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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

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miamiwhite

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4 minutes ago, Sweep said:

True, but the likes of him and Gina Miller forced the issue that allowed Parliament to have the final say, otherwise we'd be going with TMs piss poor deal.....which clearly nobody likes. 

 

An interesting point from yesterday.....Gove voted for TMs deal, and Boris voted against it................both of the were co-Chair of official leave campaign, and both of the keep saying the will of the people has to be adhered to  -  how can they both be saying the same thing, but voting in opposite directions?!?!

What that clearly highlights is that ANY, Brexit person who says "we all knew what we were voting for" is absolutely deluded or plain lying. A or B. Only one of the two.

It is clear they didn't. Caught someone on the news say that Gove has been spooked by the no deal preparations at DEFRA and the warnings he has been receiving about its consequences for his department and agriculture and is softening all the time. He'll be fully fledged remain by March apparently. 

He was all for hard Brexit - now he described no deal as "a disaster". 

The idea that it was clear what people were voting for, or May projecting what people were voting for (she's lying as her red lines are purely to protect her position, nothing to do with the will of Brexit voters) is a nonsense. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Another referendum might not have "remain" as an option

1) Leave with No Deal

2) Leave with this piss poor deal we've agreed, that is pretty much us actually staying, and nothing much changing

I agree, but it's wishful thinking.

No way would that happen, when the only people actually requesting it, are doing all they can to remain.

Vince cable typifies this.

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1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I agree, but it's wishful thinking.

No way would that happen, when the only people actually requesting it, are doing all they can to remain.

Vince cable typifies this.

Farage last night said a 2nd referendum might be the best way to get a proper Brexit.

I'm not convinced that it is simply those who want to remain calling for this. Cable wants to remain and is consistent in that and why. But many calling for a 2nd ref are now doing so because they can see the mess evolving into nobody getting what they want. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Farage last night said a 2nd referendum might be the best way to get a proper Brexit.

I'm not convinced that it is simply those who want to remain calling for this. Cable wants to remain and is consistent in that and why. But many calling for a 2nd ref are now doing so because they can see the mess evolving into nobody getting what they want. 

 

 

Think Farage might be right. 

Two options on a second referendum  

1) fuck off with no deal 

2) remain. 

No pissing about, everyone knows where we stand. Job done. 

 

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4 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Think Farage might be right. 

Two options on a second referendum  

1) fuck off with no deal 

2) remain. 

No pissing about, everyone knows where we stand. Job done. 

 

And take out a deal somewhere in between that might be what the majority would want?

Just proves the pointlessness of one.

Can have another in/out referendum in a few decades once we've given leave a chance.

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8 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

And take out a deal somewhere in between that might be what the majority would want?

Just proves the pointlessness of one.

Can have another in/out referendum in a few decades once we've given leave a chance.

Trouble is IF leave goes badly Brexiteers won't say "well sure lets vote again". They'll blame "how" Brexit was carried out and whatever deal is struck. 

So I don't think that is a viable option. Also lets say no deal is as bad as some think and that is what transpires....we'll be back in before you can say EU ref....and on a worse deal than now.

This needs sorting somehow now. IF there is to be another vote, if that is the only way, then it has to be now. 

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Here’s Farage today....having listened all week to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2, he’s got a point re the lion roaring.

The EU’s treatment in the whole Brexit debate has made plenty of people even more determined to leave the shackles of the EU now.

So many on Vine’s show this week have said they’re determined to vote leave if there is a second referendum, the main thing even Vine noted was that most callers were originally in the remain camp.

Most callers were also furious with our government’s feeble negotiating skills and want to force their hand now.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Trouble is IF leave goes badly Brexiteers won't say "well sure lets vote again". They'll blame "how" Brexit was carried out and whatever deal is struck. 

So I don't think that is a viable option. Also lets say no deal is as bad as some think and that is what transpires....we'll be back in before you can say EU ref....and on a worse deal than now.

This needs sorting somehow now. IF there is to be another vote, if that is the only way, then it has to be now. 

Don’t be so sure, see the above link 

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37 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:


The idea that it was clear what people were voting for, or May projecting what people were voting for (she's lying as her red lines are purely to protect her position, nothing to do with the will of Brexit voters) is a nonsense. 

 

 

 

We knew what we were voting for in 2016 because we were all sent a leaflet telling us.

Cameron then told us 28 times during the campaign that voting Leave would mean leaving the Customs Union and Single Market.

It could not have been clearer to me. 

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15 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

 

We knew what we were voting for in 2016 because we were all sent a leaflet telling us.

Cameron then told us 28 times during the campaign that voting Leave would mean leaving the Customs Union and Single Market.

It could not have been clearer to me. 

 

10 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

 

This is precisely what we voted on in 2016!

The 'deal' bit was only mentioned after the result.

They must be too busy googling the facts before replying ......and I thought it was the leavers who were thick :D

 

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16 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

 

We knew what we were voting for in 2016 because we were all sent a leaflet telling us.

Cameron then told us 28 times during the campaign that voting Leave would mean leaving the Customs Union and Single Market.

It could not have been clearer to me. 

not for the first time, a politician got it wrong

parliament will not vote for that

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So many people are saying they were sold a lie by both sides and that the prospect of No Deal was never an option that was discussed at length and the implications of that possible outcome was not explained in detail. Many Leavers are now Remainers as I am sure the reverse is the same...too close to call if it goes to a people's vote.

2 options

1.Remain

2. No Deal 

Edited by Salford Trotter
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31 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Here’s Farage today....having listened all week to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2, he’s got a point re the lion roaring.

The EU’s treatment in the whole Brexit debate has made plenty of people even more determined to leave the shackles of the EU now.

So many on Vine’s show this week have said they’re determined to vote leave if there is a second referendum, the main thing even Vine noted was that most callers were originally in the remain camp.

Most callers were also furious with our government’s feeble negotiating skills and want to force their hand now.

 

 

 

 

Conversely, on James O'Brien's show yesterday, nearly every caller was wanting to remain, and some of them had voted leave last time - so I'm not sure anybody could call it, I would imagine it would be every bit as close as last time

If there was a second referendum, and there shouldn't be one (in my opinion), then it would be interesting to see how each side plays it - last time both sides were absolutely full of shit and both campaigns were atrocious 

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12 minutes ago, Casino said:

not for the first time, a politician got it wrong

parliament will not vote for that

Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.)

 

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31 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

 

This is precisely what we voted on in 2016!

The 'deal' bit was only mentioned after the result.

Correct

And we then had a General Election.......surely UKIP should have won nearly every seat by pushing this point - instead they shit their pants and imploded and left it to the Tory party who were always going to try and keep us in.

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4 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.)

 

That isn't true is it? Labour were nebulous saying "we are determined to retain the benefits of the CU and SM". Don't think their manifesto ever said anything beyond that.

 

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7 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.)

 

you quoted cameron

he got it wrong

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30 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

Leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was doubled down on by both Labour and Tories in their 2017 manifestos. 84% of the electorate went for them. (The Lib Dems weren't touched.)

 

Do you for one minute believe that the electorate (in general) knew the implications of leaving either of those? I bet most do now

Edited by Salford Trotter
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