Politics

[royal white]

He 100% knew he was going to lose the bet before he made it, hence him making it 

[mickbrown]

You do seem to have a fascination with Cheese and arses

[fatolive]

34 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Can anybody remind me of what the original Cheese/banana bet was - and does the prospect of an extension to the deal alter it in any way? 

 

33 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

We leave; banana up bum

 

the transitionnperiod is after we have left, so no bearing

Thought it was along the lines of it won’t be sorted by 2020 and that was the bet.

may be wrong, sure if it was that he’d be able to find it and argue the point no doubt ! 

[Casino]

6 hours ago, Spider said:

Today, anyone of us could travel unhindered across the border in NI

After Brexit, it would look something like this, which seems like a right doddle..

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/cyprus/safety-and-security

 

This paragraph is particularly cheery:

 

British and other foreign nationals who have entered Cyprus through the north (such as via Ercan airport) are considered by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to have entered Cyprus through an illegal port of entry. The Government of the Republic of Cyprus reserves the right to fine you for illegal entry if you cross into the south, or decline you entry into or exit from the Republic.

seamless, i thjink thats called

seamless

[Guest]

A view from the Czech republic

https://brexitcentral.com/european-commissions-negotiating-mindset-dictated-emotions-rather-pragmatic-politics/

[Guest]

Remainers seem more able to listen to and believe the EU rhetoric, which is most disappointing.

[bwfcfan5]

5 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Remainers seem more able to listen to and believe the EU rhetoric, which is most disappointing.

Yet you are sourcing things from Brexit central.

The EU has agreed to our chequers proposal, apart from the NI backstop. Where they say NI should either stay in the CU or there should be a hard border, unless we can find a solution that preserves their rules. If you recall we signed up to this until the DUP intervention that meant May was unable to go any further.

We had reached agreement on the NI issue until our own internal politics scuooered it. That isn’t the EU’s fault. They’ve offered a huge amount of flexibility in allowing NI to remain in CU separately. Our own politics has prevented a solution. Since June it has been on us to find a solution that is workable, and acceptable to our own Parliament and political processes. The fact we can’t is entirely our problem. Anyone who believes this has anything to do with EU intransigence or a desire to keep us in, gets zero respect from me because it shows a complete lack of understanding about what is actually happening. 

May agreed a solution but the DUP scuppered it. Perhaps she should just tell them to fuck off? That would be one way out of this. But to do that she’d have to work very closely with Labour. And Labour have offered several times but again she’s not done this. Whatever happens now this has been a huge failure. And the rhetoric that we are holding our nerve for a better deal is absolute fucking nonsense. We’ve agreed the stuff that we could be holding our nerve over. This isn’t about that. A solution has to be found and doing so means May has to lose a group of MPs from her party or the DUP or both. 

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

Can anybody remind me of what the original Cheese/banana bet was - and does the prospect of an extension to the deal alter it in any way? 

I originally said we'd still be in the EU in 2020 because there was no way it could be sorted by then, and the only other option was to crash out with no deal 2 years after Article 50 was triggered. I didn't think even this shambolic shower of a government would be insane enough to go down that route, but I was wrong. Banana is already bought, so it should be easy enough to get up my arse next March. Might need a funnel though. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Cheese

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

You do seem to have a fascination with Cheese and arses

I've hired a German camera crew to film for a 'niche' website and I don't want it to go to waste.

[Casino]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Yet you are sourcing things from Brexit central.

The EU has agreed to our chequers proposal, apart from the NI backstop. Where they say NI should either stay in the CU or there should be a hard border, unless we can find a solution that preserves their rules. If you recall we signed up to this until the DUP intervention that meant May was unable to go any further.

We had reached agreement on the NI issue until our own internal politics scuooered it. That isn’t the EU’s fault. They’ve offered a huge amount of flexibility in allowing NI to remain in CU separately. Our own politics has prevented a solution. Since June it has been on us to find a solution that is workable, and acceptable to our own Parliament and political processes. The fact we can’t is entirely our problem. Anyone who believes this has anything to do with EU intransigence or a desire to keep us in, gets zero respect from me because it shows a complete lack of understanding about what is actually happening. 

May agreed a solution but the DUP scuppered it. Perhaps she should just tell them to fuck off? That would be one way out of this. But to do that she’d have to work very closely with Labour. And Labour have offered several times but again she’s not done this. Whatever happens now this has been a huge failure. And the rhetoric that we are holding our nerve for a better deal is absolute fucking nonsense. We’ve agreed the stuff that we could be holding our nerve over. This isn’t about that. A solution has to be found and doing so means May has to lose a group of MPs from her party or the DUP or both. 

