Moderators Casino Posted October 31, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 31, 2011 You mean the strategy of reducing the wage bill, only spending what we bring in from player sales, refusing to be held to ransom by Elmander and accepting an offer of ?2M for a player who was out of contract and would have left for nothing at the end of the season? What's 'bizarre' about that? the fact it's all ending in tears? aye, not bizarre, but oh so sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL2wanderer Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 At least in these challenging economic times the Directors can pay themselves over ?700K and take ?340K as a BONUS? AND ?124k in pension contributions ?110m in debt and still paying bonuses? only in the crazy world of football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster Ste Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You mean the strategy of reducing the wage bill, only spending what we bring in from player sales, refusing to be held to ransom by Elmander and accepting an offer of ?2M for a player who was out of contract and would have left for nothing at the end of the season? What's 'bizarre' about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster Ste Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The fact we paid 20m for Taylor, Cahill, Elmander & Steinnson and will probably bring back 7m if we are lucky. Overall outlay is probably 35-40m on those 4, any wonder we are 110m in debt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The wibbly wobbly world of football club accounts. Any other business in the uk would have been shut down by now if these figures are right. 2 things leap out immediately: 1, if our squad is worth ?60 million, then so is my car. 2, we get relegated and stay down for 2 seasons and we will be using the Reebok as pasture for local livestock. We need to stay in the prem. disagree it's being the prem that is costing us around ?10m a season Let's get out while we can, it just ain't worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyoneawalker Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the link to the accounts much worse than I thought from the previous info given - summary; - we did make a ?26m loss in the year including ?13m losses on player trading which includes the writing down of players under contract at ?13.9m so looks like after adding this back we're about B/E on player transfers - Our balance sheet is negatvie by ?85.5m - ?61m of which has been accumulated in the last 2 years - We owe about ?110m of which ?100m is to ED and ED has assured he'll not call the debt in in the next 12 months he took ?5m in interest and we owe him ?3m for a "player success fee" - big worry read the note on page 09 re going concern - for anyone who's not aware of what that means it's the auditors opinion that we can fund the business over the next 12 months - it does not make good reading bearing in mind the directors will have put the best spin on this possible - I'd read in to this that if we go down we are in seriously seriously deep shit - we're currently in negotiations for additional funding and the directors are confident we can get it, if not they have contigency plans, what they are is not stated, so i hate to say it but we're not necessarily in charge of our own destiny very dodgy ground As long as ED doesnt call in the loans we're ok but the going concern note is a worry we spend more than we earn and without a bank or ED to keep plugging the gap we'd have to reduce costs very significantly - the only reason i can see ED letting this continue is it suits his tax avoidance policies and or he's looking at it with a philanthropic smile.............in my humble opinion god help us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the link to the accounts much worse than I thought from the previous info given - summary; - we did make a ?26m loss in the year including ?13m losses on player trading which includes the writing down of players under contract at ?13.9m so looks like after adding this back we're about B/E on player transfers - Our balance sheet is negatvie by ?85.5m - ?61m of which has been accumulated in the last 2 years - We owe about ?110m of which ?100m is to ED and ED has assured he'll not call the debt in in the next 12 months he took ?5m in interest and we owe him ?3m for a "player success fee" - big worry read the note on page 09 re going concern - for anyone who's not aware of what that means it's the auditors opinion that we can fund the business over the next 12 months - it does not make good reading bearing in mind the directors will have put the best spin on this possible - I'd read in to this that if we go down we are in seriously seriously deep shit - we're currently in negotiations for additional funding and the directors are confident we can get it, if not they have contigency plans, what they are is not stated, so i hate to say it but we're not necessarily in charge of our own destiny very dodgy ground As long as ED doesnt call in the loans we're ok but the going concern note is a worry we spend more than we earn and without a bank or ED to keep plugging the gap we'd have to reduce costs very significantly - the only reason i can see ED letting this continue is it suits his tax avoidance policies and or he's looking at it with a philanthropic smile.............in my humble opinion god help us It's at this time each year I add: I hope that Eddie lives forever, or we have him well covered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 disagree it's being the prem that is costing us around ?10m a season Let's get out while we can, it just ain't worth it do you not remember that last time we saw division 1 football at the reebok?! it was fucking embarasing,much more embarasing than anything we could witness in the premiership. birmingham city at home with 11,668 fans on?...do you really want to go back to this? getting raped by rodney jack infront of 12k? and dont forget this time we wouldnt have big sam and his big ideas to birng us back and take us on another ten year trip to europe and back. getting relegated would be a complete disaster for all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YATESY Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The Accounts must be amongst the worst around. ?26M loss in the year on sales of ?68M takes some doing but as has been said, football finances live in a bubble that isn't real business. Not sure if it's been mentioned but have we finally reached the bottom of Eddie's pockets? Other Loans (which includes monies owed to him) did increase by ?15M in the year but also on the rise again is Bank Loans, up from ?0.8M to ?5.8M. Anyhow, ?99M of the debt is owed to Eddie, so as long as Eddie stays around then there is nowt to worry about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyoneawalker Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The Accounts must be amongst the worst around. ?26M loss in the year on sales of ?68M takes some doing but as has been said, football finances live in a bubble that isn't real business. Not sure if it's been mentioned but have we finally reached the bottom of Eddie's pockets? Other Loans (which includes monies owed to him) did increase by ?15M in the year but also on the rise again is Bank Loans, up from ?0.8M to ?5.8M. Anyhow, ?99M of the debt is owed to Eddie, so as long as Eddie stays around then there is nowt to worry about! That doesnt take in to account the fact we curently dont have the funding to meet the bills in the next 12 months - that's the pressing worry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyoneawalker Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Worst