Politics

[frank_spencer]

30 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

We have all the planes. 

Spitfires all round!

[Ani]

Anyone who thinks Boris Farage and JRM have the interests of working northerners at the heart of anything they do is totally deluded. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

Leavers day that if you look at the referendum forms there was no mention of Deal/No deal

and on that basis no deal is ok. 

But on the same logic people saying we should do a deal must be ok as we never defined what Leave meant. 

 

I get your logic, but I disagree that it was anything approaching Brexit

[Salford Trotter]

10 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

I get your logic, but I disagree that it was anything approaching Brexit

Johnson and Mogg thought so

[bwfcfan5]

16 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

I get your logic, but I disagree that it was anything approaching Brexit

Because pre election Brexit was keeping access to single market and customs union without having to accept freedom of movement or customs checks. And when people said that wouldn’t be possible people like you said it was project fear and the German car market would sort it all out. 

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, Casino said:

If mogg and his twats had voted for Mays deal, we would be out

That's where you need to direct your ire

She shouldve kicked them out of the party, that seems to be the way of things

A few public school boys Fcuking our country over

Who wouldve ever thought

 

 

Btw, I've never voted anything other than Tory

I won't be voting for what bozo is creating

You are in the minority of Tory voters with that view, and there’s loads of northern /midlands labour voters will vote either Tory or BXP to more than negate your non Tory vote. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Salford Trotter]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You are in the minority of Tory voters with that view, and there’s loads of northern /midlands labour voters will vote either Tory or BXP to more than negate your non Tory vote. 

No where near as many as you think, I reckon 15 to 20% of Labour voters will vote Tory this time only and there will be plenty disenfranchised Tory voters voting for Lib Dems for the next few elections until the Tory's get their heart back

[Mounts Kipper]

14 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

No where near as many as you think, I reckon 15 to 20% of Labour voters will vote Tory this time only and there will be plenty disenfranchised Tory voters voting for Lib Dems for the next few elections until the Tory's get their heart back

We will see. Tory voters returning from BXP now that the Tories have a proper leave leader. One issue is how many Tory seats will fall in Scotland. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We will see. Tory voters returning from BXP now that the Tories have a proper leave leader. One issue is how many Tory seats will fall in Scotland. 

With the experience of the referendum campaign, they should be able to demolish Corbyn before an election.

Lib Dems would be subject to emotional criticism because of a certain amount of duplicitous behaviour.

Laura trott (not that one, Cameron's former advisor) appears quite frequently on breakfast TV.

She said Cummins is a really bright fella, etc. Presumably he'd be behind a campaign.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Johnson and Mogg thought so

Check your facts, though.

You won't, of course, but why did Mogg (and a number of others) vote the WA, after not voting for it the first/second time around?

[Salford Trotter]

20 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We will see. Tory voters returning from BXP now that the Tories have a proper leave leader. One issue is how many Tory seats will fall in Scotland. 

A few pages back I gave my view on the impact of the current fiasco on Tory seats in Scotland and the South. My estimation they will lose around 35 seats to the SNP and the Lib Dems and given the No Deal Brexit stance they could lose even more. I just can't see your scenario of a Tory majority

[Salford Trotter]

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Check your facts, though.

You won't, of course, but why did Mogg (and a number of others) vote the WA, after not voting for it the first/second time around?

They voted for May's deal as did Raab, Gove and most of the cabinet. What facts do I need to check? 

[Salford Trotter]

17 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

With the experience of the referendum campaign, they should be able to demolish Corbyn before an election.

Lib Dems would be subject to emotional criticism because of a certain amount of duplicitous behaviour.

Laura trott (not that one, Cameron's former advisor) appears quite frequently on breakfast TV.

She said Cummins is a really bright fella, etc. Presumably he'd be behind a campaign.

Bright enough to lose Johnson his first three votes as PM, the worst record of any new PM since the 16th century I understand. If you want to watch the dismantling of a party first hand by a bunch of extreme Tory zealots then watch the job Johnson's puppeteer is doing

[Moon boy]

3 hours ago, Casino said:

It wasn't your brexit

Which isn't the same thing

But if you want to polish moggs shoes, you crack on

It wasn’t anybody’s Brexit, Parliament rejected it THREE times both Leavers and Remainers

[Moon boy]

37 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

A few pages back I gave my view on the impact of the current fiasco on Tory seats in Scotland and the South. My estimation they will lose around 35 seats to the SNP and the Lib Dems and given the No Deal Brexit stance they could lose even more. I just can't see your scenario of a Tory majority

Well can we have GE on October 15th and find out if your theory is correct 

[Sweep]

3 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Well can we have GE on October 15th and find out if your theory is correct 

We could... But the majority of those in the HoC don't want it then, so you'll have to wait until they're ready. Sadly, that's how it works.

[Moon boy]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

We could... But the majority of those in the HoC don't want it then, so you'll have to wait until they're ready. Sadly, that's how it works.

Why don’t they want it on that date?

