Politics

[Not in Crawley]

I don’t disagree that something has the change, the post-war ‘agreement’, which I think those of us born from 45-82 thought would hold firm is being questioned. That in, and of itself is not a bad thing at all. The idea that the whole of humanity would coalesce around what is essentially a capitalist, liberal narrative was Western arrogance - although believe me I didn’t see any change, I was signed up to Fukuyama’s narrative as much as the next white, liberal middle class male.

I’m on the record on this thread before saying how much the entrenched London elite were in shock - and had real arguments about who they fail to understand that the rest of the country struggles. My other half comes from a council estate in Durham and these last few years have been fucking painful. I get it, at last they hear, at last your way hasn’t worked for us. They are the same as those they despise and ridicule- but they’re smug with it. 

Both extremes are just as bad, the painful Cambridge based EU hat wearing divs on marches, and the planks trying to recreate the Jarrow march (actually historically that was pretty offensive) 

The idea that any ‘side’ has the truth, or indeed that there really are sides are what is really causing this country to be fractured and in any schism certain people rise to exploit a vacuum.

I still believe in England and the English. I see great stuff all the time from us all from The Lark Ascending to Common People, from funny cockneys to miserable Yorkshire folk. (Sorry another edit - this also includes 1st/2nd/3rd generation immigration that has made our little island much better - from Brixton to Barnsley)  This land is your land. Don’t fuck it up. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Not in Crawley

[Mounts Kipper]

I see change uk had a handful of  folk in the audience last night while the Brexit party getting thousands night in night out. Gonna smash the EU vote next week. Can’t wait. 

[Not in Crawley]

28 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

You’ve answered your own question, ‘in the last 40 years............., do you mean while we’ve been a member of the EU

Disparity in areas of the U.K. has obvious all my life (65 years), it’s nothing to do with our membership of a failed cartel

I do get you are pissed off, just at the wrong people.

So, how is leaving the EU going to ensure fair distribution of wealth in the UK?

[Not in Crawley]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I see change uk had a handful of  folk in the audience last night while the Brexit party getting thousands night in night out. Gonna smash the EU vote next week. Can’t wait. 

Once you’ve won (again) what’s the plan?

[Mounts Kipper]

Just now, Not in Crawley said:

Once you’ve won (again) what’s the plan?

Keep winning. 👍

[Cheese]

27 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

You’ve answered your own question, ‘in the last 40 years............., do you mean while we’ve been a member of the EU

Disparity in areas of the U.K. has obvious all my life (65 years), it’s nothing to do with our membership of a failed cartel

Our EU membership has done more for those deprived areas than any of our governments have done. The EU is not a foreign power. If you think those areas will get the same investment when we become a 3rd country, you are seriously deluded. 

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Keep winning. 👍

Ok, to what end?

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Keep winning. 👍

Keep winning competitions in which the prize is a kick in the nuts. At least you can say you "won" though. That's obviously very important to you. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Cheese

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Ok, to what end?

It really doesn't matter to these people. Being able to say "My side won" is more important than anything else.

[Mounts Kipper]

6 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Ok, to what end?

Getting us out of the EU. 

[Not in Crawley]

Just now, Cheese said:

It really doesn't matter to these people. Being able to say "My side won" is more important than anything else.

Yes but that is also completely ok. Years and years of not being listened to, told opinions don’t matter and wealth just dripping to the south east entitled. Labour wanting people like me rather than their real base.

Mount’s anger I get, and if I was him I’d be fucking lording it. I don’t agree with it, but I won’t dismiss what he is feeling. 

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Getting us out of the EU. 

That’s not an end though, it’s the start apparently.

What’s the strategy? 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Not in Crawley

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

That’s not an end though.

What’s the strategy? 

The end game is to get out, the strategy is keep the pressure on by winning votes in EU elections and getting representation in HOC. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[ZiggyStardust]

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

If in the last 40 years the disparity in areas of the UK has grown worse, mainly due to government policies on wealth generation being ploughed into white collar sectors, why do you think this will change if we’re not in the EU?

So you are saying that in the last 40 years, money that would be better spent on the poorer areas has been sent to the EU ?

 

[Not in Crawley]

That’s not a strategy - it’s a continuation of the original point

So, once you’ve done all this, why? What’s the future hold? What’s the plan? 

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, ZiggyStardust said:

So you are saying that in the last 40 years, money that would be better spent on the poorer areas has been sent to the EU ?

 

When did any government invest match funding to the levels that we did as the European Union in the poorest levels in this country?

[Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Yes but that is also completely ok. Years and years of not being listened to, told opinions don’t matter and wealth just dripping to the south east entitled. Labour wanting people like me rather than their real base.

Mount’s anger I get, and if I was him I’d be fucking lording it. I don’t agree with it, but I won’t dismiss what he is feeling. 

That would make more sense if Mounts was living in poverty on a council estate with no prospects. The reality is quite the opposite. 

[Mounts Kipper]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

That would make more sense if Mounts was living in poverty on a council estate with no prospects. The reality is quite the opposite. 

Been there done that. 

[Mounts Kipper]

8 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

When did any government invest match funding to the levels that we did as the European Union in the poorest levels in this country?

Read that 5 times WTF does it mean? 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Been there done that. 

I'm sure you have. And yet you managed to flourish and become relatively wealthy, enjoying the benefits you now wish to take away from others.

Then retire to an EU country to enjoy your retirement. 

[Mounts Kipper]

Just now, Cheese said:

I'm sure you have. And yet you managed to flourish and become relatively wealthy, enjoying the benefits you now wish to take away from others.

Then retire to an EU country to enjoy your retirement. 

Give over leaving EU won’t effect anyone’s ability to work hard and get on. That’s where we differ. 

[miamiwhite]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Give over leaving EU won’t effect anyone’s ability to work hard and get on. That’s where we differ. 

Ignore that twat mate. I’ve only been “lucky” to see his reply due to the quote button.

He’s an utter prick.

On the other hand mate, I’ve known you nigh on 40 years and know where you were brought up etc, and you’ve been raised brilliantly and done well for yourself in life, every credit to you G, you’re a top man and a gent.

You don’t need to explain yourself to an utter faceless shithouse like him.

[Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Give over leaving EU won’t effect anyone’s ability to work hard and get on. That’s where we differ. 

Tell that to sweatshop workers doing 18 hour shifts at sewing machines in Mumbai.

You reaped the rewards of a stable economy, but now you want to trash it for the next generation because you don't like the social diversity that came with it. At least be honest. 

[Cheese]

Just now, miamiwhite said:

You don’t need to explain yourself to an utter faceless shithouse like him.

Does your birth certificate say "miamiwhite"? 

[Not in Crawley]

14 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Read that 5 times WTF does it mean? 

Ok, pedantic. When in our lifetime has any government led match or structural funding in the poorest areas of our country to ensure the whole nation is balanced?

its a nonsense- we are such a small island and it takes shifts by media companies like the BBC (an NDPB) and private (or joint funded) to re-located to make reinvestment. Fine for Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds - and even better for those skilled in that sector -but what about Oldham, Blackpool, Barnsley - it’s not the EU’s fault that in a small island in such close proximity we have such failings.

Stop looking for simple answers to really complex problems.