Politics

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Won't be any knives to buy after brexit.

[miamiwhite]

8 minutes ago, jules_darby said:

What’s that got to do with theBrexit?

Sadiq Khan as per the origins of this thread ...

 

Heres one to cheer up all those who hate Liverpool though

And yes, it has fuck all to do with Brexit.

 

 

 

[miamiwhite]

12 minutes ago, jules_darby said:

What’s that got to do with theBrexit?

This is connected to Brexit though

 

 

[miamiwhite]

Whereas this is just mildly amusing

 

 

 

[jules_darby]

8 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

This is connected to Brexit though

 

 

Jones is a massive, massive bell end

With you there 

[miamiwhite]

2 minutes ago, jules_darby said:

Jones is a massive, massive bell end

With you there 

Thank you.

 

Don’t upset Not in Crawley,Jol and Kent though..they’re his drinking partners

 

[fatolive]

5 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We ain’t putting a hard border up the Irish aren't going to put a border up are you suggesting the EU are going to put the hard border up? The truth is no hard border will exist whatever is or isn’t agreed. Therefore it’s a complete red herring. More to the point it’s been engineered by the EU to ensure the backstop and to create a position of strength for the EU in negotiations, the idiots in charge of the WA are to blame( no wonder they’re remainers)

Think I’ve asked this before 

but, you want tougher control of uk borders, how do you propose doing that by leaving its biggest with the EU open. 

And don’t say no one comes that way or they’ll get checked when they land from Belfast as that doesn’t solve the problem you yourself say you want as a reason for Brexit , a uk controlled border between the uk and EU.

how do you achieve that and simetaneously adhere to the GFA ? 

[MalcolmW]

1 hour ago, jules_darby said:

Jones is a massive, massive bell end from Stockport.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Moon boy said:

The NI problem is a red herring, it doesn’t exist and never has, and till the threat is removed by the EU, March 29th will arrive with both sides in a ‘no deal’ situation, and both sides don’t want that

It’s a red herring for Brexiteers and an insurmountable issue for remainers who care to believe this myth!

It’s s great show, but I don’t think I’ll want to watc to watch the repeats.

Edited January 10, 2019 by boltondiver

[jules_darby]

2 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

 

He is indeed

 

we went the same 6th form college

he wrote about me in Chavs

[Moon boy]

3 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

It’s a red herring for Brexiteers and an insurmountable issue for remainers who care to believe this myth!

It’s s great show, but I don’t think I’ll want to watc to watch the repeats.

If the NI problem is insurmountable the only solution is to stay in the EU, is that what you are saying?

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

If the NI problem is insurmountable the only solution is to stay in the EU, is that what you are saying?

No

i share your view that it is red herring

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, fatolive said:

Think I’ve asked this before 

but, you want tougher control of uk borders, how do you propose doing that by leaving its biggest with the EU open. 

And don’t say no one comes that way or they’ll get checked when they land from Belfast as that doesn’t solve the problem you yourself say you want as a reason for Brexit , a uk controlled border between the uk and EU.

how do you achieve that and simetaneously adhere to the GFA ? 

I don’t have to come up with a solution I’m not a politician and it’s their job to find the answer. However I’d imagine a technological solution could be found if they tried hard enough. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I don’t have to come up with a solution I’m not a politician and it’s their job to find the answer. However I’d imagine a technological solution could be found if they tried hard enough. 

This.

People from both sides of the Irish border have been interviewed and said existing technology could be used (presumably with some modifications).

Sort of adds to what I said earlier; hugely disappointing that stuff like this hasn't been explored at an early stage to be used in negotiations.

Just seems easier to put up barriers and create obstacles rather than coming together and sorting everything out for the betterment of everyone.

[Sweep]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

Just seems easier to put up barriers and create obstacles rather than coming together and sorting everything out for the betterment of everyone.

Aye..... Its almost as though they don't want to leave isn't it

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Clearly many don't!

[Spider]

Honda are shutting their factory for a week beginning of April.

for the record, I will bet anyone £1029715692 that we don’t exit the EU on 29th March.

 

[fatolive]

41 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I don’t have to come up with a solution I’m not a politician and it’s their job to find the answer. However I’d imagine a technological solution could be found if they tried hard enough. 

You don’t, that’s true, I was more interested in how you reconcile your wish on tightening border controls without putting a physical border check in place.

there is a link to a report somewhere regarding technology currently in use and available and how it could be used, however, it would still mean that that would require a physical border point, which is a problem and it doesn’t obviously have anyway of stopping illegal imigarants in the same way as say, a man with an Alsatian and sniffer dog and certainly can’t solve the issue of goods coming over from private individuals nipping to the local shop in both directions. 

Some people can’t wait as they miss the days of smuggling over the border. 

[kent_white]

3 hours ago, miamiwhite said:

Thank you.

