Politics

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Most boring cunts in the world usually mention chlorinated chicken and the side of the bus in their pro remain bollocks. Get a fucking life you whoppers. 

And what about the biggest lie of all?

Massive, immediate recession should a leave vote occur.

Despite any evidence to prove it.

But, as it couldn't be 100% proven (no parallel universe) as bollocks, it became project fucking disaster.

Yet folk still chose to ignore it- wonder fucking why?

Intelligentsia 0-1 plebs.

 

[Salford Trotter]

Touchy touchy... Time for a chill pill Mounts

[paulhanley]

16 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

And what about the biggest lie of all?

Massive, immediate recession should a leave vote occur.

Despite any evidence to prove it.

But, as it couldn't be 100% proven (no parallel universe) as bollocks, it became project fucking disaster.

Yet folk still chose to ignore it- wonder fucking why?

Intelligentsia 0-1 plebs.

 

Indeed. The list of George Osborne's threats was long and dark. None of it has happened. But hey - in remoanerworld lies are only spoken by people who voted leave while waving their pitchforks and betraying their lack of sophistication and education.

Delusion, double standards and hypocrisy from people who have a world view that they thought could never be challenged. It's now under massive challenge and will remain so. And they just cannot cope. The self appointed intelligentsia, under siege.

[Moon boy]

3 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

A point being made by those in the know on twitter now...

The upshot of this is that IF we agree an extension we are bound by international law NOT to leave on 29th March with no deal regardless of any change or not to UK law. Once May agrees to extension the only ways we can leave is following the deal being passed by parliament and the subsequent legislation going through commons and lords - ie via a deal or via no deal on the end of the extension date. 

And you’re happy with this

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Paul, early on in all this, I gave one of my major reasons for leaving, as environmental- the county cannot cope with a population increase at the rate it currently is.

To cut a long story short, the top man in the environment agency has now said that with climate change and population growth, we will struggle to supply sufficient water within 25 years.

It's quite fundamental really, we have to take measures now. Whatever pretext (racism etc) we are accused of adopting, migration must be controlled, and by doing so sooner and gradually, that can mitigate, any economic (labour supply) issues that may occur (though I don't believe they will be that bad anyhow)

[Sweep]

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

 

If people like you got your way many if not most of those 17.4m would never vote in any type of election every again, such would be their anger.

As I said earlier, so what, who cares if some people decide not to vote again.... And I think we should leave. I just think these cunts who say "I'll never vote again" are over playing their importance in the grand scheme of things

 

[paulhanley]

4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Paul, early on in all this, I gave one of my major reasons for leaving, as environmental- the county cannot cope with a population increase at the rate it currently is.

To cut a long story short, the top man in the environment agency has now said that with climate change and population growth, we will struggle to supply sufficient water within 25 years.

It's quite fundamental really, we have to take measures now. Whatever pretext (racism etc) we are accused of adopting, migration must be controlled, and by doing so sooner and gradually, that can mitigate, any economic (labour supply) issues that may occur (though I don't believe they will be that bad anyhow)

Any country in the world needs a sensible immigration policy that suits its own needs. It can be adjusted as those needs change and vary. That simple statement does not fit in with the sacrosanct world view previously described. Hence you are a racist and an extremist, sir. Simples.

[paulhanley]

Just now, Sweep said:

As I said earlier, so what, who cares if some people decide not to vote again.... And I think we should leave. I just think these cunts who say "I'll never vote again" are over playing their importance in the grand scheme of things

 

What's the point in voting if your vote ends up being the winning side but the outcome gets ignored? It's not really difficult to understand why people would say they'll never vote again.

[Sweep]

PH, out of interest, what are your views on Mays deal, are you happy with it? Or would you rather go WTO?

[Sweep]

Just now, paulhanley said:

What's the point in voting if your vote ends up being the winning side but the outcome gets ignored? It's not really difficult to understand why people would say they'll never vote again.

I'm sure they'll get over it soon enough. It might take 3 or 4 generations, but everything will return back to normal within 50 years or so

[paulhanley]

Just now, Sweep said:

PH, out of interest, what are your views on Mays deal, are you happy with it? Or would you rather go WTO?

I'd rather go WTO. I'm no victim of Project Fear in terms of the consequences of a clean break. However I am becoming frightened that Brexit won't happen at all. 

[paulhanley]

Just now, Sweep said:

I'm sure they'll get over it soon enough. It might take 3 or 4 generations, but everything will return back to normal within 50 years or so

I think you're saying that ironically. I hope so. 

[Sweep]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

I'd rather go WTO. I'm no victim of Project Fear in terms of the consequences of a clean break. However I am becoming frightened that Brexit won't happen at all. 

It'll happen, but it'll take until around 2023, it's certainly not happening this month

[Farrelli]

11 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Paul, early on in all this, I gave one of my major reasons for leaving, as environmental- the county cannot cope with a population increase at the rate it currently is.

