Sluffy

1 - The intro is on the link provided, you simply scroll back to it. You could simply have Googled it failing that. 2 - There are three pages in respect of where the link opened namely pages 166 and 167 which talks about Mosaic and page 168 about the first goal at the Reebok. I have no idea why the link should show differently to you than it is showing for me? 3 - I suspect the book wasn't checked for footballing facts with it simply being about an old man's recollections of his life and his wish for it to be a personal rather than commercial project. You might consider the interim match to be unforgettable but I certainly don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the games we've played throughout the last twenty odd years even if you may have. 4 - I would not expect the football journalist to be giving his financial thoughts on social media then and if he was as readable as people believe I certainly wouldn't think any click baiting would be required by him to promote his articles or the paper - would you? 5 - I was brought up to believe if you told the truth you had nothing to be worried about. If you are anyone else is pathetic enough to carry an internet agenda/grudge then that's your problem not mine. I posted to help and inform about the Mosaic takeover, you on the other hand posted to point score and inadvertently demean the memory of a deceased 82 year old fellow Wanderer supporter. One of us was acting as a grown up and the other as a petulant child. 6 - A snide remark wishing someone a happy day spent watching/playing something he clearly likes and has even started a thread about? I'm sure he'd be more than delighted if you did give it a bash - hope you don't disappoint him!

You are free to suggest what ever you like but the author clearly states in the introduction that the book is about his life and not Bolton Wanderers. He even states that his not intent for the book to be seen as an history of Bolton Wanderers! It seems to me that you've simply assumed what the book was about from just the title and the THREE pages you've read, without even the merest check to see that your assumption was right in the first place - even though I'd provided the link for you or anyone else to do so! I would view that as getting the basic facts wrong here! Seeing that there was never an attempt on his part to be 100% accurate about BWFC football trivia and excusing a near 80 year old bloke being slightly out with his memory and getting his Tottenham confused with his Arsenal (and forgetting a very forgettable 0-0 interim match) then I doubt Chris or anyone else would have the slightest issue for the old gentleman's recollection to be slightly out. I however would expect a professional football journalist paid to write about these things to be spot on - wouldn't you? For whatever reason you've decided to turn the whole issue away from the Mosaic reverse investment explanation, which it was, to some juvenile attempt to presumably point score against me over a misremembered football team opponent, by a near octogenarian, which was played twenty-two years ago! Whatever floats your boat though I guess. Have a nice day.

No I don't but I do see the irony of someone foolish enough to be jumping to the wrong conclusion based on reading just a couple of pages out of over 200 from the authors autobiography that the book is about his support of the football club - it's not, although that's an important part of it. It is, as all autobiography's are, about an account of his life. There's twenty odd chapters in his book of which only a couple are specifically Wanderers related, the Bolton Wanderers content of it is significantly less than a fifth of it. Seems I have respect for facts not shared by Mr Hayes book critics, as well. For your information Mr Hayes was about 78 years old when he wrote the book, it was first published in 2013, and passed away just four years later at the age of 82, at the Whites Hotel, the day after the Reading match. https://www.witneygazette.co.uk/announcements/deaths/deaths/15632348.Gerald_HAYES/ RIP.

Yes, I do. I provided the link specifically in relation to his comments on Mosaic, the information contained in it is confirmed as per these articles in the Bolton News and the Independent at the time (links below) which I could have equally posted up of Mr Haye's but chose his instead as being a more interesting, insightful and personal read on the matter, which I thought the few readers on here who would actually read the link would enjoy more. Seems pretty sad of you to go to the bother of actually reading the link then go on to post what you did in order to 'score a point' against me for some extremely petty inaccuracy he went on to make on footballing trivia (he said Arsenal when he clearly meant Spurs ffs!) which does not detract in anyway from the Mosaic reverse takeover. I've always held the greatest of respect for your views and comments in the past, I'll know better from now on. Anyway the contemporary Bolton News and the Independent links - https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/6183593.amp/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/bolton-wanderers-agrees-pounds-22m-takeover-by-mosaic-1264945.html

