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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

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9 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

So are you expecting the negotiations will start afresh? 

If parliament throw the deal out and as we head towards WTO the EU have no alternative other than to make concessions otherwise they lose 39 billion. That’ll go down well at EU budget meetings and how do the nett contributors sell higher taxes to the public back home. 

Edited by Mounts Kipper
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51 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

 We will get a deal and I’m predicting a better deal than is currently on the table. 

So to be clear, if we did go with the deal that is currently on the table (which I don't think we will, as our own Parliament won't pass it) - would you be happy, and does it stand anywhere near what you have said you want?

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Just now, Sweep said:

So to be clear, if we did go with the deal that is currently on the table (which I don't think we will, as our own Parliament won't pass it) - would you be happy, and does it stand anywhere near what you have said you want?

I think the deal on the table has the basis of a decent deal but as I understand it, it’s is not acceptable. 

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5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

If parliament throw the deal out and as we head towards WTO the EU have no alternative other than to make concessions otherwise they lose 39 billion. That’ll go down well at EU budget meetings and how do the nett contributors sell higher taxes to the public back home. 

So when Tusk says they are preparing for no deal you don't believe him? Oh, and by the way, we might be forced into paying some or all of the £39b if we want a trade deal with the EU after March 2019 or are we just going to forget about trading with the EU? 

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2 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

So when Tusk says they are preparing for no deal you don't believe him? Oh, and by the way, we might be forced into paying some or all of the £39b if we want a trade deal with the EU after March 2019 or are we just going to forget about trading with the EU? 

If we don't deal with the EU, of the two trading partners, who will be the biggest losers? Think about it.

Hopefully, a light bulb just came on.

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36 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I agree. She was horrific. From the moment she rambled on in a shrill voice for too long and Dimbleby tried to give someone else a chance and she said "I know you don't like women speaking" I took an instant dislike to her.

She didn't seem to realise that nobody wanted to hear her blaming the Labour party for a Tory made mess. Glad she was jeered for that. 

Would that be the Dimbleby of the Bullingdon Club?

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8 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

If we don't deal with the EU, of the two trading partners, who will be the biggest losers? Think about it.

Hopefully, a light bulb just came on.

There is a deficit yes, but we're talking about a single country against an entire block - the trade deficit with the EU isn't evenly split across all the member nations, so don't assume that it's a given that they will all agree to acquiesce to our demands. They can arguably also source much of what they buy from the UK from other EU members. Whilst the EU is a massive block, all of the component parts would have to agree to a trade deal, and we all know that can take a long time

 

Hopefully, a light bulb just came on

Edited by Sweep
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10 minutes ago, Sweep said:

There is a deficit yes, but we're talking about a single country against an entire block - the trade deficit with the EU isn't evenly split across all the member nations, so don't assume that it's a given that they will all agree to acquiesce to our demands. They can arguably also source much of what they buy from the UK from other EU members. Whilst the EU is a massive block, all of the component parts would have to agree to a trade deal, and we all know that can take a long time

 

Hopefully, a light bulb just came on

So imagine one of your biggest customers disputes an invoice and refuses to pay it but comes back the following week and says i am still not paying the disputed invoice but we would still like to trade. I know what i would say knowing i can get all the gear elsewhere

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5 hours ago, boltondiver said:

A few issues

Many will not understand, or be willing to commit the time/effort to understanding, the deal.

How many of those screeching for a 2nd referendum (that's what it is) voted to leave? Not many would be my assessment. It is about staying in, delaying.

Yep. Not one has said a second referendum with no deal and a selection of deals as options only. Every one wants remaining as an option.

Clearly just splitting the leave votes to achieve their real aims.

Anyway, Bollocks to that, markets and pound bounced back as the deal gets scrutinised.

Rolls Royce have now said it's decent and to get on with this.

There's a few weeks until the meaningful vote, during which time a bit more flesh will appear on the bones.

It seems as industry is starting to warm to the deal and labour will have to be careful if they block it en masse, as this could be spun against them come the next election.

 

Mounts; I agree that we'd have liked a stronger deal, but I don't see enough time to get it.

Especially given industry's response.

Perhaps, it could be strengthened over decades to come, but on balance, I see it as apposite to take it now.

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3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

If parliament throw the deal out and as we head towards WTO the EU have no alternative other than to make concessions otherwise they lose 39 billion. That’ll go down well at EU budget meetings and how do the nett contributors sell higher taxes to the public back home. 

