Politics

[Jol_BWFC]

So neither of you have read my original post or the other posts about this.

[Mounts Kipper]

35 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

The people rejected remain, so ...........

It’s becoming utterly ridiculous the position of hardline remainers, they slag of the ERG but are harder line the opposite way, yet the ERG are on the right side of democracy while these remain fuckwits want to trash the referendum and want to dangerously disregard democracy. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

11 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

So neither of you have read my original post or the other posts about this.

Of course I did. However, it broke down upon your insistence that the government had failed if it can't get positive vote by the 29th.

The whole issue was not conducted along party lines and free votes were awarded. Since, extreme elements on both sides have sought to prevent the government from achieving this.

Huge mistakes have been made in the approach, we can all except that, however, as the house as a whole has been unable/unwilling to achieve agreement then it is the failure of that place in its entirety.

[Guest]

Remainers ought to read the kind of state, for that's what it is, they are backing

 

https://brexitcentral.com/mps-dont-deliver-wto-brexit-theyll-allowing-brussels-subvert-economy/

Edited February 27, 2019 by boltondiver

[Tonge moor green jacket]

There's an economic case to be made from both positions: however, after watching the bbc documentary ( yes, even the BBC), the level of rule changing, dodgy deals, bullying and going behind each others backs was a real eye opener.

Once out, irrespective of whatever route we've gone down, there's always opportunity to renegotiate deals, even if they take forever and a day.

If they say we can't, we can just change the rules and say yes we can!

[Ani]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

What has going well got to do with anything? And because it’s become more difficult than it should be does that mean we throw the towel in?

The majority  of the British public want the referendum upheld, my preference is not to have a second vote, because it’ll be even more divisive than the first and will solve nothing.

We cannot allow the EU to influence and bully us in an attempt to subjugate the will of the British public and our democracy,  like they have with every other country who has attempted to leave,  we as a country must see this through. 

My preference is for the government to get TM WA deal through parliament, all be it with a tweak on the backstop. 

 

 

You really can not admit what a farce this has become. But when you see anything wrong simply blame the other side. 

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

You really can not admit what a farce this has become. But when you see anything wrong simply blame the other side. 

Sadly many on the other side are British. 

[Sweep]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

 

The majority  of the British public want the referendum upheld

 

 

If this is the case, then surely you would want a second vote, as "leave" would piss it, and finally shut the "remainers" up, as they would have lost 2:0 - no coming back from that

[Guest]

Just now, Sweep said:

If this is the case, then surely you would want a second vote, as "leave" would piss it, and finally shut the "remainers" up, as they would have lost 2:0 - no coming back from that

More delay = more uncertainty. Needs resolution ASAP, IMO.

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, Sweep said:

If this is the case, then surely you would want a second vote, as "leave" would piss it, and finally shut the "remainers" up, as they would have lost 2:0 - no coming back from that

Only mentalists would want to prolong this by wanting a second referendum........or someone who wants to remain. Mind you think they are one and the same. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Moon boy]

11 minutes ago, Sweep said:

If this is the case, then surely you would want a second vote, as "leave" would piss it, and finally shut the "remainers" up, as they would have lost 2:0 - no coming back from that

1 nil should be enough to win the game

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

1 nil should be enough to win the game

They would change the rules.

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

They would change the rules.

1-1 would be a remain win on away goals or perhapps they’d toss a coin,  but it would be double headed and the EUs call. Of course remainers would say that’s fair. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Comparison with Ipswich and sheepshags. Try to change the rules because the current ones don't suit. And the ref is the biggest cunt ever.

[Jol_BWFC]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Of course I did. However, it broke down upon your insistence that the government had failed if it can't get positive vote by the 29th.

The whole issue was not conducted along party lines and free votes were awarded. Since, extreme elements on both sides have sought to prevent the government from achieving this.

Huge mistakes have been made in the approach, we can all except that, however, as the house as a whole has been unable/unwilling to achieve agreement then it is the failure of that place in its entirety.

If the government can't get TM's deal through, if the government can't get a majority for no deal Brexit, if the government won't agree to a general election and the government won't allow a second referendum, what are the options? 

TM has said that there is no other deal possible and also that a delay won't solve the problem. 

Should parliament take control and ask the Government to step aside?

Something has to give.

