expectations are fairly low with our LWBs defensively. They are all signed for their attacking play and none are "defender" types. Which explains why Iredale doesn't play LWB, he isn't an attacking type. If we are ahead in a play off (semi 2nd leg, or final) with 15 to go or whatever, I'd hope Iredale would be brought on to theoretically make us more solid (its not going to happen if all subs are decided pre-match though!).

That's a decent point to be fair. And if they haven't reffed us before at least we haven't had chance to upset/wind 'em up 😀

Another "we all see things differently" comment, but after the first (crucial) 10 minutes, I thought he was one of our better players, really took the game to them. As @desperado said, he responded superbly to his part in the goal, and to a generally poor opening. Beat his man time after time, put in some good crosses, set up the goal, and put in one of the crosses of the season in 1st half that was begging to be put in.

You forgot the most important bloke on the pitch - the ref! If we have 3 play off games, you just know the ref's going to be as bad as yesterday/Blackpool away in at least 2 of them, and not in our favour. We need to be better than the opposition, and then a bit more, and expect a crap ref rather than it coming as a surprise. Which at least means not giving him an excuse to send one off or give a pen.

If we're counting Barnsley as a big game, Peterboro would have to included too given they are above them. So make that 7 😀 (Clarke Harris header). The positive is we equalised in all 4 home games and didn't lose any, which to me feels like an improvement on previous seasons. Its the away form that hasn't improved yet (against the better sides).