Agree with much of that but NI being treated diffently to GB is no different than Denmark and Greenland

[Spider]

It's all going according to plan

[Duck Egg]

A couple of recent quotes on here 

'No deal is a disaster for us'

'We'd be insane to go down this route'

I'm no fan of May or many of the Brexit suporting MPs, but aren't these folk the experts, getting expert advice from civil servants?

If all the signs were pointing to it being insane and a complete disaster no MP would go near Brexit.  Likewise, if Brexit was going to be all milk and honey then no Remainer would be piping up with any objections.

Is the outcome likely to be somewhere in the middle? 

[leigh white]

3 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

A couple of recent quotes on here 

'No deal is a disaster for us'

'We'd be insane to go down this route'

I'm no fan of May or many of the Brexit suporting MPs, but aren't these folk the experts, getting expert advice from civil servants?

If all the signs were pointing to it being insane and a complete disaster no MP would go near Brexit.  Likewise, if Brexit was going to be all milk and honey then no Remainer would be piping up with any objections.

Is the outcome likely to be somewhere in the middle? 

To be honest, I don't think anybody has a fucking clue to the answer.

[Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

 

Is the outcome likely to be somewhere in the middle? 

No. "Somewhere in the middle" is not possible, for a multitude of reasons. We've already gone over the edge. You might as well ignore everything you read about Brexit from now until March. It's meaningless. The consequences are going to be horrendous, but it will be "all the EU's fault".

Edited October 18, 2018 by Cheese

[bwfcfan5]

2 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

A couple of recent quotes on here 

'No deal is a disaster for us'

'We'd be insane to go down this route'

I'm no fan of May or many of the Brexit suporting MPs, but aren't these folk the experts, getting expert advice from civil servants?

If all the signs were pointing to it being insane and a complete disaster no MP would go near Brexit.  Likewise, if Brexit was going to be all milk and honey then no Remainer would be piping up with any objections.

Is the outcome likely to be somewhere in the middle? 

That’s a misread. No Brexiteer has taken any responsibility. Boris could have toppled May. Why hasn’t he? Because he knows this is a mess and there are no easy answers.

Why is May so desperate for a deal? She could play hardball. But hasn’t because her own governments impact assessments of no deal that were kept secret and only shown to MPs are so bad that she ruled out that prospect a year ago, and will do anything to avoid it. 

If it goes tits up the Brexit mob will blame May. They are hiding. If they really thought this was deliverable they’d have ridden in on their white horses to claim the glory. Not like they are a shy and retiring lot normally. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Yet you are sourcing things from Brexit central.

The EU has agreed to our chequers proposal, apart from the NI backstop. Where they say NI should either stay in the CU or there should be a hard border, unless we can find a solution that preserves their rules. If you recall we signed up to this until the DUP intervention that meant May was unable to go any further.

We had reached agreement on the NI issue until our own internal politics scuooered it. That isn’t the EU’s fault. They’ve offered a huge amount of flexibility in allowing NI to remain in CU separately. Our own politics has prevented a solution. Since June it has been on us to find a solution that is workable, and acceptable to our own Parliament and political processes. The fact we can’t is entirely our problem. Anyone who believes this has anything to do with EU intransigence or a desire to keep us in, gets zero respect from me because it shows a complete lack of understanding about what is actually happening. 

May agreed a solution but the DUP scuppered it. Perhaps she should just tell them to fuck off? That would be one way out of this. But to do that she’d have to work very closely with Labour. And Labour have offered several times but again she’s not done this. Whatever happens now this has been a huge failure. And the rhetoric that we are holding our nerve for a better deal is absolute fucking nonsense. We’ve agreed the stuff that we could be holding our nerve over. This isn’t about that. A solution has to be found and doing so means May has to lose a group of MPs from her party or the DUP or both. 

No, you are incorrect.

the EU have offered GB a palatable deal, but not the UK. There is no such entity as GB in this. Our tech border solution will work and it is has been rejected. Why?

Labours “position”, such that it is, is completely unworkable and mischief-making.

[bwfcfan5]

16 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

No, you are incorrect.

the EU have offered GB a palatable deal, but not the UK. There is no such entity as GB in this. Our tech border solution will work and it is has been rejected. Why?

Labours “position”, such that it is, is completely unworkable and mischief-making.

