Sweep Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 hours ago, paulhanley said: I'm also looking forward to sneering twats It's a bit rich you using the word "sneering" when there is nobody on the entirely off this thread who comes even closer to you for having a sneering attitude. The way you speak down to people who don't have your view is incredible. The sooner everybody realises that you're right, and anybody who disagrees with you is definitely wrong and a democracy denier, then the happier you'll be. I've said it before on here, I worry about the self harm you'll inflict on yourself if for some reason we don't leave, you seem to have an incredible amount of hatred for the EU, and anybody who voted to remain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Sweep said: It's a bit rich you using the word "sneering" when there is nobody on the entirely off this thread who comes even closer to you for having a sneering attitude. The way you speak down to people who don't have your view is incredible. The sooner everybody realises that you're right, and anybody who disagrees with you is definitely wrong and a democracy denier, then the happier you'll be. I've said it before on here, I worry about the self harm you'll inflict on yourself if for some reason we don't leave, you seem to have an incredible amount of hatred for the EU, and anybody who voted to remain I don't hate anybody. Like millions of leave voters in this country it is us who have been spoken down to for three years - more if you consider the patronising campaign led by Osborne's before June 2016. What you get from me is the response, not the initiation. The worst kind of remainers and EU zealots reap what they sew. Bit rich therefore for remainers to be questioning the ferocity of the response they get. I'm very grateful for your concern but there'll be no self harm. Calm down. Go and have a natter to Sooty, Soo and Matthew. By the way - would you like us to join the Euro? If not, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, paulhanley said: By the way - would you like us to join the Euro? If not, why not? I'd not like us to join the Euro, then again as things stand I don't want to be in the EU, so why would I? Edited June 16, 2019 by Sweep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted June 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted June 16, 2019 37 minutes ago, Sweep said: It's a bit rich you using the word "sneering" when there is nobody on the entirely off this thread who comes even closer to you for having a sneering attitude. The way you speak down to people who don't have your view is incredible. The sooner everybody realises that you're right, and anybody who disagrees with you is definitely wrong and a democracy denier, then the happier you'll be. I've said it before on here, I worry about the self harm you'll inflict on yourself if for some reason we don't leave, you seem to have an incredible amount of hatred for the EU, and anybody who voted to remain Thing is, when Paul first started posting on this thread, there were a good number of comments thanking him for his informative and balanced language. Shortly after the usual suspects came in with their usual racist/thick comments, and the fire was lit. At times it does become a cock waving contest, but if you're repeatedly being referred to in inaccurate and unjustifiable terms, then, unfortunately, it's easy to fight fire with fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, paulhanley said: By the way - would you like us to join the Euro? If not, why not? According to this bloke, it was going to be suicide if we didn't join.... Shows how people do sometimes get things wrong https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver.observerbusiness4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Thing is, when Paul first started posting on this thread, there were a good number of comments thanking him for his informative and balanced language. Shortly after the usual suspects came in with their usual racist/thick comments, and the fire was lit. At times it does become a cock waving contest, but if you're repeatedly being referred to in inaccurate and unjustifiable terms, then, unfortunately, it's easy to fight fire with fire. I'm sure you've had the same comments. Funny how it always gets twisted back around to leavers being the ones who are the perpetrators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sweep said: According to this bloke, it was going to be suicide if we didn't join.... Shows how people do sometimes get things wrong https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver.observerbusiness4 I'm asking you though. Would you have us join the Euro - and if not, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted June 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted June 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sweep said: According to this bloke, it was going to be suicide if we didn't join.... Shows how people do sometimes get things wrong https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver.observerbusiness4 From his personal perspective, you can see his point of view. A government has more to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, paulhanley said: I'm asking you though. Would you have us join the Euro - and if not, why not? I've already answered that further up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Thing is, when Paul first started posting on this thread, there were a good number of comments thanking him for his informative and balanced language. Shortly after the usual suspects came in with their usual racist/thick comments, and the fire was lit. At times it does become a cock waving contest, but if you're repeatedly being referred to in inaccurate and unjustifiable terms, then, unfortunately, it's easy to fight fire with fire. Especially when your as well informed and have researched the subject as much as PH has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 hour ago, paulhanley said: I'm sure you've had the same comments. Funny how it always gets twisted back around to leavers being the ones who are the perpetrators. There has been as much thrown from Leavers as there has been from Remainers. Pathetic on both sides. Not sure why these debates are on telly when so few people have a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted June 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted June 16, 2019 5 hours ago, paulhanley said: I'm looking forward to knowing that when I enter a polling station the people I'm