Politics

[Escobarp]

14 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

A while ago TC cited Brexit and the pound as one of the factors in their downfall. The European press have reported this morning quite correctly that Brexit has played a part in the companies downfall. Apart from the Guardian not a single British paper has reported this. It goes to show how Brexit is a cult built on lies and propaganda. Zero honesty and when things go wrong you get a shrugging of shoulders and "not anything to do with us". 

Of course TC are not going bust entirely because of Brexit but its played a part in it. That is an absolute fact. Brexiteers don't like the facts though. 

Let me educate you fanny5. I worked with TC a few years ago not directly but let’s say hypothetically I worked for a supplier of their most important commodity. Said company I worked for was on the verge of Cutting supply of this commodity. A deal was struck and TC were continued to be supplied with this product. But there were strict conditions. Since that day there have been 6 of 7 instances where tc nearly had the commodity removed due to failings to adhere to the conditions of supply. 4 of these meetings happened, wait for it, pre referendum. 

‘The company was on borrowed time. Weak pound has contributed. Would the pound have weakened without brexit? Possibly possibly not. Has brexit possibly contributed to the demise? Yeah I would say so. Here is the sting in the tale. Sit down.

 

But has brexit been allowed to happen? No. Why? You tell me? Was tc business plan for the last 3 years based on an orderly exit from the eu? it was. Has the upheaval caused by brexit not being allowed to happen contributed to the demise of TC? Absolutely it has  

end of lesson.  

Edited September 23, 2019 by Escobarp

[bwfcfan5]

10 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Let me educate you fanny5. I worked with TC a few years ago not directly but let’s say hypothetically I worked for a supplier of their most important commodity. Said company I worked for was on the verge of Cutting supply of this commodity. A deal was struck and TC were continued to be supplied with this product. But there were strict conditions. Since that day there have been 6 of 7 instances where tc nearly had the commodity removed due to failings to adhere to the conditions of supply. 4 of these meetings happened, wait for it, pre referendum. 

‘The company was on borrowed time. Weak pound has contributed. Would the pound have weakened without brexit? Possibly possibly not. Has brexit possibly contributed to the demise? Yeah I would say so. Here is the sting in the tale. Sit down.

 

But has brexit been allowed to happen? No. Why? You tell me? Was tc business plan for the last 3 years based on an orderly exit from the eu? it was. Has the upheaval caused by brexit not being allowed to happen contributed to the demise of TC? Absolutely it has  

end of lesson.  

I don't disagree with any of that. Nobody is suggesting Brexit is solely responsible. And yes, had we left with a deal and the pound had recovered and market confidence recovered we may well be looking at something different. 

But that's the rub - a deal was negotiated that the Brexiteers didn't like. It included their red lines but the consequence of that was a situation they weren't happy with. And the problem is instead of them holding their hands up and saying "look its harder than we thought lets re-think what we want in a deal, or compromise" - they became more and more hardline. Doubling down on the lie that it would all be a piece of cake with little consequence. 

 

 

[birch-chorley]

13 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

But has brexit been allowed to happen? No. Why? You tell me? Was tc business plan for the last 3 years based on an orderly exit from the eu? it was. Has the upheaval caused by brexit not being allowed to happen contributed to the demise of TC? Absolutely it has  

end of lesson.  

Firstly, it was always going to take at least two years, given Article 50. But the vast majority weren’t aware of this, even on here we had apparently clever individuals like Maggie Tate saying it was a two week job 

Secondly, we’ve had a deal on the table that honours the referendum and would take us out. Not enough MP’s were pragmatic enough to take it and we have been left in deadlock

I guess parliamentary deadlock was always going to be a risk 

In the mean time the weak pound will hurt our economy far more than it will benefit it 

[Escobarp]

2 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Firstly, it was always going to take at least two years, given Article 50. But the vast majority weren’t aware of this, even on here we had apparently clever individuals like Maggie Tate saying it was a two week job 

Secondly, we’ve had a deal on the table that honours the referendum and would take us out. Not enough MP’s were pragmatic enough to take it and we have been left in deadlock

I guess parliamentary deadlock was always going to be a risk 

In the mean time the weak pound will hurt our economy far more than it will benefit it 

This is the key issue we have and continue to have. Our MPs have and are continuing to cause chaos. Both remain and leave minded MPs. 

