Politics

[Casino]

I'm reassured

[bolty58]

14 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Have you missed the agreed in principal deals with Australia and Israel? These deals initially are to trade exactly as we currently trade via EU rules. This seems the quickest way forward and deals could be agreed on that basis with all our current trading partners and then once we clear ourselves of EU rules and regulations we can then look at improving these deals for both parties. 

 

   

 

12 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Now you are being a silly billy, we have put all EU law into our law and we can then amend and change as we see fit, it is up to our government to amend and change to suit our particular requirements, hence my comments.   

 

I really don't know why anyone would waste their time with Fanny 5. The John Curtis Holmes of WWays (i.e. the biggest cock).

[bolty58]

2 hours ago, boltondiver said:

It’s horseshit

It is. 70% of the UK's food is sourced from within the UK. Not much of a problem making up any shortfall (which won't happen BTW. French farmers will be blocking the Champs Elysees with tractors within a month if they couldn't get their produce across the Channel).

Edited January 29, 2019 by bolty58

[Ani]

13 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

But that doesn’t change that leaving the EU will disproportionately hurt the poor according to most analyses. So whilst they may have voted for a change in status quo, many of those communities will be worse off. In many ways. 

I don’t really care who called who what now. There is clear evidence that leaving, especially a hard Brexit is harmful.

We can be out of the political machinations of the EU but retain the market access. Sure it seems politically hard to do but surely economically is the only sensible choice if we have to leave?

If leaving the political side but retaining the economic side is an option sure we would take it. But not sure it is on the table. 

[Mounts Kipper]

I see that Macedonia and Albania are the next 2 countries in line for joining the EU, they do seem to enjoy giving access to basket case economies. It’s no wonder Sturgeon wants to join after independence. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I see that Macedonia and Albania are the next 2 coutures in line for joining the EU, they do seem to enjoy giving access to basket case economies. 

Couture in Albania?

[bwfcfan5]

9 minutes ago, Ani said:

If leaving the political side but retaining the economic side is an option sure we would take it. But not sure it is on the table. 

When you say "not on the table" what do you mean? The EU offered us such a deal but we don't want to accept the rules of FoM. The option is there (though our behaviour has made it more difficult) but it requires political co-operation. So it isn't happening.

[MalcolmW]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I see that Macedonia and Albania are the next 2 countries in line for joining the EU, they do seem to enjoy giving access to basket case economies. It’s no wonder Sturgeon wants to join after independence. 

North Macedonia.

[Ani]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

When you say "not on the table" what do you mean? The EU offered us such a deal but we don't want to accept the rules of FoM. The option is there (though our behaviour has made it more difficult) but it requires political co-operation. So it isn't happening.

So the deal was on the table with certain restrictions and rules.

You can have a trade deal without FoM.

The way the EU runs the political/economic are totally entwined.

So to be clear by 'not on the table' i mean a clean trade only deal with no ties or links to any other points/rules/laws/regulations.

[Mounts Kipper]

33 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

North Macedonia.

Aye change of name at the request of Greece. 

[bwfcfan5]

9 minutes ago, Ani said:

So the deal was on the table with certain restrictions and rules.

You can have a trade deal without FoM.

The way the EU runs the political/economic are totally entwined.

So to be clear by 'not on the table' i mean a clean trade only deal with no ties or links to any other points/rules/laws/regulations.

You can have a trade deal. But we aren't talking trade deals. We're talking the level of market access we currently have. Which requires acceptance of freedom of movement within that single market. That is the who principle the SM is founded on. That isn't a "political choice" other than the whole principle of the EU is to promote free trade and unfettered market acess across its members. That is about facilitating capitalism and involves FoM. 

Norway are outside the political institution but still part of the SM.

As for a clean trade deal - that is the Canada model but is economically far worse than what we have now. And cannot be negotiated until we exit. Also all trade deals bring with them regulations and rules - that have to be mutually agreed. That is the point of a trade deal. What we negotiate outside will be worse than SM access. And will take years and decades to replicate the same level of bilateral deals the EU enjoys with other countries.

When we strike these independent FTA's with other countries (and indeed the EU) do you not think those countries are going to ask for some visa concessions to allow their workforce to more easily come and work in the UK? Many will. Will a FTA with Europe not involve some level of movement? Of course it will. And here is the rub - I will bet any money that IF we exit that in 10 years time not only will we be worse off, but immigration will be no different to what it is today (certainly no lower). I will confidently bet that because business will demand it and other nations will demand it. 

 

[MalcolmW]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Aye change of name at the request of Greece. 

Almost. NM was previously formally known as the Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia because Macedonia covered large areas in both Greece and Yugoslavia. While it was OK for Yugo to call a province Macedonia it was unacceptable to Greece for an independent country to have that name, which is why reference to Macedonia was always FYR Macedonia. As they want to join the EU(!) they were obliged by Greece to make this latest change in order to avoid a continuing veto.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

12 hours ago, Casino said:

Approval rating for the eu in Greece is over 60%

 

Good for them.

It's not making judgements, just about the EU. Simple- I'm quite looking forward to learning more.