To cut a long story short, the top man in the environment agency has now said that with climate change and population growth, we will struggle to supply sufficient water within 25 years.

It's quite fundamental really, we have to take measures now. Whatever pretext (racism etc) we are accused of adopting, migration must be controlled, and by doing so sooner and gradually, that can mitigate, any economic (labour supply) issues that may occur (though I don't believe they will be that bad anyhow)

The EU has been a big driver of improved environmental controls, cleaner water, tighter legislation and polluter pays principle.

 

 

On 14/03/2019 at 22:54, birch-chorley said:

 

 

[Sweep]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

I think you're saying that ironically. I hope so. 

😊

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

And here we get to the heart of the sheer remoaner arrogance. Let's cut to the chase. You'd go to a court of law to stop Brexit because you disagree with the outcome of a referendum in which 17.4m voted the opposite way to you. Now let me think ... what might it be that undemocratic people like you like about the undemocratic EU? 

If you cannot see the corrosive effects that casually disregarding the outcome of such a momentous vote would have then I really do think there is a place for you somewhere in Brussels technocracy. You are tailor made.

If people like you got your way many if not most of those 17.4m would never vote in any type of election every again, such would be their anger. You clearly don't care about that. Instead you continue to do what you've done for two years  - label people thick and brand arguments made with which you disagree as "lies". It is almost Stalinist in its haughty intolerance of opinions other than your own. I strongly suggest you google the phrase "liberal bigot". 

Listen, I’ve not been anywhere to stop anything.

MPs should have voted for the WA last week and we’d not be in this mess. But Brexiteer MPs decided not to vote for Brexit inspite of May warning them that to do so was to risk this exact mess. I don’t like Theresa but for once she was spot on.

But the lies are hugely apparent. You can’t pretend they aren’t. From the bus to ‘the EU will be falling over themselves to give us a deal if will be so easy’. There are loads of them. Economically coming out is not good. Had Brexiteers been honest that yes, economically it’s a hit but politically long term we will be better off there might be a sensible Brexit now. But because they pretended it was all things to all people you could never square that circle. And that is the real problem now...

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

It'll happen, but it'll take until around 2023, it's certainly not happening this month

By 2023 the EU will be in a serious mess for reasons other than Brexit - and the sense of leaving the EU will be much more clear.

[paulhanley]

2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Listen, I’ve not been anywhere to stop anything.

MPs should have voted for the WA last week and we’d not be in this mess. But Brexiteer MPs decided not to vote for Brexit inspite of May warning them that to do so was to risk this exact mess. I don’t like Theresa but for once she was spot on.

But the lies are hugely apparent. You can’t pretend they aren’t. From the bus to ‘the EU will be falling over themselves to give us a deal if will be so easy’. There are loads of them. Economically coming out is not good. Had Brexiteers been honest that yes, economically it’s a hit but politically long term we will be better off there might be a sensible Brexit now. But because they pretended it was all things to all people you could never square that circle. And that is the real problem now...

I've written elsewhere about the economic benefits to be had of leaving the EU and we've had a discussion earlier in this thread about Project Fear and the way George Osborne's list of doom has totally failed to materialise. Then there's the litany of nonsense spoken by Europhiles from John Major's days right through the Blair era and beyond. Like I said to you before - John Major's "bastards"  - Nicholas Budgen, Bill Cash and the like have been right all along about the EU, the democratic deficit and the economic drawbacks. We only escaped the Euro by the skin of our teeth because there were enough people at the time who saw what a mess it would turn out to be.  And my goodness, what a mess. There's plenty with your perspective on the world who'd have had us in the Euro in a heartbeat. So the problem is your side of the debate's continued failure to understand that your arguments are on quicksand as well as the sanctimonious arrogance with which such views are held. You've been sussed.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

The EU has been a big driver of improved environmental controls, cleaner water, tighter legislation and polluter pays principle.

 

 

 

Quite. Which are being shifted over in SIs.

Not relevant to the point I made though.

We have less than half the wooded areas of countries like France.

We are completely surrounded by sea, meaning more unusable land for housing.

Also have huge upland areas of peat land some of which has previously been drained and needs re-wetting. Also large areas need re planting.

Insufficient space to build the homes needed now, let alone those in the future.

So where are the reservoirs of the future going to go?

Rivers with 80% less water in last year because of warm weather and water extraction.

The list goes on if you care to look. That's only for water, what about power?

[Salford Trotter]

8 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Quite. Which are being shifted over in SIs.

Not relevant to the point I made though.

We have less than half the wooded areas of countries like France.

We are completely surrounded by sea, meaning more unusable land for housing.

Also have huge upland areas of peat land some of which has previously been drained and needs re-wetting. Also large areas need re planting.