Our tech border offer hasn’t been rejected. The EU are happy with it. They say ‘tell us what it involves’. We cannot because the technology doesn’t fucking exist! And nobody has any certainty if such technology ever will exist to make the border operable in that way. 

Please remember, May agreed the deal. Then she got back and the DUP threatened her and she had to back down. 

This is 100% a problem of our own making. 

[Duck Egg]

7 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

 

Why is May so desperate for a deal? She could play hardball. But hasn’t because her own governments impact assessments of no deal that were kept secret and only shown to MPs are so bad that she ruled out that prospect a year ago, and will do anything to avoid it. 

If you were May in this instance, what would you do?

She's a Remainer at heart. She knows it's going to be a disaster. Surely, calling for a 2nd referendum would be more likely to save her political career and legacy, rather than leading us over a cliff?

[Moon boy]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Our tech border offer hasn’t been rejected. The EU are happy with it. They say ‘tell us what it involves’. We cannot because the technology doesn’t fucking exist! And nobody has any certainty if such technology ever will exist to make the border operable in that way. 

Please remember, May agreed the deal. Then she got back and the DUP threatened her and she had to back down. 

This is 100% a problem of our own making. 

“May agreed the deal”  what deal?  And the DUP threatened her with what?

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, Moon boy said:

“May agreed the deal”  what deal?  And the DUP threatened her with what?

Do you follow the news? May had a broad deal with the EU covering most things (not all) but including the Irish border. She came back to the UK and the DUP managed to get hold of the text she had "agreed" and then all hell broke loose and they forced May to backdown and try to renegotiate. 

That is why we are where we are on this issue. 

[bolty58]

I am becoming more and more convinced that the UK should just stick two fingers up to the continental conmen and strike out in our own direction, confident in our own abilities. 

There''ll be short term pain for long term gain whichever way it's done so why prolong the agony? Shock the fuckers and do one with no deal. We'd have trade deals in place with the US, Saudi Arabia and others sorted in no time flat. Far less time than all this fannying about with the drunk and his cohorts.

Seems to me that Dublin is having far too much influence and the reason is that the border issue is the EU's main hope that the UK will change direction and stay in. It's not an insurmountable issue - just make the wall we would build insurmountable. Job done.

[bwfcfan5]

2 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

If you were May in this instance, what would you do?

She's a Remainer at heart. She knows it's going to be a disaster. Surely, calling for a 2nd referendum would be more likely to save her political career and legacy, rather than leading us over a cliff?

Very simple answer - the only thing she can do is to tell the DUP and the hardline Brexiteers in her party to get lost. And work on Labour pro EU MP's very very hard - offer them a significant deal - perhaps involving a general election in May or policy concessions - to get the deal through parliament.

She cannot please everyone in her party and the only way forward for her is support from the opposition. 

[Sweep]

1 hour ago, bolty58 said:

. We'd have trade deals in place with the US, Saudi Arabia and others sorted in no time flat.

Would we bollocks, have you seen the fuckwits running the country, they're incapable of sorting anything out in "no time flat"

[Mounts Kipper]

It’s rumoured May did not take border solution to Brussels this week as it would have upset the DUP and she needs them to pass the budget and after that she will present the solution if that’s true it seems that the DUP going to be disappointed. Regarding a vote of no confidence in May this might actually help her position if the 48 letters arrive and the vote is held it is most likely that she will survive the vote as most Tories would vote to keep her this  means that they can’t vote on her leadership for another 12 months. That time will allow her to get cross party support and get a softer Brexit deal through parliament.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[bwfcfan5]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s rumoured May did not take border solution to Brussels this week as it would have upset the DUP and she needs them to pass the budget and after that she will present the solution if that’s true it seems that the DUP going to be disappointed. Regarding a vote of no confidence in May this might actually help her position if the 48 letters arrive and the vote is held it is most likely that she will survive the vote as most Tories would vote to keep her this  means that they can’t vote on her leadership for another 12 months. That time will allow her to get cross party support and get a softer Brexit deal through parliament.

 

Rumoured where? She already took the border solution to the EU agreed it, then the DUP blocked it - last year!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42217735

Her issue here is that she can't pass the final deal through parliament without DUP and Brexiteer Tory support - or a deal with the Labour party. She currently has no agreeable deal with the EU that can pass by the divisions in her party nor has she done anywhere near enough to gain cross-party support.

Ultimately she's doomed and what she is currently doing is playing for time. Even that her own party seems ready and able to deny her of.