Correct as per usual Chris. The initial link below is to an autobiography of a Wanderers fan and accountant Gerald Hayes who explains what happened briefly at the time leading up to the introduction of the Eddie Davies era. The following two links I've added gives much more context to why it happened and the financial problems that followed. For those not wishing to read the link below, what appears to happen was a cash rich company, quoted on the stock exchange allowed itself to be taken over by the newly established Burnden Leisure by Gordon Hargreaves - hence the 'reverse take over' and allowing BL to become instantly public listed. This was done as an apparent(?) investment opportunity whereby Mosaic was cash rich and used that money to invest in the club. The bloke in charge of Mosaic, David Williams, then became the Chair of BL and another director of Mosaic became BL Group's Finance Director - both getting a huge golden 'hello' bonus for doing all this. Of course it all seemed a bit too good to be true and it ended in tears with the club facing oblivion until Eddie saved us for the first time! Why then did Mosaic/Williams in effect fund the building of the Reebok Stadium (as it was initially named) in partnership with Hargreaves? All seemed a bit odd at the time and I've added a link below from a personal opinion of those events from the writers father from a Vital Bolton article some weeks in advance of Holdsworth and Anderson's takeover. Who says lightening doesn't strike twice? Link to Gerald Hayes autobiography - Tales of a Wanderer https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ce1cAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=bolton+wanderers+mosaic&source=bl&ots=ETZivJ2cyt&sig=ACfU3U3WKZml0XHIch0G8_QyUbIrNYW2kA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPi8fZzvjkAhWNRBUIHfpGDX4Q6AEwG3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=bolton wanderers mosaic&f=false Link to Bolton News article on criticism of David Williams pay packet! - https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/6165789.chairman-defends-100000-pay-packet/ Link to the Vital Bolton article - https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/bwfc-the-dodgy-deal-that-mustnt-be-repeated/

It's not exactly a 'choice' to pay more as such to the creditors, as what was required from FV point of view was submitting their tender based on what they believe would be the successful one but also allowing themselves sufficient funds in their 'pot' to be retained to keep the business solvent for the next 2/3 years. It would seem they were not flushed with money right from the start and the fact that they spoke to creditors and reached agreements for deferring payments for three years would seem to add substance to that view and as such I don't believe they had the financial flexibility to have 'chosen' to pay more even if they had wanted to.

You assume wrongly then as the EFL set's a minimum percentage payment for unsecured creditors (for two or three years), not a sliding scale or whatever you may have been thinking of(?).

My thoughts on this Chris is that the £40m is the funding stream to be drawn from, similarly how Moonshift was the line of credit for Burnden Leisure, the total 'bank' or pot of money if you will, in terms of the purchase and immediate three year running of the club - but also and more significantly the funding for the infrastructure development that will be the core behind why the hotel was key to the purchase. So in other words two completely separate funding plans/stages, the first to purchase the club, hotel and three year running of the football team - hence why creditors are having to wait, with the second 'ring fenced' funds, to finance whatever the land/property development entails, kicking in only after the purchase had been completed - and not being part of the original purchase financing at all. I would imagine whatever the planned development is, is completed and sold off within the three year time frame with the expected sale bringing in sufficient to repay the initial capital (for the second stage) with profit used to settle the outstanding creditors from the initial club purchase and thus leaving the core FV members (Sharon and whoever else) with the business with no creditors other than themselves and a club being run financially sustainably, to be taken forward or sold on depending on whatever Sharon's plans are at that point. I would further imagine the land/property development would in some way directly effect the stadium and hotel and in may be that they are ultimately sold off. As Michael James/PBP has his money secured on the hotel, then he/they may take the money and leave the consortium at that stage (or at least end PBP's interests as such).

Are you for real? I'm sure someone has not randomly stuck in £40m without a plan to at least safeguard their investment and get a return on it. That certainly won't be on the off chance that we make £20m plus back on the playing side inside three years. As for your list of conceivability's, it's also conceivable that Lord Lucan will be winning next years Grand National on Shergar but that certainly doesn't mean it will be happening. Have a nice day down at the Bolton Futsal Club

No, but I'm certain many have pointed out that you are a stupid one. Have a nice day.

Thank you but I enjoy the complete package of Bolton Wanderers and that includes the financial aspects. I'm pleased for you and everybody else who are happy to concentrate solely about on the pitch activities and not wonder why we have £40m available to be invested in a club probably heading for the fourth tier next season, and which is due for repayment the season after that. It's not going to go away however, so something big is definitely in the wind. Aren't you in the least bit curious as to what it might be, I know I am? I'm sorry though if I, Custard and a few others of us, by having an interest and curiosity in such things - and you not - seems to annoy you in someway? It certainly isn't meant to.

If you or anyone else wants to live in a football world bubble that is entirely up to you but in the real world the company that owns the club has to trade and that involves finance - there's simply no getting away from that - like it or not. It's interesting to see Iles answer to a question in his match day blog about this matter today - Iles reply (from his blog) - 1:00pm When it is ready to write. But to correct you - it's £40m of loan notes. The current business plan uses 52 per cent. So I do indeed think my speculation is totally proved to be reasoned as FV certainly are not able to repay £20m plus from playing three years in the bottom tiers of the league, that it would appear that people obviously do know what FV are planning (they would not put up the money if they didn't) and FV have obviously let some of the plan be known if the least sharpest newshound, Iles from the Bolton News kennel, is already on the scent of it! Apart from that have a nice day.