[Moon boy]

4 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

If the government can't get TM's deal through, if the government can't get a majority for no deal Brexit, if the government won't agree to a general election and the government won't allow a second referendum, what are the options? 

TM has said that there is no other deal possible and also that a delay won't solve the problem. 

Should parliament take control and ask the Government to step aside?

Something has to give.

Should Parliament take control? And do what?

[Guest]

Just now, Moon boy said:

Should Parliament take control? And do what?

Ensure we remain, obvs

[Jol_BWFC]

19 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Should Parliament take control? And do what?

Agree an alternative Brexit deal that will get Parliamentary approval. 

[Spider]

3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

What has going well got to do with anything? And because it’s become more difficult than it should be does that mean we throw the towel in?

The majority  of the British public want the referendum upheld, my preference is not to have a second vote, because it’ll be even more divisive than the first and will solve nothing.

We cannot allow the EU to influence and bully us in an attempt to subjugate the will of the British public and our democracy,  like they have with every other country who has attempted to leave,  we as a country must see this through. 

My preference is for the government to get TM WA deal through parliament, all be it with a tweak on the backstop. 

 

 

Fully agree with this and as such, have had to go for a lie down.😊

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said:

Agree an alternative Brexit deal that will get Parliamentary approval. 

All well and good. Should have done this ages ago. However parliament has shown little or no will to do this.

It is the government's responsibility to do the negotiating; but when the opposition introduce "six tests" which every commentator I've heard and a number of their own front benchers admit were unworkable, then it doesn't look good for agreement within the hoc.

Chuck in the erg on one side and the screechers on the other...

They all have a lot to answer for.

[fatolive]

How will it be remainers fault if this gets delayed ?as it was equally hard line Brexiteers who blocked leave deals over the period , deals the most vocal brexiteers on here stated they’d be happy with at the time 

remainers didn’t campaign for a back stop for example ? 

[Mounts Kipper]

9 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said:

Agree an alternative Brexit deal that will get Parliamentary approval. 

It would certainly be interesting but my worry is the only thing they’d get a majority to agree on is staying. 

[Salford Trotter]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

All well and good. Should have done this ages ago. However parliament has shown little or no will to do this.

It is the government's responsibility to do the negotiating; but when the opposition introduce "six tests" which every commentator I've heard and a number of their own front benchers admit were unworkable, then it doesn't look good for agreement within the hoc.

Chuck in the erg on one side and the screechers on the other...

They all have a lot to answer for.

I agree, the expectations that we could bulldoze our way through the EU in the negotiations because it was in both our intetests to do so was nonsensical at best. The 27 had so much more to lose so were always in the driving seat imo. Taking a luke warm TM deal back to parliament, with the wildly different agendas, was never going to gain a majority. There is talk now that on 12th that there maybe a consensus around May's deal which in my view (and many others) is not what anyone wanted. It doesn't free us from the shackles of the ECJ, the common rulebook and we get no say in changing that. Now on to the hard bit

Edited February 28, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

All well and good. Should have done this ages ago. However parliament has shown little or no will to do this.

It is the government's responsibility to do the negotiating; but when the opposition introduce "six tests" which every commentator I've heard and a number of their own front benchers admit were unworkable, then it doesn't look good for agreement within the hoc.

Chuck in the erg on one side and the screechers on the other...

They all have a lot to answer for.

The government (or more accurately the PM) have failed to negotiate and instead put up obstacles that has meant only this deal is possible. The Labour deal (as the EU has said) is more than possible - and carries a likely majority in the house - IF the government supported it. 

When are you going to face up to the fact that this situation is a failure of Brexiteers and the government and nobody else? Its been screaming you in the face for for 2 years. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, fatolive said:

How will it be remainers fault if this gets delayed ?as it was equally hard line Brexiteers who blocked leave deals over the period , deals the most vocal brexiteers on here stated they’d be happy with at the time 

remainers didn’t campaign for a back stop for example ? 

It's the fault of all of them. The mitigating factor for the erg is that their view still upholds the referendum result. Not convinced of their position personally, but there'll always be different views on the leave methods. Hence the need for a compromise.

Certain remainers have clearly attempted to subvert the process.

I've heard on a couple of occasions an MP openly admit, during debates that the wouldn't vote for any deal. Well at least they were honest I suppose, but they should not be taking that position within the ranks of a political party that stood on a leave manifesto.