 

Don’t upset Not in Crawley,Jol and Kent though..they’re his drinking partners

 

I can't vouch for Jol - but I'll have to disappoint you as NiC and I also think he's a bell.

[leigh white]

Going over the Border to Yorkshire with Bolton is always a laugh. But smuggling pork pies with mint sauce on top is a step to far for me.

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by leigh white

[miamiwhite]

15 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I can't vouch for Jol - but I'll have to disappoint you as NiC and I also think he's a bell.

No need to call NiC a bell mate.....he’ll have you....he’s nails you know

 

[Jol_BWFC]

5 hours ago, miamiwhite said:

Thank you.

 

Don’t upset Not in Crawley,Jol and Kent though..they’re his drinking partners

 

I think you may have me mixed up with someone else.

[Jol_BWFC]

12 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Nice to have reasoned response, cheers.

Some more ardent leavers have said, that as the vote offered no deals as an option then it was for a clean break-no deal effectively. I can see where they're coming from, but I disagree with that.

It indeed becomes incumbent upon the government at the time to undertake the work necessary to leave in the best possible way.

Therein is the problem; apparently they didn't take up labour's offer to work with them on it (don't know if true, or why) and have gone it alone.

I've said previously, that I think TM misjudged it with her approach, and has lost the backing of a number of leavers within her party. Had they been kept onboard she may well have got the numbers.

However, maybe in trying to placate remain voting MPs, it's now backfired. It seems to have emboldened them to utilise the situation of her deal being unlikely to get through, to ultimately get brexit off the agenda.

This isn't parliament working together to get the best brexit deal. And that's what's so disappointing- I agree with you that this would have been the best way forward

So many splinters, that I can't see how this would be achieved. Sooner or later, they have to compromise to achieve this and they're not doing.

Ultimately then, it's back to the government to get it done. The deal on the table may not be perfect,  however I'm not sure it's a "bad deal" - it's just a label that folk who want something different throw at it.

Some will say a Canada type deal is bad, other want no deal etc.

What I would say is that I think those involved with negotiations have had a ridiculously difficult job, to do something never done before and mistakes were inevitable.

Unfortunately, parliament seems too keen to keep kicking out and pulling itself apart in myriad ways rather than agreeing that they have to compromise around something.

Hugely frustrating, unedifying and unhealthy.

 

I agree with what you have put (save for the Government being given another crack at it - the current one, at least). TM has miscalculated / misplayed things and it's been a shambles from the start of her tenure. But also there was no Brexit Plan from the Government / Cameron prior to the vote, so it's not just her that is to blame. Without major overhaul, I can only see that we're going to lurch from one mess to another.

 

As such, if / when May's deal is defeated, my view is that we need to take the opportunity to actually pause and work out what the hell is the best course of action for this country and how best to deliver Brexit. In my opinion, that means postponing the current leave date (by 6 months or 12 months) to give some breathing space / time to try and establish the way forward. It's probable it will also require a general election. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not advocating a second in/out referendum.

 

I'd like to think that the way forward could involve a cross-party approach and would be a Parliament driven process, rather than a Government led one. Certainly, the current Government can't organise a piss up in a brewery (or decide amongst themselves what they want for Brexit). That might also help alleviate some of the points scoring (perhaps wishful thinking).  A united front would surely help in further negotiations with the EU (which I think will be inevitable). 

 

The above is just my view. Others will disagree. In any event the above is never going to happen, because of the very nature of the self-serving individuals who are involved in the process and because of the sheer differences of opinions that lie on both sides of the House.

 

To summarise - it's all fucked.

[Mounts Kipper]

10 hours ago, fatolive said:

You don’t, that’s true, I was more interested in how you reconcile your wish on tightening border controls without putting a physical border check in place.

there is a link to a report somewhere regarding technology currently in use and available and how it could be used, however, it would still mean that that would require a physical border point, which is a problem and it doesn’t obviously have anyway of stopping illegal imigarants in the same way as say, a man with an Alsatian and sniffer dog and certainly can’t solve the issue of goods coming over from private individuals nipping to the local shop in both directions. 

Some people can’t wait as they miss the days of smuggling over the border. 

Tightening border controls wasn’t one of the specific reasons for leaving the EU, free movement of EU citizens was. 

How the government and border agencies police this once we leave is up to them.

Safe to say most future illegal entrants won’t be EU citizens but folk from further afield who’ve been encouraged by the EUs lack of decisiveness and weakness in dealing with this issue and its original misguided immigration policy.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

As part of the solution to continuing with no borders on the island of Ireland I’m sure the UK border control could be operated from Ireland and anyone entering Ireland who are travelling onto Northern Ireland must have a valid visa to enter the UK. 

Of course that’s not perfect system as can be seen in Calais where the UK border force are also present, there again no border control is 100% perfect anywhere in the world. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Mounts Kipper