Sweep Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Germany gets a rebate... It's OK saying they get a rebate.....it only means something if we know how much they pay in in the first place. They may pay more in than us, they may pay in less than us, I don't know. I suppose the real number we need to see if how much per head, each country is "up or down" on the deal. These figures in isolation don't really mean very much at all I'm listening to 5Live this morning, and I'm sure somebody just said that if Labour win the next general election, they won't even give us a referendum for getting out of Europe.....surely that can't be right can it? - how can we not be given any sort of say on the matter (I may have heard it wrong to be honest ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It's OK saying they get a rebate.....it only means something if we know how much they pay in in the first place. They may pay more in than us, they may pay in less than us, I don't know. I suppose the real number we need to see if how much per head, each country is "up or down" on the deal. These figures in isolation don't really mean very much at all I'm listening to 5Live this morning, and I'm sure somebody just said that if Labour win the next general election, they won't even give us a referendum for getting out of Europe.....surely that can't be right can it? - how can we not be given any sort of say on the matter (I may have heard it wrong to be honest ) They have said they will only hold a referendum if Brussels try and take more powers from us which they wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 They have said they will only hold a referendum if Brussels try and take more powers from us which they wont. Fair enough. it will be interesting to see what would happen if a referendum was held today - I think it might be fairly close, but we would probably choose to stay in....just. If/When we do get a say, it'll be very interesting to hear the arguments from both sides. Generally we hear reasons why we shouldn't be in on a daily basis, very rarely do we hear what good it does for us (and I'm guessing it must do some good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 They have said they will only hold a referendum if Brussels try and take more powers from us which they wont. Why won't they take more powers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites man Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Google "Mike Read UKIP Calypso". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Clearly this backdate is rediculous but using it as an argument to get out of the EU is dangerous IMO My firm produces and supplies food products with a large proportion going to EU countries If we are not in then production fucks off over there and 500 production lads are on the dole It's all well and good looking at one part of it but just blindly saying lets get out will cost a heck of a lot of folk their jobs and in return those job losses mean less tax coming in / more benefits going out Cash benefits of being a member of the EU stretch much further than just a simple graph showing contributions & rebates. Most of our exports go to Europe, job losses would soon add up after the big global companies relocate. London as a sub economy puts in much more of it's fair share within the UK, should they go seperate? Not in my opinion as they rely on the UK market to drive their growth & success - it's a good analogy for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 If we are not in then production fucks off over there and 500 production lads are on the dole How many of those 500 are foreigners working in the UK? The remainder will pick-up jobs in other industries once the rest of the foreigners have fucked off home. The NHS will be better off. And so will the national football team!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankietheman Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Those of us who can remember voting in the 70's voted for simply a free trading agreement. Since then it has incrementally sought to increase it's influence and power base to the detriment of member states and in particular the northern European states. The issue is more than about economics it is about democracy and the quality of governance. The EU has already given us Esperanto money (the Euro) and is hell bent on giving us Esperanto government (political union). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It's OK saying they get a rebate.....it only means something if we know how much they pay in in the first place. They may pay more in than us, they may pay in less than us, I don't know. I suppose the real number we need to see if how much per head, each country is "up or down" on the deal. These figures in isolation don't really mean very much at all I'm listening to 5Live this morning, and I'm sure somebody just said that if Labour win the next general election, they won't even give us a referendum for getting out of Europe.....surely that can't be right can it? - how can we not be given any sort of say on the matter (I may have heard it wrong to be honest ) Absolutely right this is a kickback, an adjustment to the main numbers. It's not what we pay overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Those of us who can remember voting in the 70's voted for simply a free trading agreement. Since then it has incrementally sought to increase it's influence and power base to the detriment of member states and in particular the northern European states. The issue is more than about economics it is about democracy and the quality of governance. The EU has already given us Esperanto money (the Euro) and is hell bent on giving us Esperanto government (political union). Is the whole raison d'etre not 'ever closer union'? Which is IMO simply incompatible with how the UK public feel about Europe. Tell you what though, the demographic shift we'll see with EU migration (i.e. Brits emigrating and Euros coming here), will make 'us' less euro sceptic as time passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Is the whole raison d'etre not 'ever closer union'? Which is IMO simply incompatible with how the UK public feel about Europe. Tell you what though, the demographic