Do you honestly think that Iles was completely unaware of a public meeting which included the clubs top paid employee, the manager and his assistant and the Hotel Manager? Don't you think he might follow the football clubs twitter account - that DID tweet about the meeting? Don't you think as someone PAID to report on the club, he might have bothered himself to attend the clubs 'official' supporters body and maybe even done a feature on Emma Beaugeard (her first public meeting in capacity as the clubs CEO) and also Suzanne Speak (good PR for feature for the hotel which was after all so crucial in the long and protracted take over of the club? Even if you don't think he should have automatically tweeted and advertised the public meeting without being asked (do we know for sure he wasn't?) don't you think he at least should have attended in his capacity of the local newspapers football reporter - particularly following all that happened over the last several months? Extremely strange then he didn't, didn't get anyone to go in his place, didn't bother to retweet either the BWSA tweet, or the clubs, retweet of theirs, didn't make any comments in his articles (or at least the ones I've seen) of last nights meeting - and to all intents and purposes completely 'blanked' the BWSA event of yesterday. Certainly seems very strange behaviour to me. Do you think he will completely ignore the next ST meeting - if of course they ever have one?

Correct. As far as I'm aware the BWSA is the 'recognised' and 'official' fan body in the eyes of the club - but is totally independent from it - and thus why it would not be up to the club to notify individual ST holders of the event, in just the same way they wouldn't notify Season Ticket holders of any Supporters Trust meetings. The big difference in terms of getting the message of the meeting out was that of the local papers Chief Football Writer complete and utter silence on the matter, either by twitter - not event by means of a retweet - or flagging the event up in the paper. He didn't attend last night and retweet just one comment on the night after the event had finished. The event I remind you had the clubs manager, assistant manager, the CEO of Football Ventures, the Hotel Manager and the clubs Chaplin present. Compare that to how Iles actively promotes (and attends!!!) the Supporters Trusts meetings (which to be fair are about as frequent of Preston Guilds these days - any sight of their long outstanding AGM/elections - or similarly over due accounts? No, thought not!), which not only have NO club representation in attendance but have frequently been used to be negative towards the club owner and (more to the point) our future saviours, Mike James, FV and Eddie Davies Trust. Another shining example of Iles utter bias and total lack of fair and responsible reporting to me - but of course I am totally obsessed by him apparently - or so I am told by some.

The BWSA had a public meeting tonight with guest speakers Hill and Flitcroft, Emma Beaugeard (Chief Exec of FV) and Suzanne Speak (the manager of the hotel). Three of the things that came out of it -

Yes it is speculation, but more plausible I suggest than a residential football stadium. What's wrong with speculation anyway, don't we speculate what the scores going to be, who will be in the team, who we would like to sign, who our next manager will be, whether the hot dogs will be buttered now we have a new owner? Isn't part of the fun trying to work out what is likely to happen next? As for whether it has anything to do with us, no its not - but if they did sell the stadium wouldn't we all be talking about it - even though we've just agreed it isn't our business? Sorry if my reasoned speculation seemed to have upset you or anyone else in anyway, it certainly wasn't intended to do so.

A residential football stadium situated on an out of town retail site? Never mind about how and when they would be able to undertake such a massive refit scheme with the club playing there over a nine month period each year and the up front costs required before even a single unit is sold? A wild guess indeed I would think. Would it not be more logical to think that Gartside being appointed directly to focus on the hotel (as the Chief Operating Officer) that the plan might be hotel related in someway - possibly by building an annex to provide more rooms on one of the car parks perhaps, funded by a sale and leaseback of the stadium for football purposes?

Err, thank you for your comments I guess, although I'm not absolutely sure of the point you are making from events of 20 odd years ago? The point I was attempting to originally make was that a financially secured club determines ultimately what happens on the pitch - Christ have we learned nothing at all from Bury's demise and our squeaky bum escape from the same fate? In the league we might have started on minus 12 points but as a business the club in real life also started on minus £20m, which needs to be found and paid back when it becomes due in three years time. It's not unreasonable to believe that wont be achievable by footballing endeavours alone - with or without a Rioch or Allardyce - particularly at third/fourth tier level? Bury got promoted last year remember for all the good it eventually did them in the end! So either we need to have a benevolent owner in the Eddie Davies mould willing to defer or write the amount off, or more than likely develop and sell assets such as the stadium and/or land. I humbly suggest therefore that the financial driver for the business is more likely to be focused away from the pitch than on it. That's all I've attempted to say.

