Politics

[Guest]

Cheese isn’t Labour 

[gonzo]

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Cheese isn’t Labour 

Deffo Britain First 

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Deffo Britain First 

Shhh

[gonzo]

[Cheese]

11 minutes ago, gonzo said:

We're relegated. 

[bwfcfan5]

3 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

I’d hazard a guess that for all your catastrophe talk you’d still vote against it and send us over the edge just to bring about a GE 

Poor form if so!!

I hope that TM can find enough pragmatic Labour MP’s who realise that this back stop is much better for the country than driving off a cliff edge 

Her own cabinet is working to try and change the deal as we speak - according to the BBC. 

She is the PM. She got a deal. She has the most MPs in the house and a pact with another party. If she can’t get the deal through her own cabinet and then wider party I think it’s a bit rich to expect the opposition to prop her up. As some of those ‘anti Corbyn’ Labour MPs like Jess Phillips have said today - they’ve offered to work with the Tories on Brexit since negotiations were starting. And were told ‘no thanks’. I don’t think many will be persuaded given their treatment. And they have the perfect position because most of those MPs don’t want to leave. So they can reject a bad deal. And argue that May’s binary option is false. Given her own cabinet are trying to renegotiate they have everything they need to make said argument.

Even the Brexit voting Labour MPs don’t seem to be likely to back it.

Personally I would love it if 150 Labour MPs and 180 Tory MPs came together got this deal through and then fucked off the rest of their parties and formed a sensible working coalition. Sense would be restored.

Edited November 16, 2018 by bwfcfan5

[Traf]

42 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Personally I would love it if 150 Labour MPs and 180 Tory MPs came together got this deal through and then fucked off the rest of their parties and formed a sensible working coalition. Sense would be restored.

If only...

[Salford Trotter]

16 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I think the deal on the table has the basis of a decent deal but as I understand it, it’s is not acceptable. 

So you have had chance to absorb the detail, can you share with us what you find acceptable and what you find unacceptable? And please share with us how leaving the EU with no deal, as you suggested, and refusing to pay a £39b divorce settlement is going to help us garner a favourable trade deal with the EU? 

[bolty58]

18 hours ago, frank_spencer said:

Us because the EU can source things from the rest of the EU. 

As spiders story has shown. 

The light's on but no one's home.

[bolty58]

18 hours ago, Salford Trotter said:

Bolty's response beggars belief... I rest my case your honour. 

 

You ought to. Yes, of course goods are available elsewhere. This is about selling INTO the UK you plum. FFS, I hope you don't run a business.

[bolty58]

8 hours ago, Winchester White said:

Cheese is correct on this, how many realise this isn't our permanent trading agreement with the EU but only a transition arrangement while we actually negotiate a proper exit?  This shows how difficult it really is, we can't even agree how to deal with the next 2/3 years and it has taken nearly 2 years to get to this point.

Over in a fortnight, hold all the cards, etc, etc...

 

I'll drop Remoaner if the other side drop that stupid 'holding all the cards' bollocks.

[Not in Crawley]

“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and can choose the path we want.”

Michael Gove

”Getting out of the EU is quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.”

John Redwood

And lest we forget Davies’ idiotic proclamations about all this being easy and sorted out in 18 months.

Damned by the words of those you choose to believe, I’m afraid. 

[jayjayoghani]

8 hours ago, gonzo said:

Used to work with him about 30 years ago

[birch-chorley]

13 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Her own cabinet is working to try and change the deal as we speak - according to the BBC. 

She is the PM. She got a deal. She has the most MPs in the house and a pact with another party. If she can’t get the deal through her own cabinet and then wider party I think it’s a bit rich to expect the opposition to prop her up. As some of those ‘anti Corbyn’ Labour MPs like Jess Phillips have said today - they’ve offered to work with the Tories on Brexit since negotiations were starting. And were told ‘no thanks’. I don’t think many will be persuaded given their treatment. And they have the perfect position because most of those MPs don’t want to leave. So they can reject a bad deal. And argue that May’s binary option is false. Given her own cabinet are trying to renegotiate they have everything they need to make said argument.

Even the Brexit voting Labour MPs don’t seem to be likely to back it.

Personally I would love it if 150 Labour MPs and 180 Tory MPs came together got this deal through and then fucked off the rest of their parties and formed a sensible working coalition. Sense would be restored.

So if you were a Labour MP would you vote for it or against it? 

Its only a backstop, it tcks most of the boxes that are in the Labour position anyway 

it stops us from falling off a cliff edge and the long term relationship is still to be settled 

The pragmatic way would be Labour supporting this, if they don’t in an effort to force a GE then it’s poor form. Perhaps TM can offer a GE in 2020 as a way to get them on side 

Edited November 17, 2018 by birch-chorley

[Mounts Kipper]

7 hours ago, Salford Trotter said:

So you have had chance to absorb the detail, can you share with us what you find acceptable and what you find unacceptable? And please share with us how leaving the EU with no deal, as you suggested, and refusing to pay a £39b divorce settlement is going to help us garner a favourable trade deal with the EU? 