So rather than blame the existence of brexit it’s about time that the people causing this started to take accountability for what this is doing to our country 

[ZiggyStardust]

41 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

To be fair, TC have been in the shit for several years. Lots of factors haven't helped in recent times of which a weak pound is just one.

As TC are also resonsible for bring tourists TO this country, the weak pound has also helped as well as hindered.

TC still had a travel agents in Radcliffe until about  year ago. Popped in once for some last minute currency, chatting with the girl in there, she was saying I was the first customer thay had that week. It was a Friday.

Thats the core problem TC had, they were still using a 1970's model in the 2010's.

Brexit was pretty much an irrelevence to the failing.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Moreover if it was such an important factor, why aren't we seeing other travel companies going tits up? It would be bad for them all wouldn't it?

Perhaps they need to start building in more resilience too; as Greta's message grows, are people going to start to reduce their air miles?

[Moon boy]

38 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I don't disagree with any of that. Nobody is suggesting Brexit is solely responsible. And yes, had we left with a deal and the pound had recovered and market confidence recovered we may well be looking at something different. 

But that's the rub - a deal was negotiated that the Brexiteers didn't like. It included their red lines but the consequence of that was a situation they weren't happy with. And the problem is instead of them holding their hands up and saying "look its harder than we thought lets re-think what we want in a deal, or compromise" - they became more and more hardline. Doubling down on the lie that it would all be a piece of cake with little consequence. 

 

 

‘A deal was negotiated that the Brexiteers didn’t like’ that’s true, but

Remainers didn’t like it either because not enough voted for it, you know that TM’s deal  is a shit deal that both sides won’t accept so why don’t you be honest and say you won’t accept any deal that takes the U.K. out of the EU

When Boris comes back with a new deal do you think the Remain MP’s will vote for it?

my guess is they won’t and neither will you, so it leaves us with a ‘no deal’, you’ll then blame Leavers, let’s try and be honest

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Moon boy said:

‘A deal was negotiated that the Brexiteers didn’t like’ that’s true, but

Remainers didn’t like it either because not enough voted for it, you know that TM’s deal  is a shit deal that both sides won’t accept so why don’t you be honest and say you won’t accept any deal that takes the U.K. out of the EU

When Boris comes back with a new deal do you think the Remain MP’s will vote for it?

my guess is they won’t and neither will you, so it leaves us with a ‘no deal’, you’ll then blame Leavers, let’s try and be honest

If Boris does come back with a more acceptable deal, that removes/sorts out the backstop issue, and one or two concerns elsewhere then I have a feeling it will get through.

Iirc, at the last vote, the margin was 40 odd. A swing of a little over 20 will do it, which isn't that big in the scheme of things.

Just depends upon whether he can get enough of a change without his ultimate sanction being available. (Unless he's found an alternative way).

[MalcolmW]

The Flint/Nandy wing of Labour MPs in Northern towns who solidly voted to leave might supply enough votes. Or not.

[Mounts Kipper]

3 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

Name one

Not some tin pot firm either 

Find me a large company who’s domestic business has had a massive benefit from the weak pound, I’ve not come across any so far 

Call it project fear all you want, exchange rates of 1.2 $ vs £ and near parity to the Euro will have put plenty off spending as much on holidays over the last 3 years 

Let’s put the cyclical nonsense to bed as well! Go back to the first few pages of this thread and it was argued that the weak pound was a seasonal thing, it’s clear that BREXIT uncertainty drives its value down 

Its time to get a deal done so we can all move on from the ‘uncertainty’, take what’s on the table or a very similar version of it with a small tweak here and there 

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-kingdom/total-exports-growth

The overall picture since June 2016 is an increase in exports, that sector has benefited from the weaker pound.  

[birch-chorley]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-kingdom/total-exports-growth

The overall picture since June 2016 is an increase in exports, that sector has benefited from the weaker pound.  

So you can’t name 1 large company that is benefiting from a weak pound? 

[MalcolmW]

10 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

So you can’t name 1 large company that is benefiting from a weak pound? 

Glaxo SK

Sage

[Mounts Kipper]

13 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

So you can’t name 1 large company that is benefiting from a weak pound? 

