bwfcfan5 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sweep said: True, but the likes of him and Gina Miller forced the issue that allowed Parliament to have the final say, otherwise we'd be going with TMs piss poor deal.....which clearly nobody likes. An interesting point from yesterday.....Gove voted for TMs deal, and Boris voted against it................both of the were co-Chair of official leave campaign, and both of the keep saying the will of the people has to be adhered to - how can they both be saying the same thing, but voting in opposite directions?!?! What that clearly highlights is that ANY, Brexit person who says "we all knew what we were voting for" is absolutely deluded or plain lying. A or B. Only one of the two. It is clear they didn't. Caught someone on the news say that Gove has been spooked by the no deal preparations at DEFRA and the warnings he has been receiving about its consequences for his department and agriculture and is softening all the time. He'll be fully fledged remain by March apparently. He was all for hard Brexit - now he described no deal as "a disaster". The idea that it was clear what people were voting for, or May projecting what people were voting for (she's lying as her red lines are purely to protect her position, nothing to do with the will of Brexit voters) is a nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted January 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2019 Interesting about how much we need the EU and how much they need us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Sweep said: Another referendum might not have "remain" as an option 1) Leave with No Deal 2) Leave with this piss poor deal we've agreed, that is pretty much us actually staying, and nothing much changing I agree, but it's wishful thinking. No way would that happen, when the only people actually requesting it, are doing all they can to remain. Vince cable typifies this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: I agree, but it's wishful thinking. No way would that happen, when the only people actually requesting it, are doing all they can to remain. Vince cable typifies this. Farage last night said a 2nd referendum might be the best way to get a proper Brexit. I'm not convinced that it is simply those who want to remain calling for this. Cable wants to remain and is consistent in that and why. But many calling for a 2nd ref are now doing so because they can see the mess evolving into nobody getting what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Farage last night said a 2nd referendum might be the best way to get a proper Brexit. I'm not convinced that it is simply those who want to remain calling for this. Cable wants to remain and is consistent in that and why. But many calling for a 2nd ref are now doing so because they can see the mess evolving into nobody getting what they want. Think Farage might be right. Two options on a second referendum 1) fuck off with no deal 2) remain. No pissing about, everyone knows where we stand. Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Think Farage might be right. Two options on a second referendum 1) fuck off with no deal 2) remain. No pissing about, everyone knows where we stand. Job done. And take out a deal somewhere in between that might be what the majority would want? Just proves the pointlessness of one. Can have another in/out referendum in a few decades once we've given leave a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: And take out a deal somewhere in between that might be what the majority would want? Just proves the pointlessness of one. Can have another in/out referendum in a few decades once we've given leave a chance. Trouble is IF leave goes badly Brexiteers won't say "well sure lets vote again". They'll blame "how" Brexit was carried out and whatever deal is struck. So I don't think that is a viable option. Also lets say no deal is as bad as some think and that is what transpires....we'll be back in before you can say EU ref....and on a worse deal than now. This needs sorting somehow now. IF there is to be another vote, if that is the only way, then it has to be now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Here’s Farage today....having listened all week to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2, he’s got a point re the lion roaring. The EU’s treatment in the whole Brexit debate has made plenty of people even more determined to leave the shackles of the EU now. So many on Vine’s show this week have said they’re determined to vote leave if there is a second referendum, the main thing even Vine noted was that most callers were originally in the remain camp. Most callers were also furious with our government’s feeble negotiating skills and want to force their hand now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Trouble is IF leave goes badly Brexiteers won't say "well sure lets vote again". They'll blame "how" Brexit was carried out and whatever deal is struck. So I don't think that is a viable option. Also lets say no deal is as bad as some think and that is what transpires....we'll be back in before you can say EU ref....and on a worse deal than now. This needs sorting somehow now. IF there is to be another vote, if that is the only way, then it has to be now. Don’t be so sure, see the above link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwen_white Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 37 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The idea that it was clear what people were voting for, or May projecting what people were voting for (she's lying as her red lines are purely to protect her position, nothing to do with the will of Brexit voters) is a nonsense. We knew what we were voting for in 2016 because we were all sent a leaflet telling us. Cameron then told us 28 times during the campaign that voting Leave would mean leaving the Customs Union and Single Market. It could not have been clearer to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwen_white Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Two options on a second referendum 1) fuck off with no deal 2) remain. No pissing about, everyone knows where we stand. Job done. This is precisely what we voted on in 2016! The 'deal' bit was only mentioned after the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, darwen_white said: We knew what we were voting for in 2016 because we were all sent a leaflet telling us. Cameron then told us 28 times during the campaign that voting Leave would mean leaving the Customs Union and Single Market. It could not have been clearer to me. 10 minutes ago, darwen_white said: This is precisely what we voted on in 2016! The 'deal' bit was only mentioned after the result. They must be too busy googling the facts before replying ......and I thought it was the leavers who were thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted January 16, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, darwen_white said: We knew what we were voting for in 2016 because we were all sent a leaflet telling us. Cameron then told us 28 times during the campaign that voting Leave would mean leaving the Customs Union and Single Market. It could not have been clearer to me. not for the first time, a politician got it wrong parliament will not vote for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) So many people are saying they were sold a lie by both sides and that the prospect of No Deal was never an option that was discussed at length and the implications of that possible outcome was not explained in detail. Many Leavers are now Remainers as I am sure the reverse is the same...too close to call if it goes to a people's vote. 2 options 1.Remain 2. No Deal Edited January 16, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted January 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2019 Strange how the Remainer-MPs "got their facts wrong" in the build up to the vote yet those MPs who supported an exit "Lied to the voters". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, miamiwhite said: Here’s Farage today....having listened all week to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2, he’s got a point re the lion roaring. The EU’s treatment in the whole Brexit debate has made plenty of people even more determined to leave the shackles of the EU now. So many on Vine’s show this week have said they’re determined to vote leave if there is a second referendum, the main thing even Vine noted was that most callers were originally in the remain camp. Most callers were also furious with our government’s feeble negotiating skills and want to force their hand now. Conversely, on James O'Brien's show yesterday, nearly every caller was wanting to remain, and some of them had voted leave last time - so I'm not sure anybody could call it, I would imagine it would be every bit as close as last time If there was a second referendum, and there shouldn't be one (in my opinion), then it would be interesting to see how each side plays it - last time both sides were absolutely full of shit and both campaigns were atrocious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwen_white Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Casino said: not for the first time, a politician got it wrong parliament will not vote for that Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, darwen_white said: This is precisely what we voted on in 2016! The 'deal' bit was only mentioned after the result. Correct And we then had a General Election.......surely UKIP should have won nearly every seat by pushing this point - instead they shit their pants and imploded and left it to the Tory party who were always going to try and keep us in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, miamiwhite said: I thought it was the leavers who were thick Not at all, they were old racists, but not thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sweep said: Not at all, they were old racists, but not thick Remainers must suffer from amnesia then,especially on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, darwen_white said: Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.) That isn't true is it? Labour were nebulous saying "we are determined to retain the benefits of the CU and SM". Don't think their manifesto ever said anything beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted January 16, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, darwen_white said: Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.) you quoted cameron he got it wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, darwen_white said: Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.) Do you for one minute believe that the electorate (in general) knew the implications of leaving either of those? I bet most do now Edited January 16, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted January 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2019 I am confident that if we got a 2nd referendum (and I am not sure that is a good idea bu the way) that remain will win and by a fair margin. Then the fun would start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted January 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2019 Can someone explain to me how going from 0% tariffs to WTO tariffs for over 50% of our imports and exports would be good for our economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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