Site Supporter only1swanny Posted January 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2019 communism... some people just want to watch the world burn.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, wiggy said: Someone is really going to have to explain this to me. I can only assume that I’m missing something. As far as I can make out... Corbyn has just said he won’t talk with May until she completely ruled out a no deal exit Corbyn has rejected the deal on offer from the EU which they say will not change Corbyn does not believe their should be a second referendum So what exactly does he think should happen? Renegotiate with the EU without May’s red lines. The EU have said this is the only deal IF the restrictions imposed by May are held, but if we stay in the customs union as Labour want then that changes. It would be logical were Labour honest about what staying ib the customs union meant. But they aren’t. I mean to me it’s pretty clear that at least initially CU membership is essential and perhaps once the border issue can be dealt with then we can leave. But clearly staying in the CU means we can’t negotiate our own trade deals. The upside being that we’d still have access to the EU bilateral deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Renegotiate with the EU without May’s red lines. The EU have said this is the only deal IF the restrictions imposed by May are held, but if we stay in the customs union as Labour want then that changes. It would be logical were Labour honest about what staying ib the customs union meant. But they aren’t. I mean to me it’s pretty clear that at least initially CU membership is essential and perhaps once the border issue can be dealt with then we can leave. But clearly staying in the CU means we can’t negotiate our own trade deals. The upside being that we’d still have access to the EU bilateral deals. Thanks for the clarification. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 15/01/2019 at 17:49, Sweep said: I hope Crusty Pippin has had her innoculations Well, I have, and my impregnations down the years should surely pass on some immunity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 15 hours ago, darwen_white said: This is precisely what we voted on in 2016! The 'deal' bit was only mentioned after the result. Aye and shitloads voted for £300 million a week for the NHS and other non achievable bullshit regarding immigration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 7 hours ago, only1swanny said: communism... some people just want to watch the world burn.. Here we go. Anybody to the left is a communist Absolute fucking bollox. Worries me that a bloke with what seems like an overly simple world view is teaching kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 It's lucky that the majority in education are unreconstructed Trots whose raison d'être is promoting hardline atheism, multiculturalism and gay sex toward kids... Oh, and world communism too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter only1swanny Posted January 17, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2019 I'm one of the few that don't tow the left field.. Quite happy in the fact that I manage to add balance to the world, the yin the the yang, However as part of teaching it's important that you don't let political views influence your teaching or imply these on students, so don't worry Mick, I'm not creating a group of combat 18 trainee's ready to leave the classroom and shout down everything you hold dear.. As for watching the world Burn, he knew that the vote wouldn't work, he did it on the off chance to try and topple the government 72/73 days before one of the biggest political events in our recent history.. Where he should be working for the people that voted for him and putting his idea's forward, he's tried to slow things down.. As shown last night, he doesn't want a no deal, he doesn't want a deal.. he's a Euro Sceptic and always has been so... what exactly is he after.. To cause trouble and try to take advantage of it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Is Brexit now dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter only1swanny Posted January 17, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2019 Not yet, but i reckon May's political career probably is after March :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 33 minutes ago, only1swanny said: I'm one of the few that don't tow the left field.. Quite happy in the fact that I manage to add balance to the world, the yin the the yang, However as part of teaching it's important that you don't let political views influence your teaching or imply these on students, so don't worry Mick, I'm not creating a group of combat 18 trainee's ready to leave the classroom and shout down everything you hold dear.. As for watching the world Burn, he knew that the vote wouldn't work, he did it on the off chance to try and topple the government 72/73 days before one of the biggest political events in our recent history.. Where he should be working for the people that voted for him and putting his idea's forward, he's tried to slow things down.. As shown last night, he doesn't want a no deal, he doesn't want a deal.. he's a Euro Sceptic and always has been so... what exactly is he after.. To cause trouble and try to take advantage of it.. He had to call for the vote as it was Labour party policy and May said if Corbyn hadn't she would allow any other opposition leader (Cable) to do so. So she basically forced the vote on him. That was entirely May's choosing to have the confidence vote yesterday. However, even had she not said that then Corbyn would have to have pressed for one given that was their policy. Corbyn is fucked. Just like May. He cannot please the whole of his party whatever he does. So he's absolutely fucked. I bet he wishes May's deal had passed and then he could just carry on criticising it. There is nothing May or Corbyn can offer each other that won't involve completely splitting their parties. Both know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Cross the streams....