shift we'll see with EU migration (i.e. Brits emigrating and Euros coming here), will make 'us' less euro sceptic as time passes. raison d'etre is on the ww banned list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankietheman Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It is certainly the case now but not what was voted for originally. The whole shooting match is a creeping cancer on the UK and to a lesser extent (Germany excepted) on other member states. Anyone who feels that we don't need a vote on this wants to give their head a good shake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It is certainly the case now but not what was voted for originally. The whole shooting match is a creeping cancer on the UK and to a lesser extent (Germany excepted) on other member states. Anyone who feels that we don't need a vote on this wants to give their head a good shake. Totally agree, but the devil will be in the detail if there is a vote. Because I think we could and should remain in a trading bloc, as originally voted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 raison d'etre is on the ww banned list. Sorry, I was pulled up for 'mano e mano' recently too (not by you). Is there a list somewhere?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 How many of those 500 are foreigners working in the UK? The remainder will pick-up jobs in other industries once the rest of the foreigners have fucked off home. The NHS will be better off. So if we get out of Europe then we have to repatriate all foreign types - fucking hell, that would be fun Also, would the NHS be better off. I think if you took out all the foreigners currently working in our hospitals, I don't think you would be left with a right lot of staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 So if we get out of Europe then we have to repatriate all foreign types - fucking hell, that would be fun Also, would the NHS be better off. I think if you took out all the foreigners currently working in our hospitals, I don't think you would be left with a right lot of staff I imagine a hell of a lot of immigrants have had children, or got married, in the UK - so they will be able to stay. We might even offer everyone employed here at the time citizenship, who knows. A lot of the NHS staff are commonwealth immigrants (I think), not all EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I imagine a hell of a lot of immigrants have had children, or got married, in the UK - so they will be able to stay. We might even offer everyone employed here at the time citizenship, who knows. A lot of the NHS staff are commonwealth immigrants (I think), not all EU. I just think it's going to be very difficult "sending back" people - in fact it just wouldn't happen. I guess at least we could stop anymore arriving, unless they are "skilled" which wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The only people we would want to send back are criminals. Which we are currently unable to do under the EU. We'd still have immigration, rightly. But we would have more control over who we get. Rightly. No-one is going to be sending anyone back. Norway is not in the EU and has lots of immigration. And lots of trade with the rest of Europe incidentally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledwhite2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The only people we would want to send back are criminals. Which we are currently unable to do under the EU. We'd still have immigration, rightly. But we would have more control over who we get. Rightly. No-one is going to be sending anyone back. Norway is not in the EU and has lots of immigration. And lots of trade with the rest of Europe incidentally. Would any leave of their own volition? Do you think they'd be granted a kind of dual UK / EU citizenship? Lots of EU immigrants go back after a few years anyway, there's a lot of churn in the 650k Poles who are here at any one time, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted October 24, 2014 Site Supporter Share Posted October 24, 2014 Funny how all the rebates we've had from the EU have never made the headlines, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Tate Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Would any leave of their own volition? Do you think they'd be granted a kind of dual UK / EU citizenship? Lots of EU immigrants go back after a few years anyway, there's a lot of churn in the 650k Poles who are here at any one time, I believe. Lots of people have dual citizenship, it needn't be an EU thing. To be honest I don't see that leaving the EU would provoke an exodus. I would hope not anyway. We would still be an attractive country to migrate to. That's a good thing. Funny how all the rebates we've had from the EU have never made the headlines, isn't it? Probably because they are irrelevant compared to what we have contributed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Sorry, I was pulled up for 'mano e mano' recently too (not by you). Is there a list somewhere?! No, don't be silly. If there was a list, you'd be able to avoid using foreign words. Not telling which ones are banned gives me carte Blanche ( ) to pull you on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevieb Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Au contraire Trafford, you know decisions like this aren't just yours and are made by the committee, made up of those lucky enough to have access to the itk section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Funny how all the rebates we've had from the EU have never made the headlines, isn't it? because they were rebates of what we had already paid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted October 24, 2014 Site Supporter Share Posted October 24, 2014 because they were rebates of what we had already paid! If your bank sent you a letter saying "We have over-charged you for a loan, here is a cheque for the money we owe you." you'd be well chuffed. If they sent you a letter saying "We have under-charged you for a loan, here is a bill for the money you owe us." you'd probably update your facebook status with "Fuming". You can't have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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