Insufficient space to build the homes needed now, let alone those in the future.

So where are the reservoirs of the future going to go?

Rivers with 80% less water in last year because of warm weather and water extraction.

The list goes on if you care to look. That's only for water, what about power?

Can't we invest in desalinisation plants, it's not as if we are landlocked.?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

11 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Can't we invest in desalinisation plants, it's not as if we are landlocked.?

Woah. Costs, and need power?

Overpopulation also brings more flooding as housing is built on unsuitable flood plains.

Traditional building also causes water to be lost from surface to drains and hence downstream. Should be wetting the land itself which acts as a natural way of mitigating flood risks.

Insurance costs will soar meaning some won't be able to afford it, or it won't be available.

The economic impact of otherwise of a few years post brexit will be miniscule, compared to what could happen if we carry on blindly.

[Farrelli]

23 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Quite. Which are being shifted over in SIs.

Not relevant to the point I made though.

 

Of course. I'm just highlighting an area that we benefitted significantly from being part of the EU. There are many issues going forward and hopefully we will still work together with our failing neighbours.

[Moon boy]

14 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Listen, I’ve not been anywhere to stop anything.

MPs should have voted for the WA last week and we’d not be in this mess. But Brexiteer MPs decided not to vote for Brexit inspite of May warning them that to do so was to risk this exact mess. I don’t like Theresa but for once she was spot on.

But the lies are hugely apparent. You can’t pretend they aren’t. From the bus to ‘the EU will be falling over themselves to give us a deal if will be so easy’. There are loads of them. Economically coming out is not good. Had Brexiteers been honest that yes, economically it’s a hit but politically long term we will be better off there might be a sensible Brexit now. But because they pretended it was all things to all people you could never square that circle. And that is the real problem now...

“But Brexiteer MP’s decided not to vote for Brexit”  

 Mays deal stems from the the Chequers weekend where, with the help of Robbins and the Civil Servant negotiators, the direction of travel changed completely to such an extent that the then Brexit Minister, David Davies, who was appointed by May at the start, resigned because this deal had been done behind his back and against his beliefs. Several other Cabinet ministers resigned at that point also.

This was the point where a backable deal was lost

May’s deal has lost 2 votes because it is a shit deal, most Remainers love this because it causes chaos and muddies the water in the hope that Leavers will give up and capitulate 

At the moment Parliament and the ‘Elite’ have the upper hand but sooner rather than later we will have to have a General Election and that will be another opportunity for Leavers to express their view, and I hope the outcome will be more Democratic than it is at the moment

If we can’t/won’t leave on March29th I hope the EU delay it for 2 years

[bwfcfan5]

29 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I've written elsewhere about the economic benefits to be had of leaving the EU and we've had a discussion earlier in this thread about Project Fear and the way George Osborne's list of doom has totally failed to materialise. Then there's the litany of nonsense spoken by Europhiles from John Major's days right through the Blair era and beyond. Like I said to you before - John Major's "bastards"  - Nicholas Budgen, Bill Cash and the like have been right all along about the EU, the democratic deficit and the economic drawbacks. We only escaped the Euro by the skin of our teeth because there were enough people at the time who saw what a mess it would turn out to be.  And my goodness, what a mess. There's plenty with your perspective on the world who'd have had us in the Euro in a heartbeat. So the problem is your side of the debate's continued failure to understand that your arguments are on quicksand as well as the sanctimonious arrogance with which such views are held. You've been sussed.

Your attempts to polarise are silly. I certainly never wanted us in the Euro. I don’t particularly want to be in the EU but I’m pragmatic enough to know that our economy is greatly benefitted through membership of the SM and CU. And EU membership is the price for those massive trading benefits. For me that hugely overrides the negative aspects. For you it doesn’t. I think there is a sensible compromise if people worked together to find it.

[paulhanley]

3 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

“But Brexiteer MP’s decided not to vote for Brexit”  

 Mays deal stems from the the Chequers weekend where, with the help of Robbins and the Civil Servant negotiators, the direction of travel changed completely to such an extent that the then Brexit Minister, David Davies, who was appointed by May at the start, resigned because this deal had been done behind his back and against his beliefs. Several other Cabinet ministers resigned at that point also.

This was the point where a backable deal was lost

May’s deal has lost 2 votes because it is a shit deal, most Remainers love this because it causes chaos and muddies the water in the hope that Leavers will give up and capitulate 

At the moment Parliament and the ‘Elite’ have the upper hand but sooner rather than later we will have to have a General Election and that will be another opportunity for Leavers to express their view, and I hope the outcome will be more Democratic than it is at the moment

If we can’t/won’t leave on March29th I hope the EU delay it for 2 years

Yep. The quick wins of the current remainer parliamentary pantomime are all lodging in the memory back - and they'll amount to one almighty loss when us plebs get a look in.