I could if I googled it, but the overall picture is that UK exports have increased and benefited from the weaker pound as the graph highlights.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[birch-chorley]

5 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

Glaxo SK

Sage

Didn’t Sage’s shares tank in July? 

I’ve not seen GSK come out and say they have benefitted from a weaker pound either, happy to be proven wrong if you can share your link / reference? 

[bwfcfan5]

39 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

‘A deal was negotiated that the Brexiteers didn’t like’ that’s true, but

Remainers didn’t like it either because not enough voted for it, you know that TM’s deal  is a shit deal that both sides won’t accept so why don’t you be honest and say you won’t accept any deal that takes the U.K. out of the EU

When Boris comes back with a new deal do you think the Remain MP’s will vote for it?

my guess is they won’t and neither will you, so it leaves us with a ‘no deal’, you’ll then blame Leavers, let’s try and be honest

Hmm. But remainers never promised a great deal. And never said there'd be no downsides. They said all along that we already had the best deal.

So surely, the Brexiteers are the ones who lied and then couldn't reconcile their position so just lied some more?

If Brexiteers had voted for it we'd not be here now. I think remaining is better than leaving. I see no reason not to think that. But the deal was better than the position we're in now and I'd have probably voted for it as an MP. Probably.

But that doesn't mean we should not point out how ridiculous Brexiteers have made themselves look. The lies always catch up with you. 

[miamiwhite]

4 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

A while ago TC cited Brexit and the pound as one of the factors in their downfall. The European press have reported this morning quite correctly that Brexit has played a part in the companies downfall. Apart from the Guardian not a single British paper has reported this. It goes to show how Brexit is a cult built on lies and propaganda. Zero honesty and when things go wrong you get a shrugging of shoulders and "not anything to do with us". 

Of course TC are not going bust entirely because of Brexit but its played a part in it. That is an absolute fact. Brexiteers don't like the facts though. 

The Guardian ?

You might as well get Jo Swinson to voice her biased opinion on it.

BBC nail it fully with the facts

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46452374

[Tonge moor green jacket]

58 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

The Guardian ?

You might as well get Jo Swinson to voice her biased opinion on it.

BBC nail it fully with the facts

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46452374

He's becoming besotted with brexit.

 

 

[miamiwhite]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

He's becoming besotted with brexit.

 

 

He is mate.

Even the BBC article gives it the briefest of mentions but it’s in the Guardian so has to be gospel

We should look at the folk on here and the endless holiday threads, no one I know has even cited Brexit for not making holiday plans.

Cook’s had have issues major issues for many years as we all know, but let’s be hip and cite Brexit as a reason.

[Spider]

5 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I could if I googled it, but the overall picture is that UK exports have increased and benefited from the weaker pound as the graph highlights.

By your logic, the pound will be strong as an ox after Brexit, so the export party will be over.

Make your mind up 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

He is mate.

Even the BBC article gives it the briefest of mentions but it’s in the Guardian so has to be gospel

We should look at the folk on here and the endless holiday threads, no one I know has even cited Brexit for not making holiday plans.

Cook’s had have issues major issues for many years as we all know, but let’s be hip and cite Brexit as a reason.

Too much debt has killed them

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, boltondiver said:

Too much debt has killed them

That and a defunct business model. 

Archaic business. Was back in the time I had dealings with them and just hasn’t moved forward sufficiently with the times sadly 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

That and a defunct business model. 

Archaic business. Was back in the time I had dealings with them and just hasn’t moved forward sufficiently with the times sadly 

588 retail units!

[Mounts Kipper]

20 minutes ago, Spider said:

By your logic, the pound will be strong as an ox after Brexit, so the export party will be over.

Make your mind up 

What do you mean make my mind up? I’m just stating a fact.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

16 minutes ago, Spider said:

By your logic, the pound will be strong as an ox after Brexit, so the export party will be over.

Make your mind up 

We've been told that it costs more to buy raw materials when the pound is low which affects how cheap exports can be.

Therefore the converse must also stand when the pound is high.

Maybe it's not as important as it might be thought of, unless it gets too low and inflation goes up.

But that hasn't happened yet, so all in all no need for concern I reckon.

 

[Guest]

Labour seemed to vote to stay on the fence, if I read it correctly?