case - Eddie and the banks wont give us any more funding so we have to cut our cloth and we get relegated as a result - revenues plummet Eddie calls time we go in to admin clearing the creditors to an extent - milan mandaric buys us for a quid having got Sheff Wed in the prem and does his thing again to sell us on to some south east asian numpty and so the idiotic world of football roles on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globetrotter Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 The fact we paid 20m for Taylor, Cahill, Elmander & Steinnson and will probably bring back 7m if we are lucky. Overall outlay is probably 35-40m on those 4, any wonder we are 110m in debt! Most of that was funded by the sales of Anelka (profit of about 6 mil) and Nolan (profit of 4 mill). Our net spend on transfers for the past 10 yrs runs at about 3 mill per season so I don't think this is the problem. Out of control wages and a hotel that makes no money are more of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the link to the accounts much worse than I thought from the previous info given - summary; - we did make a ?26m loss in the year including ?13m losses on player trading which includes the writing down of players under contract at ?13.9m so looks like after adding this back we're about B/E on player transfers - Our balance sheet is negatvie by ?85.5m - ?61m of which has been accumulated in the last 2 years - We owe about ?110m of which ?100m is to ED and ED has assured he'll not call the debt in in the next 12 months he took ?5m in interest and we owe him ?3m for a "player success fee" - big worry read the note on page 09 re going concern - for anyone who's not aware of what that means it's the auditors opinion that we can fund the business over the next 12 months - it does not make good reading bearing in mind the directors will have put the best spin on this possible - I'd read in to this that if we go down we are in seriously seriously deep shit - we're currently in negotiations for additional funding and the directors are confident we can get it , if not they have contigency plans, what they are is not stated, so i hate to say it but we're not necessarily in charge of our own destiny very dodgy ground As long as ED doesnt call in the loans we're ok but the going concern note is a worry we spend more than we earn and without a bank or ED to keep plugging the gap we'd have to reduce costs very significantly - the only reason i can see ED letting this continue is it suits his tax avoidance policies and or he's looking at it with a philanthropic smile.............in my humble opinion god help us Find that comment very interesting and no one else seems to have picked up on this, I wonder what this extra funding could be? cannot see any bank being interested so it must be either a new director/benefactor or a new owner outright. Edited October 31, 2011 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster Ste Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 What's the net spend over the last 4 years?? We've lost over 80m in that time and due to appalling handling of contracts the plan to make money on the initial outlay of 4 years ago is now up the creak without paddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 That doesnt take in to account the fact we curently dont have the funding to meet the bills in the next 12 months - that's the pressing worry Do they not just mean that we cannot guarantee that we would be able to meet the bills should we be relegated in May or does it mean we cannot meet the bills if we stay up or go down? I dont think we are in as bad a position as a Pompey say because they owed money to everyman and his dog and a few of them pressed for winding up orders etc. Eddie Davies is in a catch 22 position with us, if he calls in his money we would be lucky to get together 25% of it through a player fire sale and this would lead to certain Relegation and he wouldn't get the rest of his money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Find that comment very interesting and no one else seems to have picked up on this, I wonder what this extra funding could be? cannot see any bank being interested so it must be either a new director/benefactor or a new owner outright. What about Warburtons? That Brett Warburton fella is still on the board and the times rich list had the family wealth at around ?600m last time I looked. Get your cash out and stick another tier on the East stand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globetrotter Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 What's the net spend over the last 4 years?? We've lost over 80m in that time and due to appalling handling of contracts the plan to make money on the initial outlay of 4 years ago is now up the creak without paddle. Over ?20m so I agree to a point. But some of that will presumably be recovered. In the same period our wages have gone up nearly ?30m per year and revenue by just over half of that .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Over ?20m so I agree to a point. But some of that will presumably be recovered. In the same period our wages have gone up nearly ?30m per year and revenue by just over half of that .. Didnt Megson say that he had to come in and cut the wage bill? doesnt look like he reduced it from recent accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globetrotter Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Eddie Davies is in a catch 22 position with us, if he calls in his money we would be lucky to get together 25% of it through a player fire sale and this would lead to certain Relegation and he wouldn't get the rest of his money back. And that is the only crumb of comfort. Whilst he drawing his 5% as others have said he should be happy enough. It's a kind of reverse of the old saying that if you owe the bank ?1m the bank owns you but if you owe the bank ?100m you own the bank ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazBob Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 This has to be the most depressing thread I've read on here yet. I don't understand why anyone is even bothering to go to the game this weekend let alone travel to West Brom, after all, if you believe everything on here we won't have a club this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wanderer Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 What about Warburtons? That Brett Warburton fella is still on the board and the times rich list had the family wealth at around ?600m last time I looked. Get your cash out and stick another tier on the East stand! "There here, there there. They're every fucking where....EMPTY SEATS! EMPTY SEATS!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 "There here, there there. They're every fucking where....EMPTY SEATS! EMPTY SEATS!" Would look good if a decent concert was on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wanderer Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Only chance of filling it with the current shower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonk Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I 'm just releived that so many financial brains visit this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 At least in these challenging economic times the Directors can pay themselves over ?700K and take ?340K as a BONUS? AND ?124k in pension contributions ?110m in debt and still paying bonuses? only in the crazy world of football! Thats not so true, there are crazy bonus's being paid to directors in loss making companies in all sorts of business and some a lot more than these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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