I’ve  not had the time to read the deal for myself, but from reading reports on specific issues I’m concerned about the back stop to the back stop we should be able to unilaterally bring that to an end otherwise we could be locked in forever.

 The other area that concerns me is are we really able to negotiate new trade deals, that centres around the ECJ and whether we are tied to it, we need to be able to at least diverge where necessary from that rule book or even better not have to be subject to it at all.  

Regarding leaving the EU without a deal, it is clearly not what either side would desire but if one side cannot see sense then the other side must take that course of action in order to force concessions.

This is a course of action I was fully expecting our government to use during the end stage of negotiations, that the government haven’t used it tells me that we have yet to get the very best deal. 

I think the EU knows that I think TM knows that and I think the majority of MPs in parliament know that. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[Casino]

Hold him down, nurse

Meds have worn off

[bwfcfan5]

3 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

So if you were a Labour MP would you vote for it or against it? 

Its only a backstop, it time vis most of the boxes that are in the Labour position anyway 

it stops us from falling off a cliff edge and the long term relationship is still to be settled 

The pragmatic way would be Labour supporting this, if they don’t in an effort to force a GE then it’s poor form. Perhaps TM can offer a GE in 2020 as a way to get them on side 

If I was an MP personally I’d vote against it as I cannot vote for a course of action that leads us down a road of economic harm. But I’d have been consistent in that view and voted against all Brexit motions anyway. That’s my own personal view. That’s the problem though. The pro EU Labour MPs who might rebel would have to go against their prior principles. Most of them who would vote against Corbyn want a second referendum. Not a bad deal. 

[Salford Trotter]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’ve  not had the time to read the deal for myself, but from reading reports on specific issues I’m concerned about the back stop to the back stop we should be able to unilaterally bring that to an end otherwise we could be locked in forever.

 The other area that concerns me is are we really able to negotiate new trade deals, that centres around the ECJ and whether we are tied to it, we need to be able to at least diverge where necessary from that rule book or even better not have to be subject to it at all.  

Regarding leaving the EU without a deal, it is clearly not what either side would desire but if one side cannot see sense then the other side must take that course of action in order to force concessions.

This is a course of action I was fully expecting our government to use during the end stage of negotiations, that the government haven’t used it tells me that we have yet to get the very best deal. 

I think the EU knows that I think TM knows that and I think the majority of MPs in parliament know that. 

The chances of re-negotiating the fundamentals at this stage are less than zero so in that case we are heading for an overwhelming vote against the proposal in Parliament next month and we leave without a deal. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Salford Trotter

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

The chances of re-negotiating the fundamentals at this stage are less than zero so in that case we are heading for an overwhelming vote against the proposal in Parliament next month and we leave without a deal. 

The City are betting on a deal, out of interest 

[Casino]

Aye

The deal we have now

Not something bettet

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Casino said:

Aye

The deal we have now

Not something bettet

I don’t think so

A deal, rather than “no deal/WTO”

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

The chances of re-negotiating the fundamentals at this stage are less than zero so in that case we are heading for an overwhelming vote against the proposal in Parliament next month and we leave without a deal. 

You said we wouldn’t vote to leave you were wrong, You said we wouldn’t get a deal you were wrong despite the deal not being acceptable yet, you now say we won’t be able to renogitiate, you’ll be wrong again, you say we will crash out without a deal you’ll be wrong again. You are Mr negativity,  nothing  you’ve said has been proven correct. Think I’d quit while your behind.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[Salford Trotter]

17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You said we wouldn’t vote to leave you were wrong, You said we wouldn’t get a deal you were wrong despite the deal not being acceptable yet, you now say we won’t be able to renogitiate, you’ll be wrong again, you say we will crash out without a deal you’ll be wrong again. You are Mr negativity,  nothing  you’ve said has been proven correct. Think I’d quit while your behind.

This is the divorce bit Mounts NOT the trade negotiations. All of mine and your predictions have been about the trade deal so if we can't agree on the exit terms then we won't get to the part where we have bantered over the last 2 years. I think you are confusing reality with negativity as i have consistently stated that we are not going to get out without a great deal of pain whereas you have consistently argued the opposite, who is right now? 

[Mounts Kipper]

10 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

This is the divorce bit Mounts NOT the trade negotiations. All of mine and your predictions have been about the trade deal so if we can't agree on the exit terms then we won't get to the part where we have bantered over the last 2 years. I think you are confusing reality with negativity as i have consistently stated that we are not going to get out without a great deal of pain whereas you have consistently argued the opposite, who is right now? 

It’s happening, the difficulty is a strategy specifically engineered by EU law and used by the EU to warn off others leaving, that is the reality. You need to take off your doom blinkers, as I’ve repeatedly said it will all work out just fine. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[Spider]

14 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It’s happening, the difficulty is a strategy specifically engineered by EU law and used by the EU to warn off others leaving, that is the reality. You need to take off your doom blinkers, as I’ve repeatedly said it will all work out just fine. 

Yeah

i can barely move for orders from the EU

its just fine.

merry christmas.