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miamiwhite

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6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

And asked Corbyn to go for it.

Pm goes and what does that get?

Nothing. 29th looms.

Some in the ERG are now more interested in bringing down May and the government than they are in delivering Brexit. You are correct - it solves nothing. But their targets are now fixed. 

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3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

John heyes giving the screechers some shit. Brilliant.

"Self entitled liberal elite".

That's got the frilled lizards red and hot under the collar.

 

Not really helpful though is it? Hardly like the many millionaire careerist politicians who backed Brexit aren't "elites" is it?

They have to get passed the name calling and actually all agree to compromise. 

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34 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Not really helpful though is it? Hardly like the many millionaire careerist politicians who backed Brexit aren't "elites" is it?

They have to get passed the name calling and actually all agree to compromise. 

Yes. Absolutely.

However, even you have eased back on your intellectual criticisms recently, which was the point he was making. Yes he may well be of means himself, but he made sure to explain it wasn't purely material elitism, but the dismissive attitude they have of those who didn't share their view of the EU.

It's been quite a show of blood letting at times today- perhaps this was needed; like a football team holding a no holds barred discussion in the changing rooms after a defeat.

A clear the air, may help to pave the way for a more measured approach.

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1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yes. Absolutely.

However, even you have eased back on your intellectual criticisms recently, which was the point he was making. Yes he may well be of means himself, but he made sure to explain it wasn't purely material elitism, but the dismissive attitude they have of those who didn't share their view of the EU.

It's been quite a show of blood letting at times today- perhaps this was needed; like a football team holding a no holds barred discussion in the changing rooms after a defeat.

A clear the air, may help to pave the way for a more measured approach.

But the Brexiteers are just as bad and probably worse. They can't accept that the promises made in the election ranged from a number of them telling everyone "oh we won't need to leave the single market, don't worry about that" - its all there for historic record. I honestly think leaving is a mistake but we are where we are - and I'd hope politicians realise that. But shouting at each other won't help.

Ultimately the Labour front bench has conceded more than practically anyone else - they dropped 2 of their red lines, more than the 2nd referendum lot, more than the ERG and more than the Tory front bench. As useless as Corbyn is I think if a few others would put a realistic proposal up and be up for dropping some red lines like they did, then we'd get somewhere....

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7 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

But the Brexiteers are just as bad and probably worse. They can't accept that the promises made in the election ranged from a number of them telling everyone "oh we won't need to leave the single market, don't worry about that" - its all there for historic record. I honestly think leaving is a mistake but we are where we are - and I'd hope politicians realise that. But shouting at each other won't help.

Ultimately the Labour front bench has conceded more than practically anyone else - they dropped 2 of their red lines, more than the 2nd referendum lot, more than the ERG and more than the Tory front bench. As useless as Corbyn is I think if a few others would put a realistic proposal up and be up for dropping some red lines like they did, then we'd get somewhere....

Anyone can drop red lines when they’re not in government. 

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2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Anyone can drop red lines when they’re not in government. 

Seemingly not. The Lib Dems are hellbent on 2nd ref as are the SNP - the government can't even agree amongst themselves and the ERG seemingly are hellbent on bringing the government down.

If there was just a collective effort to push this over the line with some compromise we might get somewhere less awful. 

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So Labour have just refused to vote in favour of a second referendum??

the labour remainers heads must be spinning

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22 minutes ago, Spider said:

So Labour have just refused to vote in favour of a second referendum??

the labour remainers heads must be spinning

A second referendum still has a chance of coming out as "leave" - they'll push for a two year extension. If that happens, then Brexit is pretty much dead. Job done.

 

 

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Just said then even if the labour mps who didn’t vote came to the fore, there wouldn’t based on today’s numbers, be enough to carry motion for 2nd referendum? So unless something changes then that’s dead for now. 

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10 hours ago, kent_white said:

The deal pretty much is a return to the status quo though isn't it?

What makes you think I support her deal?

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So

to summarise

Theresa has got precisely what she wanted all along.

this now ticks on to June

then it just peters out over the next two years.

 

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Just now, Spider said:

So

to summarise

Theresa has got precisely what she wanted all along.

this now ticks on to June

then it just peters out over the next two years.

 

Well, we can still leave by 29.03.19

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Just now, boltondiver said:

Well, we can still leave by 29.03.19

By choice or by default, if our EU friends say "non"

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11 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

What makes you think I support her deal?

I don't

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1 minute ago, Spider said:

So

to summarise

Theresa has got precisely what she wanted all along.

this now ticks on to June

then it just peters out over the next two years.

 

There is no guarantee it goes to June. Only way that happens is IF her deal is agreed next week. Then EU will allow extension. If not she will ask for a longer extension that may not be granted especially as we’d need a good reason. 

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Which they won’t 

her deal will get through eventually in my opinion. 

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1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

Well, we can still leave by 29.03.19

Indeed. But now it is not government policy to leave on 29th March anymore...in spite of May saying and promising over 100 times that we would.

 

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Just now, Escobarp said:

Which they won’t 

her deal will get through eventually in my opinion. 

Next week? I think that is it’s last chance. Get it through and leave end of June. Otherwise....who knows?

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1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Indeed. But now it is not government policy to leave on 29th March anymore...in spite of May saying and promising over 100 times that we would.

 

Of course.

I, for one, am disgusted by our Parliament.

Nowt I can do, though.

But, it just extends uncertainty.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah I think it gets through next week as it is as you point out it’s last chance. 

‘Now no deal has “sort of”gone this puts pressure on the ERG and the other brexit Evers etc that brexit may well disappear so she will leverage that point to get it through. It’s going to be tight though 

Edited by Escobarp

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1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Yeah I think it gets through next week as it is as you point out it’s last chance. 

‘Now no deal has “sort of”gone this puts pressure on the ERG and the other brexit Evers etc that brexit may well disappear so she will leverage that point to get it through. It’s going to be tight though 

I think it will happen

 

Our Arlene will see to it.

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A labour front bencher ignored her party's whip and voted against the ammendment which was for a second referendum. The whip was to abstain, and she's resigned.

Another voted in each lobby, as a perverse way of abstaining.

The vote against extending article 50 was higher than I expected too.

Fascinating stuff.

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