frank_spencer Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Traf said: Blair has been proved to be a massive lying cunt too, hasn't he? You'll not find many of the Momentum types with a nice thing to say about Blair. If anything it'll add weight to their views that brexit is a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, frank_spencer said: You'll not find many of the Momentum types with a nice thing to say about Blair. If anything it'll add weight to their views that brexit is a bad idea. I'm not sure I'd take something Blair said in 1983 as being particular meaningful. We only need to go back a few years to find the massive inconsistencies from most of the leading Brexiteers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 12 hours ago, boltondiver said: From times when Corbyn had principles; “The whole basis of the Maastricht treaty is the establishment of a European central bank which is staffed by bankers, independent of national Governments and national economic policies, and whose sole policy is the maintenance of price stability. That will undermine any social objective that any Labour Government in the United Kingdom—or any other Government—would wish to carry out … The imposition of a bankers’ Europe on the people of this continent will endanger the cause of socialism in the United Kingdom and in any other country”. House of Commons, January 13, 1993 “Will my hon. Friend [Peter Mandelson] tell us how he proposes to influence a European central bank that is composed of bankers who are appointed for eight years, who are answerable and accountable to nobody and whose policy objective has been set down? How does he propose to influence them when there is no mechanism to allow that to happen?” House of Commons, January 13, 1993 “If the principle by which the European economic policy is to be run is that capital will find the home that is most suitable to it, any social policies relating to housing, unemployment—or employment—and the environment are bound to take second place”. House of Commons, January 14, 1993 “The whole thrust of western European thinking is to reduce all immigration and visa policies to the lowest common denominator—including the more important area of refugees”. House of Commons, January 27, 1993 “Under article 100c [of the Maastricht Treaty] it is perfectly possible for EC member states to get together and decide, for example, that visa requirements should be introduced for visitors to this country from the Caribbean. That would be opposed by the British Government, who have already given a commitment not to introduce such visas, especially for people from Jamaica, but the requirement would be imposed on this country and then it would be illegal under European law for Britain to admit Jamaican visitors without a visa, even though the stated policy of the British Government was that they did not want to introduce visas”. House of Commons, January 27, 1993 Corbyn still wants to leave though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, frank_spencer said: Corbyn still wants to leave though. Indeed he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 59 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Indeed he does The lack of principles is astounding. May a remainer is now the most ardent Brexiteer to appease her ERG. Corbyn an ardent leaver is desperately trying to leave but soften it up to appease his backbenchers. It could be an episode of yes Prime Minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The lack of principles is astounding. May a remainer is now the most ardent Brexiteer to appease her ERG. Corbyn an ardent leaver is desperately trying to leave but soften it up to appease his backbenchers. It could be an episode of yes Prime Minister. If TM is trying to appease ‘her’ ERG she’s not going about it the right way upto now, The ERG are not some kind of terrorist organisation, they are a group of Conservative MP’s who believe that the Government should carry out the wishes of people, as voted for blah, blah, blah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 21, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2019 56 minutes ago, Moon boy said: If TM is trying to appease ‘her’ ERG she’s not going about it the right way upto now, The ERG are not some kind of terrorist organisation, they are a group of Conservative MP’s who believe that the Government should carry out the wishes of people, as voted for blah, blah, blah I do find this accusation that she's pandered to that group strange. An accusation from those opposed to leaving. Having appointed brexit ministers etc she seems to have undermined and marginalised them and gone for a softer approach. Highlights the difficulty of sorting the whole thing out. From the news reports, it seems she's now trying to cajole her own MPs via tweeks rather than achieving cross party support. If it's simply a numbers game within her party, then she may have to toughen it somewhat. See what happens later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: I do find this accusation that she's pandered to that group strange. An accusation from those opposed to leaving. Having appointed brexit ministers etc she seems to have undermined and marginalised them and gone for a softer approach. Highlights the difficulty of sorting the whole thing out. From the news reports, it seems she's now trying to cajole her own MPs via tweeks rather than achieving cross party support. If it's simply a numbers game within her party, then she may have to toughen it somewhat. See what happens later. She has negotiated the "hardest" possible Brexit deal short of walking away and hoping the EU come back with a free comprehensive trade deal offering with no transition period (which even the ERG seem to think needs transition). . As the EU say - with her self imposed red lines - this is the deal. They are saying it again. This is a hard Brexit with the backstop in place that if triggered would soften the Brexit . The ERG are not pushing for a hard Brexit they are pushing for a no deal Brexit either to bully the EU into dropping the backstop or simply because they want a no deal Brexit. She certainly hasn't come close to a Customs union or new customs agreement many in the opposition want. Has stayed far closer to the ERG than say the middle of her party's wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamiwhite Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 Maybe it’s because I’m a Londoner...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted January 22, 2019 Members Share Posted January 22, 2019 I note that the newspapers are now suggesting the likelihood of civil unrest if a second referendum/'peoples vote'/obstruction of the will of the people by the political classes happen. Not only will democracy be dead if any of those things happen but Pandora's Box will have been opened and, if folk think there are extremist politics around right now, just wait and see what emerges if such a decision is foisted upon the British public. Remainers have been wittering on about a 'cliff edge' for years now which I contend is absolute bollocks as trade deals with the worlds 5th largest economy will be an irresistible attraction for both the EU and non-EU countries. Yes, there'll be short term pain for long term gain but the end result is inevitable - it is assured by the natural laws of economics.The 'cliff edge' I see is a different one with extreme left and extreme right battling it out on the streets of Britain. We fought a costly and bloody war a few decades ago to ensure that democracy prevailed. If sore losers in Westminster decide to disregard the will of the people