Keep up - that was the very point I was making??? We aren't going to clear a profit of £20m plus on the football side so we either have another benevolent owner who is willing to fund the club from their own personal wealth as Davies did or there has to be some sort of development and sale of assets such as land and/or stadium. If people don't want to be bothered about the financial side of the club then that's fine but the reality is that unless we have found another Eddie that the financial side will directly determine what is achievable player wise and happening on the pitch - in regards to servicing and repaying the £20m loan as well as trading at a loss/breakeven/small profit for the next three years. We aren't going to be selling the academy kids (no matter how good we believe they are) for millions whilst most of them are still under the age of twenty one and playing third/fourth tier level football and we won't be able to throw much money into the transfer pot to buy ourselves out of the divisions. Our financial position will out of necessity overshadow anything that can and does happen on the pitch. I'm not trying to be negative but simply trying to explain the reality of where we now are. Personally I've always enjoyed our progress from the lower divisions going up than the many years we've had in the past clinging on to staying in higher leagues and plunging down them.

There is the little matter of the repayment of a £20m loan against assets (£40m if you believed the football financial guru Maguire) due in three years time, that no one seems to have taken into account. I would suggest we certainly aren't going to be clearing a profit in excess of £20m (plus interest) in the next three years whilst the club is floundering in the third /fourth tiers of the football league.

Custard is correct in so far as we don't really know who owns FV. To be an owner you must have shares in the company and although Sharon and Mike James both held two shares each of the allotted six shares issued before the 27th August, on that day a further 2,749,994 shares were issued (making 2,750,000 in total) of which 1,750,000 were allocated - meaning someone must have bought them. As you have to declare if you own over 25% of shares in a company - and nobody has made such a declaration - then it therefore follows that a minimum of at least four people or business own a quarter stake in FV. Of course it may be even five or more individuals or business with ownership shares, we don't really know who owns what, other than no individual or business owns outright more than a quarter of the shares in FV. It's a reasonable assumption that Sharon and MJ are shareholders BUT we don't actually know that now for certain. I would like to add a personal note of thanks to those of have sent their kind wishes to me. I much appreciate your kind thoughts.

Thank you all indeed for your kind words and best wishes. Part of growing old is to come to terms with mortality. I intend to be around for many years yet and will be back and posting on here when things have resolved themselves a little clearer for me. I will still view the site and chip in to help on Nuts over the forthcoming months but I wont have the time I had for a while to come to make and post all those supposition's I apparently had based on no more than Googling searches and Company House records nor my so called obsession on our local papers most esteemed journalist and his best buddies the ST. I am sure the people who complained about their thumb aching due to swiping over my lengthy posts on their smart phones nor my camp following trolls will miss me at all but I'm sure they won't let their ignorance or hatred go to waste and find someone else to focus their bile upon. Let's end on a positive and look forward to the new dawn of FV financially stabilising the club and leading us forward (and upwards hopefully!) from now on, at least that's something we should all be agreeing about. Again thank you to all for your kind comments and au revoir from me for now.

Chemotherapy if you must know. Does it make you feel really pleased with yourself trolling me now?

Yes I'm sure that's exactly what you meant to say when you said this earlier... Anyway adios amigo.

Thanks. I'm very happy with the new owners and I don't live in the past but clearly others on here do. I'm as surprised as you to be told out of the blue to 'move on' and simply enquired from what and to where - indeed my only contribution prior to that was posting up the Radio Manchester sound bite tweet - how could that possibly have triggered anything off? However that in turn brought out the usual suspects and that's resulted in the normal shite. I don't know where you or anyone else seem to think I'm not looking forward - of course I am, isn't everyone? I'm not that stupid as to not know that some folks are trolling deliberately for a reaction but it's also clear that one or two seem to be obsessed with anything I post - and in tonight's case - obsessed even when I haven't posted - which kicked off tonight's 'fun'. As it happens I've commitments that won't allow me too much free time coming up, so although that won't start for a few weeks yet maybe now is a good time to withdraw from posting on here and letting you get by without me. I'm sure you will all manage just fine, although the sites word count may drop considerably though. So thank you to anyone who may have enjoyed my postings and to everyone else, I'm sorry that words on a page seems to have offended you so much? Unless I'm culled or something I intend to return to posting nearer Christmas time but for now au revoir. Have a happy Autumn to all!