Jump to content
Wanderers Ways - passion not fashion
miamiwhite

In Or Out Again

Recommended Posts

There is too much posturing and lots of dicking around, I agree. But the Government were the ones who made the decision not to allow all those EU citizens currently in the U.K. to stay after we leave the EU. I don't see how the blame can lie directly with Barnier and be nothing to do with the Government, as was suggested elsewhere in this thread.

I thought that our gov't had made it clear that the EU citizens would be allowed to stay here so long as there was a reciprocal move by the EU towards British citizens in the EU.

 

Since it seems that the EU are dragging their feet in making that reciprocal arrangement it would be fair to blame Barnier/EU for the hold up in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that our gov't had made it clear that the EU citizens would be allowed to stay here so long as there was a reciprocal move by the EU towards British citizens in the EU.

 

Since it seems that the EU are dragging their feet in making that reciprocal arrangement it would be fair to blame Barnier/EU for the hold up in this case.

 

I've just been speaking our man who he thinks to blame - he just said "I don't know, your government are idiots, the Spanish government are idiots and the EU are idiots"  -  it made me laugh.

 

Interestingly, he can see why the UK has chosen to leave the EU and he doesn't have a problem with it, his issue seems to be the amount of fucking about, and the fact that over a year after the vote, still not a single thing is sorted out. He's not wrong with that either, I remember a few days after the vote, the likes of Maggie Tate were saying we definitely hold all the cards and the EU would see sense and acquiesce to our demands and everythign would be sorted very quickly (I think he mentioned within 2 weeks) , I wonder if he's changed his mind yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that our gov't had made it clear that the EU citizens would be allowed to stay here so long as there was a reciprocal move by the EU towards British citizens in the EU.

 

Since it seems that the EU are dragging their feet in making that reciprocal arrangement it would be fair to blame Barnier/EU for the hold up in this case.

The Government paper published in June referred to "Settled Status" for those who have been here 5 years only. (There are separate arrangements for people who have been here less than 5 years).

 

You're right that the Goverment said arrangements would apply only if there is a reciprocal arrangement for UK citizens in the EU. However, my understanding is that the government is only offering that 5-year settled status if reciprocity is achieved. I don't think they have any plans to offer guaranteed rights to remain for those here less than 5 years no matter what rights UK citizens are given abroad. So it would seem this chap who is off to France is off because of his worry about the Government's 5-year policy.

 

I could have misread something, mind.

Edited by Jol_BWFC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just been speaking our man who he thinks to blame - he just said "I don't know, your government are idiots, the Spanish government are idiots and the EU are idiots"  -  it made me laugh.

 

 

Well he's spot on there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its clear we are in a very weak position indeed. Whole thing is a mess. Absolutely nothing sorted and the clock is ticking. I can see Davis suddenly having a period of 'sickness absence' soon. Nobody will want responsibility for this utter shambles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just been speaking our man who he thinks to blame - he just said "I don't know, your government are idiots, the Spanish government are idiots and the EU are idiots" - it made me laugh.

Haha, very good. You did say he was a bright chap!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Davies couldn't negotiate a blob of brown sauce onto his bacon barm, he favvers my ex mother-in-law an' all. Sack the cunt and get that Ken Clarke on the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Davies started off looking like the real deal.....less so now I think, I reckon he's got his eye on the top job

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Davies started off looking like the real deal.....less so now I think, I reckon he's got his eye on the top job

What a frightening thought. Man is absolutely inept. Looks like he's going to cry everytime he realises he created this mess and now has the responsibility to fix it. I think it has dawned on him that his bluff has well and truly been called. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Davies started off looking like the real deal.....less so now I think, I reckon he's got his eye on the top job

 

He is David Davis (David TC Davies is a different Tory MP).

Don't forget he was the one who stood against that young upstart Cameron for the leadership back in 2005.

His speech to Conference was so poor that even you could have got more votes than he did.

[and we would now be in a wholly different mess]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Government paper published in June referred to "Settled Status" for those who have been here 5 years only. (There are separate arrangements for people who have been here less than 5 years).

 

You're right that the Goverment said arrangements would apply only if there is a reciprocal arrangement for UK citizens in the EU. However, my understanding is that the government is only offering that 5-year settled status if reciprocity is achieved. I don't think they have any plans to offer guaranteed rights to remain for those here less than 5 years no matter what rights UK citizens are given abroad. So it would seem this chap who is off to France is off because of his worry about the Government's 5-year policy.

 

I could have misread something, mind.

Ah right, there's a grey area for those who've been here for less than 5 years.

 

My guess would be that it will finish up that anyone who has been here for a much shorter period ( from before the referendum maybe ) will be allowed to stay but it's not surprising that they're unsettled by the uncertainty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet there's a lot of Brits working in the EU who are looking over their shoulders to see what shit is coming down the line, and a lot of company's also looking to see what hoops they have to jump through for them to be able to move people in and out of the UK, and then to decide if will be easier just move them self out of the UK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet there's a lot of Brits working in the EU who are looking over their shoulders to see what shit is coming down the line, and a lot of company's also looking to see what hoops they have to jump through for them to be able to move people in and out of the UK, and then to decide if will be easier just move them self out of the UK

The NHS are probably very interested indeed in how it will affect nurses/doctors from EU countries. Not sure if Kent has an insight?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah right, there's a grey area for those who've been here for less than 5 years.

 

My guess would be that it will finish up that anyone who has been here for a much shorter period ( from before the referendum maybe ) will be allowed to stay but it's not surprising that they're unsettled by the uncertainty.

I think you may well be right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NHS are probably very interested indeed in how it will affect nurses/doctors from EU countries. 