expressed in the largest voter turnout in our history then the blame for the ugly civil unrest which will likely follow can be laid directly at their feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 9 hours ago, miamiwhite said: Maybe it’s because I’m a Londoner...... Another well-chosen source to 'get people thinking' there. Is little Nazi Mark still crywanking into his swastika grundies after being dumped by his big 'I hate you daddy, you'll notice me now' Nazi girlfriend? Dear oh dear, and again, the relevance of Sadiq Khan's London in a Brexit thread is questionable to say the least. It should be in one of the various bigot threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted January 22, 2019 Members Share Posted January 22, 2019 "The relevance of Sadiq Khan's London in a Brexit thread" https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45537784 FFS, what deleterious cocktail are you quaffing these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 OK then, the relevance of a 'half the year in Oz, half the year in Spain, half an hour in the United Kingdom' poster appearing in a Brexit thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Anyhow, a bit more background reading on Mr. Collett - the source of the anti-Khan tweet, it is in a notoriously liberal wishy-washy periodical, however, so excuse the bias... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648446/Don-t-let-man-s-sacrifice-vain-Swastika-covered-vote-Leave-activist-shocking-support-Jo-Cox-s-alleged-killer-calls-MP-s-death-unfortunate-says-shouldn-t-stop-Britons-voting-out.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 The Remainers in Parliament are a majority, because Bercow has now assumed he can use his new found powers to assist the Remainers, in the vote next week he will allow the amendments that will cause Brexit to be delayed/cancelled etc. If the vote removes the ultimate power of the Government to handle the procedure TM will have no other option but to call a snap election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, Moon boy said: The Remainers in Parliament are a majority, because Bercow has now assumed he can use his new found powers to assist the Remainers, in the vote next week he will allow the amendments that will cause Brexit to be delayed/cancelled etc. If the vote removes the ultimate power of the Government to handle the procedure TM will have no other option but to call a snap election And you believe the government are handling this procedure well? They have made such a mess of this whole debacle that i honestly believe that others need to assume control to course correct. In the main Leavers did not vote for No Deal and that may still be a consequence but i'd expect the sovereignty of Parliament to be respected too so that we avoid that at all costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Moon boy said: The Remainers in Parliament are a majority, because Bercow has now assumed he can use his new found powers to assist the Remainers, in the vote next week he will allow the amendments that will cause Brexit to be delayed/cancelled etc. If the vote removes the ultimate power of the Government to handle the procedure TM will have no other option but to call a snap election The deal May has put on the table has been negotiated by an unelected civil service bureaucrat. Parliament is our sovereign elected body are merely trying to do what they are paid for - add checks and balances and express their will. This is the sovereignty Brexiteers argued so vigorously for. So do you want sovereignty or unelected officials dictating things? Because if it is the latter, lets just stay in. If the former, then stop whinging and realise that this is exactly what you voted for. Edited January 22, 2019 by bwfcfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Salford Trotter said: And you believe the government are handling this procedure well? They have made such a mess of this whole debacle that i honestly believe that others need to assume control to course correct. In the main Leavers did not vote for No Deal and that may still be a consequence but i'd expect the sovereignty of Parliament to be respected too so that we avoid that at all costs “In the mainLeavers did not vote for No Deal” how do you know? Leavers did not vote to Remain, that’s a truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 . 2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said: The deal May has put on the table has been negotiated by an unelected civil service bureaucrat. Parliament is our sovereign elected body are merely trying to do what they are paid for - add checks and balances and express their will. This is the sovereignty Brexiteers argued so vigorously for. So do you want sovereignty or unelected officials dictating things? Because if it is the latter, lets just stay in. If the former, then stop whinging and realise that this is exactly what you voted for. In your last paragraph where does ‘leave the EU’ fit in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 22, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2019 Some interesting words erupting between Italy and France. Yet more splits appearing. When will the EU get their heads out of the clouds and shift position? When civil unrest erupts across the continent? Reform is urgently needed and on a large scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 22, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2019 5 hours ago, bolty58 said: "The relevance of Sadiq Khan's London in a Brexit thread" https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45537784 FFS, what deleterious cocktail are you quaffing these days? Glad to have you back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, Moon boy said: “In the mainLeavers did not vote for No Deal” how do you know? Leavers did not vote to Remain, that’s a truth Because if you listened to the reactions from the leave voters prior to the referendum the majority were calling out immigration as their reason for leaving plus Boris and his chums had made it clear we would walk into some fantastic trade deals within months of leaving. Every reference to a possible No Deal was dismissed as part of a Project Fear agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Salford Trotter said: Because if you listened to the reactions from the leave voters prior to the referendum the majority were calling out immigration as their reason for leaving plus Boris and his chums had made it clear we would walk into some fantastic trade deals within months of leaving. Every reference to a possible No Deal was dismissed as part of a Project Fear agenda. It’s still project fear, continues to be used in an attempt by the EU and remainers to force the UK to accept an unacceptable deal. Funnily enough the remainers who forced the issue of a parliamentary vote have now forced the governments hand in returning to the EU to negotiate a better deal. Not what they expected to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I don't think we'll be leaving on 29th March somehow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: It’s still project fear, continues to be used in an attempt by the EU and remainers to force the UK to accept an unacceptable deal. Funnily enough the remainers who forced the issue of a parliamentary vote have now forced the governments hand in returning to the EU to negotiate a better deal. Not what they expected to happen. Hasn't TM been going back to the EU already trying to get a better deal? Don't think they are going to budge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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