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter only1swanny Posted January 17, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2019 That's the problem, We are in a stalemate with 2 weak leaders, both have fantastic attributes in their own way, don't get me wrong and both are fantastic politicians in their own way.. Had labour a strong leader they would be running the show.. If Conservatives had someone else they would.. Ed Milliband shouldn't have quit.. Corbyn was defeated at Election and stayed on, so not sure why Milliband felt the need to quit.. He would have been a much stronger opposition to the current government.. Interesting to see Gove lining himself up to be next leader.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, only1swanny said: I'm one of the few that don't tow the left field.. Quite happy in the fact that I manage to add balance to the world, the yin the the yang, However as part of teaching it's important that you don't let political views influence your teaching or imply these on students, so don't worry Mick, I'm not creating a group of combat 18 trainee's ready to leave the classroom and shout down everything you hold dear.. As for watching the world Burn, he knew that the vote wouldn't work, he did it on the off chance to try and topple the government 72/73 days before one of the biggest political events in our recent history.. Where he should be working for the people that voted for him and putting his idea's forward, he's tried to slow things down.. As shown last night, he doesn't want a no deal, he doesn't want a deal.. he's a Euro Sceptic and always has been so... what exactly is he after.. To cause trouble and try to take advantage of it.. She called for somebody to instigate a vote of no confidence because she’d just had a record arse kicking. It’s what a government who’d just been handed their arse in such a spectacular manner would expect. You miss that bit? As for delaying things - you seem to be forgetting she postponed the original vote a month ago and has spent two years achieving next to fuck all, but aye the whole shitstorm is down to Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, only1swanny said: That's the problem, We are in a stalemate with 2 weak leaders, both have fantastic attributes in their own way, don't get me wrong and both are fantastic politicians in their own way.. Had labour a strong leader they would be running the show.. If Conservatives had someone else they would.. Ed Milliband shouldn't have quit.. Corbyn was defeated at Election and stayed on, so not sure why Milliband felt the need to quit.. He would have been a much stronger opposition to the current government.. Interesting to see Gove lining himself up to be next leader.. Neither are fantastic politicians. Both are utter shit politicians. As for Ed - he quit because his electoral performance was far worse than Corbyn's was a few years later. However, it is clear that had EM won the election we'd not be in this mess. The Tories stole half his ideas anyway. Miliband was the leader we needed to be honest - but cos he spoke a bit funny and actually had a brain - that was no good. When you listen to him in interview now - he comes across very well. Gove can go fuck himself. What a disaster that would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Neither are fantastic politicians. Both are utter shit politicians. As for Ed - he quit because his electoral performance was far worse than Corbyn's was a few years later. However, it is clear that had EM won the election we'd not be in this mess. The Tories stole half his ideas anyway. Miliband was the leader we needed to be honest - but cos he spoke a bit funny and actually had a brain - that was no good. When you listen to him in interview now - he comes across very well. Gove can go fuck himself. What a disaster that would be. Milliband fucked it by standing against his brother so he can fuck right off as well David Milliband would have won that election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Milliband fucked it by standing against his brother so he can fuck right off as well David Milliband would have won that election. He might have. But then he'd have suffered from being "Blair Mk 2". And I think there is no guarantee he'd have won. Politically Ed is far brighter than David. Presentation and oration clearly David has the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just now, bwfcfan5 said: He might have. But then he'd have suffered from being "Blair Mk 2". And I think there is no guarantee he'd have won. Politically Ed is far brighter than David. Presentation and oration clearly David has the edge. And that’s what seems to matter these days. See Cameron the PR man for proof of that. 20 years back that twat wouldn’t make the front benches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, mickbrown said: And that’s what seems to matter these days. See Cameron the PR man for proof of that. 20 years back that twat wouldn’t make the front benches. I agree. Under normal circumstances DM was a sure thing. Its just he would have been constantly compared to Blair and tainted with his past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: He might have. But then he'd have suffered from being "Blair Mk 2". And I think there is no guarantee he'd have won. Politically Ed is far