This £39bn

i don’t think it’s quite the carrot that you think it is for the EU 

dont forget we generally get around half of our contributions back with EU investments into the U.K. which will be honoured as long as we honour our commitments. So it’s more like £20bn 

Lets put that into context, it’s less than 10% of what it cost the EU to bail Greece out of the shit 

The much bigger carrot is the ongoing trade between the EU and U.K. From what I can see it’s about £600bn a year in total (combined). Let’s assume that a messy BREXIT may hit that by 10% either way. Our exports to the EU would drop by £27bn a year and they would see a £34bn drop in exports to us. 

Whilst in cash terms they would appear to lose more it’s a much smaller % of their £1.8tn exports (2%), on the other hand £27bn is around 8% of our £370bn exports 

Effectively we would be hit 4 times as hard as the EU with a ‘messy BREXIT’ 

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5 hours ago, boltondiver said:

A few issues

Many will not understand, or be willing to commit the time/effort to understanding, the deal.

How many of those screeching for a 2nd referendum (that's what it is) voted to leave? Not many would be my assessment. It is about staying in, delaying.

See this is a classic Brexiteer response. 

"Can't have a second referendum because people won't understand".

But they were up in arms if anyone (even a leave voter) suggests some didn't know what they were voting for in the last referendum.

There were leave voters on QT last night calling for a 2nd referendum.

And is it about staying? Yes. Because its quite clear, crystal clear, that staying in is MILES better than the deal we have got. So you can ask voters whether they want to stay in, take the deal or leave on WTO rules. Because I would challenge anyone to suggest that leaving on this deal is worth it. Its a political fudge to try and appease everyone whilst minimising damage. But what is the point of it? Either leave properly or stay. Because if we leave properly the promises/lies of Brexiteers will be tested once and for all. If we stay we avoid making everything worse for absolutely no reason.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yep. Not one has said a second referendum with no deal and a selection of deals as options only. Every one wants remaining as an option.

Clearly just splitting the leave votes to achieve their real aims.

Anyway, Bollocks to that, markets and pound bounced back as the deal gets scrutinised.

Rolls Royce have now said it's decent and to get on with this.

There's a few weeks until the meaningful vote, during which time a bit more flesh will appear on the bones.

It seems as industry is starting to warm to the deal and labour will have to be careful if they block it en masse, as this could be spun against them come the next election.

 

Mounts; I agree that we'd have liked a stronger deal, but I don't see enough time to get it.

Especially given industry's response.

Perhaps, it could be strengthened over decades to come, but on balance, I see it as apposite to take it now.

Industry are basically saying "this is better than no deal". Industry also wants us not to leave at all.

Are you going to listen to industry properly and remain? Or only when it suits you?

 

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8 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Industry are basically saying "this is better than no deal". Industry also wants us not to leave at all.

Are you going to listen to industry properly and remain? Or only when it suits you?

 

It hasn't. I has said the lack of information and uncertainty is their problem. They've been seeking clarification which is fair enough. It has now been provided.

Any industry is made up of employees, who in a small majority voted to leave.

As such it's the government's job to sort that which they have been doing. Whether that's been done well or not will be discussed for ever, but a deal has been reached.

 

Are you going to listen to the population or ignore the majority because it doesn't suit you?

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24 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

It hasn't. I has said the lack of information and uncertainty is their problem. They've been seeking clarification which is fair enough. It has now been provided.

Any industry is made up of employees, who in a small majority voted to leave.

As such it's the government's job to sort that which they have been doing. Whether that's been done well or not will be discussed for ever, but a deal has been reached.

 

Are you going to listen to the population or ignore the majority because it doesn't suit you?

 

So we should take what is universally seen as a "bad deal" because its "all we've managed to get" and industry wants "certainty".

That's a weak argument when the majority of industry wanted to remain.

We've three choices. Take a bad deal that will cost the economy and leave us weaker than remaining (we know this for a fact since May has refused to say we'll be better off with this deal than now), take no deal which the government estimates to be a huge financial and logistical disaster, or remain.

Given what we now know - we should ask the British people what they want to do. Its all quite clear as a choice. Because those who voted for Brexit are most certainly not happy with this deal. So one can therefore deduce that it ISN'T what they voted for. 

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3 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Tory whips have had all their engagements cancelled today. Does that mean there are now enough letters from Tory MPs calling for confidence vote in May?

despite your best efforts its pretty clear you are lapping up this obvious split in the tory camp

 

dont kid yourselves corbyns mob is any more united

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