 

The NHS is the "institution" that has the most to lose, aren't they already seeing far fewer nurses from the EU apply for jobs here in the UK already? - long term if we can train our own, then fine, it's the short term (5-10 years) that might be the issue. I'm sure they'll get something sorted though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't the Government announce this week they are going to try and recruit 20k staff for mental health across the UK ?

They already have thousands of nursing positions they can't fill in the NHS.

The intention is there but how long is it going to take, especially as the effects of Brexit kick in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All you do is post links that hit as many as possible of your three requirements: (1) anti-Khan, (2) anti-Muslim, (3) anti-left. If it has reference to wahhabism, even better. The first post hit a couple of those points, but I still fail to see what it had to do with my question to Embankment of where it says London voted to stay because of it's large immigrant population. You said I missed it. Please spell out for me (as if I was a 10 year old) and show me where it answered my question.

 

As for the second post, well done for finding another article that has a section referring to his Muslim connections in his early career and some of the people he assisted who were not "salt of the earth". However, I again fail to see where it mentions that the London Remain vote was because of immigrants. Please can you point me in the right direction. The section on Brexit focuses on the economy and the effect that Brexit will have on that.

 

I note it says that polls show Khan to be the most popular politician in the country, and the 1.3 million votes cast for him as mayor give him the third-largest mandate of any politician in Europe. You didn't mention that.

 

As an aside, the article also confirms Whites Man's response to MK. London contributes thirty per cent of the nation’s tax revenue, as much as the next thirty-seven cities combined. If London fails, the UK economy is fucked.

 

Please don't reply with another link.

Going back to your quote re Khan being the most popular politician......did you find out when the poll when was conducted ?

 

I've been having a look on his twitter page......hmmmmm, look for yourself......it seems hell of a lot of folk aren't as typhlotic as you are son and aren't fooled by his apocryphal crap.........quite an enfilade of abuse.

 

Enjoy your night love.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/892684398809796608

 

PS - I apologise for using a link......................like hell I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a frightening thought. Man is absolutely inept. Looks like he's going to cry everytime he realises he created this mess and now has the responsibility to fix it. I think it has dawned on him that his bluff has well and truly been called. 

 

 

You're reading the wrong press. I read last week (must find the link) that all is going well, better than expected and we are much better prepared than people think and better prepared than the EU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're reading the wrong press. I read last week (must find the link) that all is going well, better than expected and we are much better prepared than people think and better prepared than the EU.

Dictated personally by Donald Trump :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NHS are probably very interested indeed in how it will affect nurses/doctors from EU countries. Not sure if Kent has an insight?

Well at the moment they're safe. I guess they're in a similar position to the Spanish lad earlier in the post. While their futures aren't secure - a lot of them will no doubt be looking at contingency plans if negotiations don't go well.

 

Nursing wise we're short on numbers by the tens of thousands. There's been a 96% drop in applications from EU nurses since Brexit

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/12/96-drop-in-eu-nurses-registering-to-work-in-britain-since-brexit-vote

 

There's also been a 23% drop in applications to take the course since the bursary was scrapped

 

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/education/nursing-degree-applicants-fall-23-in-wake-of-bursary-loss/7015313.article

 

Add to that a shit ton of experienced nurses wanting to leave for a myriad of different reasons

 

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/reviews-and-reports/critical-reasons-behind-nurses-leaving-profession-laid-bare/7016295.article

 

So - it's going to make an already difficult situation even worse. Presumably the idea will be to bring in more nurses from the Philippines or Africa to fill the shortfall, or fire off a load of nurses and replace them with these new 'nursing assitants' which are being trialled at the moment

 

https://www.hee.nhs.uk/our-work/developing-our-workforce/nursing/nursing-associate-new-support-role-nursing

 

Either way - I can't see it helping improve patient care.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't the Government announce this week they are going to try and recruit 20k staff for mental health across the UK ?

They already have thousands of nursing positions they can't fill in the NHS.

The intention is there but how long is it going to take, especially as the effects of Brexit kick in.

 

This came up today with a Matron in the NHS that I was talking to

 

Her view (and I stress it was her view only) was that Brexit will have very little impact. Nursing positions are poorly paid. Fact. So have never really appealed to nurses from within the EU unless they have another reason to be in the UK eg partner works here, married a Brit and moved here, moved here to gain experience in the UK and improve language skills, etc, etc

 

Many applicants are from people from countries outside the EU who are here for a number of reasons (far too many to mention)

 

The number of unfilled positions will continue to increase as successive governments pledge more jobs but fail to supply the increased money necessary as the current NHS model is unsustainable

 

Like I say, these were her views, but I have to say that I understand where she is coming from

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The missus has just gone back to nursing after a 8 year break. Every ward in the hospital is understaffed and crying out for more qualified nurses. She says the paperwork has increased and the staff are less experienced since she left but they get on with it best they can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're reading the wrong press. I read last week (must find the link) that all is going well, better than expected and we are much better prepared than people think and better prepared than the EU.

 

Well you don't need to read anything to see clearly that those who campaigned for leave, had absolutely no plan, no clue and no idea how to make it happen. Which is why Davis et al are still winging it day by day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you don't need to read anything to see clearly that those who campaigned for leave, had absolutely no plan, no clue and no idea how to make it happen. Which is why Davis et al are still winging it day by day. 

 

 

We clearly need an expert like you then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you don't need to read anything to see clearly that those who campaigned for leave, had absolutely no plan, no clue and no idea how to make it happen. Which is why Davis et al are still winging it day by day. 

 

From what I hear the EU negotiators have been impressed with our lot and their preparations.  That did come from a local Tory MP though so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.