[paulhanley]

Having spent two years demanding a general election on an almost daily basis, Jeremy Corbyn and the remain zealots who pull his strings have now voted to block one. The opposition parties that accuse Boris Johnson of mounting a coup refuse to let him seek a mandate. MPs are now in the bizarre position of propping up a Government they have calculatedly undermined for the sole purpose of overturning a referendum whose result they repeatedly promised to respect even if they disagreed with it. And then they have the hubris to portray themselves as the democrats. The contortions are incredible. 

What is happening now is a long overdue realignment in British politics. The Conservative party is at last becoming the party of nation and casting aside liberalism. It isn't "far right" in any economic sense - far right parties don't splurge billions on public services as announced by Sajid Javid last week. It is certainly right wing in a social sense - and the opinion polls increasingly show a very positive response to this. 

The current zombie parliament (the longest since 1640) with its remain majority is out of step with the nation and is at the end of its days, thrashing around like a drowning man. It is  like a beleagured batsman trying to bat out the last day of a test, playing for time trying to stave off inevitability and using every bit of chicanery going. The Tory party will select leavers as parliamentary candidates (as I pointed out on here months and months ago). The only thing to stop a comfortable leave majority in the next parliament is the lack of a pact between the Brexit Party and the Conservatives. Reality is dawning on this - talks have taken place between the ERG and Nigel Farage. 

The Europhiles have been wrong about everything since the Exchange Rate Mechanism fiasco of the early 1990s and their confident predictions that the Euro was a wonderful thing to join. They're still wrong. They're still in denial. Inevitability is coming. Britain will leave the EU. It is a matter of when not if. And history will not be kind to the likes of Hammond, Swinson, Cooper, Gauke and Blackford.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Well can we have GE on October 15th and find out if your theory is correct 

It's also not a Tory stance to push purely for no deal either.

Whilst it's temporarily taken away, it only increases its likelihood.

The only way we'll know for sure just what the government's real desire is, is to go and and do negotiating fully armed.

Then it's not guaranteed to get through, because of the remain focussed MPs.

Seems like an election is imperative.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Paul, Soubry must be top of that list.

[Jol_BWFC]

50 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Bright enough to lose Johnson his first three votes as PM, the worst record of any new PM since the 16th century I understand. If you want to watch the dismantling of a party first hand by a bunch of extreme Tory zealots then watch the job Johnson's puppeteer is doing

I think Cummins’ plan is actually coming together. He isn’t there to help the Conservative party (nor is Bojo); he is there to help Boris win the election.

I suspect his game plan is make Boris look like the voice of democracy, standing up against the establishment. That includes standing up against “treacherous Tories”. Think Trump and “drain the swamp”.

Given that the election is about Brexit more than party politics, he just needs to stick to claiming he will deliver Brexit (whether he can or not). The more that PMs try and stop it, the stronger his personal USP becomes. Labour joining Lib Dems to back remain has helped him further - splitting the strong remain vote. He will be loving Corbyn’s current stance.

That’s why I said above, I don’t think the conservatives collapsing is necessarily an issue for him. He is making this election Brexit Boris v the undemocratic rest.

His challenge (Scotland aside) will be managing seats with the Brexit Party in order to deliver a Tory majority.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Jol_BWFC

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Seems reasonable jol. I certainly think Boris wants to get brexit done, but it's appearing that it's going to need an election to do it.

[Salford Trotter]

27 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Well can we have GE on October 15th and find out if your theory is correct 

It won't happen, Johnson (or if he isn't man enough to do it someone else in the Gvt) will be asking for an extension. I suspect there will be an election in November or December  where the fight can be slugged out

Edited September 8, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[paulhanley]

13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Paul, Soubry must be top of that list.

Well she certainly shares top place with a number of like minds!

[Salford Trotter]

11 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

I think Cummins’ plan is actually coming together. He isn’t there to help the Conservative party (nor is Bojo); he is there to help Boris win the election.

I suspect his game plan is make Boris look like the voice of democracy, standing up against the establishment. That includes standing up against “treacherous Tories”. Think Trump and “drain the swamp”.

Given that the election is about Brexit more than party politics, he just needs to stick to claiming he will deliver Brexit (whether he can or not). The more that PMs try and stop it, the stronger his personal USP becomes. Labour joining Lib Dems to back remain has helped him further - splitting the strong remain vote. He will be loving Corbyn’s current stance.

That’s why I said above, I don’t think the conservatives collapsing is necessarily an issue for him. He is making this election Brexit Boris v the undemocratic rest.

His challenge (Scotland aside) will be managing seats with the Brexit Party in order to deliver a Tory majority.

If the election is campaigned on a No Deal Brexit by Johnson then I don't believe he will have as much support as he expects. The electorate are more clued up on the economic implications of a No Deal exit and they know the carnage that would ensue thereafter. Also as you say, a lot depends on the way the labour and Lib Dems work together and for both parties to put so much energy into stopping No Deal but to abandon it when a GE comes along seems futile to me. The Brecon by election demonstrated what is possible with political co-operation so we will soon see how determined both sides are to get the outcome they want