voting for are genuinely 100 per cent in charge with no interference from the likes of unelected EU commissioners. I have this really old fashioned belief in democracy, you see. I'm also looking forward to this country's economy thriving to the benefit of everyone once free of the shackles of the EU. I'm also looking forward to sneering twats like you having the cocksure attitude driven out of you over a period of time by the proof that Brexit was the right decision. Tell me, in your all too clear enthusiasm for the EU, would you have us in the Euro? If not, why not? The usual tripe. "Unelected"? We've just held European Parliamentary elections. I'm assuming you voted. All evidence and common sense shows our economy will be massively damaged when we leave the EU. In what way do you think it will flourish? Can you give an example of another country on the planet that left the largest trading block in existence then flourished? It seems your only genuine reason to celebrate our departure is to get back at "sneering twats" who disagree with you. Fuck the country. You just want to feel like you've "won" something. And no, I don't think we should adopt the Euro, and I've never suggested anything of the sort. What on Earth has that got to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ani said: There has been as much thrown from Leavers as there has been from Remainers. Pathetic on both sides. Not sure why these debates are on telly when so few people have a vote. I'd have to say that many of the 17.4m who voted to go out and leave on June 23, 2016 could never ever have imagined that upon learning the day after that they'd backed the winning side, they'd be subject to such entrenched and recalcitrant abuse over 3 years to follow. I can't remember who I read saying this but it is true ..... "we didn't know what you thought of us before, but oh boy, we do now" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, paulhanley said: I'd have to say that many of the 17.4m who voted to go out and leave on June 23, 2016 could never ever have imagined that upon learning the day after that they'd backed the winning side, they'd be subject to such entrenched and recalcitrant abuse over 3 years to follow. I can't remember who I read saying this but it is true ..... "we didn't know what you thought of us before, but oh boy, we do now" Whereas the phrase ‘remoaners’ ‘traitors’ and ‘snowflakes’ had been used just as often (maybe slightly more ? 48 v 52? 😁) clearly someone both sides have over stepped the mark. Who was the woman who went court to make sure parliament had the final say on the deal ? She got pilloried for being right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Cheese said: The usual tripe. "Unelected"? We've just held European Parliamentary elections. I'm assuming you voted. All evidence and common sense shows our economy will be massively damaged when we leave the EU. In what way do you think it will flourish? Can you give an example of another country on the planet that left the largest trading block in existence then flourished? It seems your only genuine reason to celebrate our departure is to get back at "sneering twats" who disagree with you. Fuck the country. You just want to feel like you've "won" something. And no, I don't think we should adopt the Euro, and I've never suggested anything of the sort. What on Earth has that got to do with it? You never, ever get it do you. The EU parliament is a fig-leaf, a facade. It cannot propose law. It can only amend law put forward by commissioners. Even then those unelected commissioners have to approve those tweaks. Once something becomes a law, in true EU style, there is no means of amending it. That parliament holds no power whatsoever. It is just another trapping of the totally unneccessary and distant layer of governance of which you are clearly in love. Do your homework before you start dishing out the lectures. I can give several examples of countries "Outside the largest trading block" who are flourishing very nicely thankyou. And just about every country inside this much vaunted trading bloc with its strangling regulation and cozy corporatism could be doing far better as self governing nation states taking political and economic decisions based on their own particular needs and wants. What has the Euro to do with it? What a staggering question to ask. The Euro encapsulates everything about this grand project of which you seem to be a fan. Senseless centralisation of power for the sake of it. Impoverishment of southern Europe as a result. The EU wants to centralise and federalise more and more. Yet when it comes to a test of whether you really want to be part of this grand experiment of sucking up power from nation states .... you baulk. It's very, very revealing. Again - perhaps you should do your homework about what the EU really is all about before you come on here frothing at the mouth. Edited June 16, 2019 by paulhanley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ani said: Whereas the phrase ‘remoaners’ ‘traitors’ and ‘snowflakes’ had been used just as often (maybe slightly more ? 48 v 52? 😁) clearly someone both sides have over stepped the mark. Who was the woman who went court to make sure parliament had the final say on the deal ? She got pilloried for being right. As I said previously - the people on the leave side of this debate did not initiate this bitterness. Had remain won in 2016 most leavers, me included would have accepted the result. This last three years has seen some truly appalling, shameful anti-democratic behaviour from people who hold themselves to be liberal and tolerant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, paulhanley said: As I said previously - the people on the leave side of this debate did not initiate this bitterness. Had remain won in 2016 most leavers, me included would have accepted the result. This last three years has seen some truly appalling, shameful anti-democratic behaviour from people who hold themselves to be liberal and tolerant. Your post just about sums up the blinkered attitude shown by each side. ‘It was not us it was them’. ‘We would have been much nicer’. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted June 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, paulhanley said: You never, ever get it do you. The EU parliament is a fig-leaf, a facade. It cannot propose law. It can only amend law put forward by commissioners. Even then those unelected commissioners have to approve those tweaks. Once something becomes a law, in true EU style, there is no means of amending it. That parliament holds no power whatsoever. It is just another trapping of the totally unneccessary and distant layer of governance of which you are clearly in love. Do your homework before you start dishing out the lectures. I can give several examples of countries "Outside the largest trading block" who are flourishing very nicely thankyou. And just about every country inside this much vaunted trading bloc with its strangling regulation and cozy corporatism could be doing far better as self governing nation states taking political and economic decisions based on their own particular needs and wants. What has the Euro to do with it? What a staggering question to ask. The Euro encapsulates everything about this grand project of which you seem to be a fan. Senseless centralisation of power for the sake of it. Impoverishment of southern Europe as a result. The EU wants to centralise and federalise more and more. Yet when it comes to a test of whether you really want to be part of this grand experiment of sucking up power from nation states .... you baulk. It's very, very revealing. Again - perhaps you should do your homework about what the EU really is all about before you come on here frothing at the mouth. I'M giving "lectures" and "frothing at the mouth", says the bloke posting essay-length diatribes of easily-debunked nonsense. Go on, give us an example of a country with no trade deals that has a flourishing economy? Edited June 16, 2019 by Cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Cheese said: I'M giving "lectures" and "frothing at the mouth", says the bloke posting essay-length diatribes of easily-debunked nonsense. Go on, give us an example of a country with no trade deals that has a flourishing economy? Debunk the comment about the EU parliament being a facade and unable to change the laws please. I’ll wait with bated breath your response. Edited June 16, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cheese said: I'M giving "lectures" and "frothing at the mouth", says the bloke posting essay-length diatribes of easily-debunked nonsense. Go on, give us an example of a country with no trade deals that has a flourishing economy? "Easily debunked nonsense". So in short a total failure to address any of the points I've made. The totally undemocratic nature of the Eu and its so called parliament, the failure of its single currency - the crowning policy of its centralising and federalising ethos, the dovetailing of corporatism and regulation that strangles economies of European states. No .... let's ignore all that. Getting on for 90 per cent of the world is outside of the EU. Much of that world is doing very nicely thankyou very much. Nation states able to take pragmatic decisions based on their own individual circumstances at any one moment in time - as opposed to being beholden to a giant, clunky political and economic superstructure with hidebound laws and regulations applied in a clinical and dictatorial way. Of all the people on here I find you to be the most futile to be debating with. Go away, do some reading and try to apply some level of scepticism to the EU. You've got the blinkers on more firmly than a skittish horse at the start tape at a midweek meeting at Towcester. There are remainers on here and elsewhere who are capable of applying scepticism to all levels of government including the EU. You're not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: Debunk the comment about the EU parliament being a facade and unable to change the laws please. I’ll wait with bated breath your response. It's "easily debunked nonsense" - so he doesn't have to. But then if you buy in to the EU you buy in to the whole culture where its easy to dismiss challenge from sceptics because we're all fringe people on the cusp of fascism etc etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, paulhanley said: "Easily debunked nonsense". So in short a total failure to address any of the points I've made. The totally undemocratic nature of the Eu and its so called parliament, the failure of its single currency - the crowning policy of its centralising and federalising ethos, the dovetailing of corporatism and regulation that strangles economies of European states. No .... let's ignore all that. Getting on for 90 per cent of the world is outside of the EU. Much of that world is doing very nicely thankyou very much. Nation states able to take pragmatic decisions based on their own individual circumstances at any one moment in time - as opposed to being beholden to a giant, clunky political and economic superstructure with hidebound laws and regulations applied in a clinical and dictatorial way. Of all the people on here I find you to be the most futile to be debating with. Go away, do some reading and try to apply some level of scepticism to the EU. You've got the blinkers on more firmly than a skittish horse at the start tape at a midweek meeting at Towcester. There are remainers on here and elsewhere who are capable of applying scepticism to all levels of government including the EU. You're not one of them. You've missed the point, Paul. He is only a WUM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted June 16, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted June 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Debunk the comment about the EU parliament being a facade and unable to change the laws please. I’ll wait with bated breath your response. You've had 3 years to understand this extremely basic stuff. https://europa.eu/european-union/eu-law/decision-making/procedures_en I notice Paul is still refusing to name a country with no trade deals that has a flourishing economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, boltondiver said: You've missed the point, Paul. He is only a WUM. If that's what he is then he's good at it. At least if that's the case there's hope he doesn't seriously believe all the crap he writes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Just now, Cheese said: You've had 3 years to understand this extremely basic stuff. https://europa.eu/european-union/eu-law/decision-making/procedures_en I notice Paul is still refusing to name a country with no trade deals that has a flourishing economy. The UK would have several trade deals. And why are you refusing to deal with several points I've raised in the last half an hour. You can't. Plain and simple. That's now the end of this conversation. I may as well talk to a swamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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