[Ani]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

You can have a trade deal. But we aren't talking trade deals. We're talking the level of market access we currently have. Which requires acceptance of freedom of movement within that single market. That is the who principle the SM is founded on. That isn't a "political choice" other than the whole principle of the EU is to promote free trade and unfettered market acess across its members. That is about facilitating capitalism and involves FoM. 

Norway are outside the political institution but still part of the SM.

As for a clean trade deal - that is the Canada model but is economically far worse than what we have now. And cannot be negotiated until we exit. Also all trade deals bring with them regulations and rules - that have to be mutually agreed. That is the point of a trade deal. What we negotiate outside will be worse than SM access. And will take years and decades to replicate the same level of bilateral deals the EU enjoys with other countries.

When we strike these independent FTA's with other countries (and indeed the EU) do you not think those countries are going to ask for some visa concessions to allow their workforce to more easily come and work in the UK? Many will. Will a FTA with Europe not involve some level of movement? Of course it will. And here is the rub - I will bet any money that IF we exit that in 10 years time not only will we be worse off, but immigration will be no different to what it is today (certainly no lower). I will confidently bet that because business will demand it and other nations will demand it. 

 

i said the idea of a taking the economic part of what we have was not on the table, you said that is what the EU had offered.

You now have explained why that deal is not available. So you are agreeing with me and ironically disagreeing with yourself. 

Are you really saying that 'the whole principle of the EU is to promote free trade and unfettered market access across its members. That is about facilitating capitalism and involves FoM.' and this is not a political choice ? The whole point of the vote is that we have chosen not to be part of this anymore, madness in my view but that is the vote.

Strangely our politicians are now debating how we progress this non political issue. The issue of membership of the EU is the biggest political issue of the decade.

I will take your bet for £1,000 with the one rule you have to provide indisputable evidence in 10 years time to prove you are right. Before you take the bet remember this is impossible, 

[bwfcfan5]

6 minutes ago, Ani said:

i said the idea of a taking the economic part of what we have was not on the table, you said that is what the EU had offered.

You now have explained why that deal is not available. So you are agreeing with me and ironically disagreeing with yourself. 

Are you really saying that 'the whole principle of the EU is to promote free trade and unfettered market access across its members. That is about facilitating capitalism and involves FoM.' and this is not a political choice ? The whole point of the vote is that we have chosen not to be part of this anymore, madness in my view but that is the vote.

Strangely our politicians are now debating how we progress this non political issue. The issue of membership of the EU is the biggest political issue of the decade.

I will take your bet for £1,000 with the one rule you have to provide indisputable evidence in 10 years time to prove you are right. Before you take the bet remember this is impossible, 

The single market and how it operates is not a choice. If you say "well lets have a market but no FoM" you haven't got a single market. You've just got a customs deal. 

The EU would jump at the chance for us to negotiate a Norway model. They'd absolutely facilitate that. The reason we won't is of our own choosing. Because whilst it would be leaving the EU we'd have to accept FoM. Except, FoM has a massive economic benefit to the UK - so we'd not be accepting it, more so, just doing the only sensible thing. But you know politicians are more bothered about being voted in next time than they are about actually making sound evidence based decisions. 

 

 

[Casino]

46 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Good for them.

It's not making judgements, just about the EU. Simple- I'm quite looking forward to learning more.

you said they were looking at anti EU sentiment

its odd, seeing as the majority are supportive, dont you think?

[Mounts Kipper]

11 minutes ago, Casino said:

you said they were looking at anti EU sentiment

its odd, seeing as the majority are supportive, dont you think?

It is odd wouldn’t be a poll ran by the EU would it? Let’s see this poll.

[MalcolmW]

I think next Monday's BBC documentary is based on how Greece was treated by the EU. 

Maybe 60% do support it but I rather doubt that. [60% of respondents totalling 2% of the population seems more plausible.]

[Ani]

15 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

I think next Monday's BBC documentary is based on how Greece was treated by the EU. 

Maybe 60% do support it but I rather doubt that. [60% of respondents totalling 2% of the population seems more plausible.]

Would a sample that size produce results that are statistically significant and reliable ?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Casino said:

you said they were looking at anti EU sentiment

its odd, seeing as the majority are supportive, dont you think?

They are. It's a series of three documentaries about the EU.

Last night was how we got to a leave vote. The next appears to be about anti EU sentiment and examining why it's happening.

You seem to be getting your knickers in a twist over something that isn't there!

Irrespective of numbers, it's not unreasonable to study why something is increasingly unpopular. Isn't that proper journalism?

Might help folk form more reasoned opinions?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

Might help folk form more reasoned opinions?

Dramatically unlikely

Edited January 29, 2019 by boltondiver

[Tonge moor green jacket]

52 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Dramatically unlikely

True, but can't do any harm.

Assuming it's presented in a balanced way.

I'm quite intrigued to see what is presented though, and was offering no judgement in my reference to the programme. Merely a statement to what folk may be interested in.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Anyway, all getting heated in the house. 

[Mounts Kipper]

Fuck me Ian Blackford does he ever shut the fuck up, same whine and whinge every time the fat cunt stands up. Give them a vote to fuck off and make it a once in a lifetime vote, (I know they’ve already had one) make the SNP sign an agreement to honour just that. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[mickbrown]

Is it sorted yet?