brighter than David. Presentation and oration clearly David has the edge. I disagree with that slightly- Ed is really a policy wonk (I wouldn’t say brighter) and it’s great to have those in cabinet but leadership isn’t about that it’s about managing a range of ideals under a cohesive strategy and everyone toe the line. The conservatives are generally better at this because they know being in power is the only way to get what they want - Labour did under Blair because it became sick of not being in power and the grassroots followed Blair whilst not liking him. The Labour Party isn’t a machine designed to hold government - ideology puts pay to that and gives us the current leader. i joined the Labour Party, left because it was all ‘comrade this’ at meetings. Also because I realised I’m probably a wet Tory - unfortunately there is no sense in either party now for social liberalism, which is an undoing of our own making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 The EU have stated that TM’s deal is the only deal on offer. TM said in her speech last night Leave still means Leave. The deal lost by 230 votes, if the the Irish triple lock had been removed I suspect it may have got through. 118 Conservative MP’s voted against it plus the DUP 10, total 128, if 116 of these switched to vote for the deal it goes through. The EU keep saying they need clarity on what the UK want, now if a majority in Parliament would accept the deal without the triple lock that would put the ball back in Barnier’s court. We could then say it’s that or a WTO deal The DUP and the ERG are open to accepting the deal without the EU legal final say. This could be the quickest achievable deal before March 29th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just now, Not in Crawley said: I disagree with that slightly- Ed is really a policy wonk (I wouldn’t say brighter) and it’s great to have those in cabinet but leadership isn’t about that it’s about managing a range of ideals under a cohesive strategy and everyone toe the line. The conservatives are generally better at this because they know being in power is the only way to get what they want - Labour did under Blair because it became sick of not being in power and the grassroots followed Blair whilst not liking him. The Labour Party isn’t a machine designed to hold government - ideology puts pay to that and gives us the current leader. i joined the Labour Party, left because it was all ‘comrade this’ at meetings. Also because I realised I’m probably a wet Tory - unfortunately there is no sense in either party now for social liberalism, which is an undoing of our own making. Well yes I agree. I'd like the reality to be that a clever bloke with great ideas has a chance. Reality is that isn't enough in our culture where only a tiny minority actually engage or think about policy. As for Labour - completely agree. They lack the pragmatism needed to get into power. Rees Mogg talked about this a while back explaining that currently the Tories have abandoned all Conservative ideology because their whole mission during Labour's time in office was to regain the "credible" tag. And that Labour's response to being out of office was to lurch towards even clearer ideology. So Corbyn has his devoted followers who strongly agree with his principles, but no way of reaching out beyond that. The Tories can reach beyond as they are offering a pragmatism but no real ideology or principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Moon boy said: The EU have stated that TM’s deal is the only deal on offer. TM said in her speech last night Leave still means Leave. The deal lost by 230 votes, if the the Irish triple lock had been removed I suspect it may have got through. 118 Conservative MP’s voted against it plus the DUP 10, total 128, if 116 of these switched to vote for the deal it goes through. The EU keep saying they need clarity on what the UK want, now if a majority in Parliament would accept the deal without the triple lock that would put the ball back in Barnier’s court. We could then say it’s that or a WTO deal The DUP and the ERG are open to accepting the deal without the EU legal final say. This could be the quickest achievable deal before March 29th The Baron amendment was voted down emphatically. So not sure why you'd imagine the DUP and ERG would suddenly go for it.... Also according to this the 118 Tory rebels are not simply going to fold on a backstop end date even if one could be secured... https://twitter.com/iain_w_anderson/status/1085815812303265792 Edited January 17, 2019 by bwfcfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted January 17, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Moon boy said: The EU have stated that TM’s deal is the only deal on offer. TM said in her speech last night Leave still means Leave. The deal lost by 230 votes, if the the Irish triple lock had been removed I suspect it may have got through. 118 Conservative MP’s voted against it plus the DUP 10, total 128, if 116 of these switched to vote for the deal it goes through. The EU keep saying they need clarity on what the UK want, now if a majority in Parliament would accept the deal without the triple lock that would put the ball back in Barnier’s court. We could then say it’s that or a WTO deal The DUP and the ERG are open to accepting the deal without the EU legal final say. This could be the quickest achievable deal before March 29th oh i do like this and the irish border where eu meets wto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Casino said: oh i do like this and the irish border where eu meets wto? Red herring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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