Politics

[Salford Trotter]

24 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Of course you would say that!

You seem to want to put our country down, that we are inferior to some nonce bureaucratic non-state.

 

 

Have you read the post? It's nothing about putting our country down, we were unprepared for the task ahead and we got caught out. You'd think that in the biggest negotiation this country has ever undertaken that at least we would have done the basic preparation in advance. I know when I've lead negotiations with big customers we used to scenario plan every possible outcome and agree our strategy in advance knowing that we had fully costed tradeables at our finger tips. If you fail to prepare then you prepare to fail, it's as simple as that. I don't know what you do as a job but surely you can appreciate the difference between being unpatriotic and being unprepared.  

Edited July 18, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[Farrelli]

18 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Of course you would say that!

You seem to want to put our country down, that we are inferior to some nonce bureaucratic non-state.

 

 

That's not what ST is saying at all, but our lack of preparation is an issue.

It was said many times, on here and elsewhere, that the negotiations would be tricky and probably lengthy and that the EU would not want to reward the UK with a better deal for leaving. However, this kind of talk was mostly dismissed by leavers. 

[Cheese]

28 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

You seem to want to put our country down, that we are inferior to some nonce bureaucratic non-state.

Waving a flag and singing the national anthem doesn't pay the bills mate.

[mickbrown]

Boris in bullshitting bastard shocker. 

This is the  future boys and girls, better get used to it.

Endless bluster, bollocks and bullshit. 

Churchillian my arse. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Have you read the post? It's nothing about putting our country down, we were unprepared for the task ahead and we got caught out. You'd think that in the biggest negotiation this country has ever undertaken that at least we would have done the basic preparation in advance. I know when I've lead negotiations with big customers we used to scenario plan every possible outcome and agree our strategy in advance knowing that we had fully costed tradeables at our finger tips. If you fail to prepare then you prepare to fail, it's as simple as that. I don't know what you do as a job but surely you can appreciate the difference between being unpatriotic and being unprepared.  

Sure.

Theresa was very happy for it to fail, in my view, hence the lack of preparation.

You and others do take delight in it, though.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

 I reckon she got pretty much what she set out to get, give or take a little.

Just that few others wanted it!😀

[Salford Trotter]

Just now, boltondiver said:

Sure.

Theresa was very happy for it to fail, in my view, hence the lack of preparation.

You and others do take delight in it, though.

I don't take delight in it at all far from it I am as concerned as the next person about the implications on our economy. I and others have been saying this for the last 3 years that this will be a tough negotiation and if we get a WA the FTA will be 10 x as tough to negotiate as will all the other FTA deals around the world that some on here think will be hanging off trees. I just hope the reality is dawning on folk now that we are almost at the point of no return and leaving without a deal should never be a consideration. I am encouraged by the recent reaction of Dr Fox who is finally waking up to the fact that this period will not be the "easiest in history" and he famously suggested it would be in 2016. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Did you believe his claims, back when he made them?

[Salford Trotter]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Did you believe his claims, back when he made them?

Not at all but plenty on here did, phrases like "we're holding all the cards", "it's in their interests to get the deal done", "do you think Mercedes and BMW want to lose their car sales in the UK? They will tell Merkel to give us concessions" and "we're the 5th biggest economy in the world of course they will want to get a deal done" etc were often quoted. Those thoughts were and are for the birds as the EU were always going to protect their interests above all else. Yeah sure they want a WA that works for them and it was up to us to make sure we were prepared well enough to get a deal that works for us too but we weren't. Do you think Johnson will now get the concessions he wants? Do you think after seeing  him on the hustings and his lack of detail/understanding about his options that he has the where with all to get the UK through a No Deal relatively unscathed? I don't believe he has a proper plan and we will lurch towards No Deal but fingers crossed Parliament can prevent that catastrophe from happening   

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Not at all but plenty on here did, phrases like "we're holding all the cards", "it's in their interests to get the deal done", "do you think Mercedes and BMW want to lose their car sales in the UK? They will tell Merkel to give us concessions" and "we're the 5th biggest economy in the world of course they will want to get a deal done" etc were often quoted. Those thoughts were and are for the birds as the EU were always going to protect their interests above all else. Yeah sure they want a WA that works for them and it was up to us to make sure we were prepared well enough to get a deal that works for us too but we weren't. Do you think Johnson will now get the concessions he wants? Do you think after seeing  him on the hustings and his lack of detail/understanding about his options that he has the where with all to get the UK through a No Deal relatively unscathed? I don't believe he has a proper plan and we will lurch towards No Deal but fingers crossed Parliament can prevent that catastrophe from happening   

The point is you don’t believe, but you never did. In your country v a foreign bureaucracy, and are happy to take the piss.

This is why I mention “brainwashing “

[Salford Trotter]

Just now, boltondiver said:

The point is you don’t believe, but you never did. In your country v a foreign bureaucracy, and are happy to take the piss.

This is why I mention “brainwashing “

It's not brainwashing it's called being pragmatic rather than this utopian view of the world that you and others have and I think the quotes above prove my point. If I take the piss then it's because I find the counter argument unrealistic and try and articulate it in a polite way, as you can see I take plenty back.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

Not at all but plenty on here did, phrases like "we're holding all the cards", "it's in their interests to get the deal done", "do you think Mercedes and BMW want to lose their car sales in the UK? They will tell Merkel to give us concessions" and "we're the 5th biggest economy in the world of course they will want to get a deal done" etc were often quoted. Those thoughts were and are for the birds as the EU were always going to protect their interests above all else. Yeah sure they want a WA that works for them and it was up to us to make sure we were prepared well enough to get a deal that works for us too but we weren't. Do you think Johnson will now get the concessions he wants? Do you think after seeing  him on the hustings and his lack of detail/understanding about his options that he has the where with all to get the UK through a No Deal relatively unscathed? I don't believe he has a proper plan and we will lurch towards No Deal but fingers crossed Parliament can prevent that catastrophe from happening   

I would hope Boris will include relevant people in his discussions, not marginalise them before starting.

As the top man, he's not going to know everything, but how he delegates and sets out what changes would be required to those negotiators is what's important.

TM had ministers for brexit, but pissed them off and seemingly ended up doing it herself.

We don't yet know what will happen, but who knows it might turn out to be his making.

We can't carry on in limbo though, so it's time to get behind whoever gets the top job and judge later.

[Salford Trotter]

No Deal has just got a bit harder 

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

No Deal has just got a bit harder 

Excellent news.

[Salford Trotter]

16 hours ago, boltondiver said:

Or is it?

they seem to have been busy

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/cabinet-office/brexit-what-next-for-the-isle-of-man/brexit-faqs/?iomg-device=Mobile

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-kipper-rant-eu-rules-uk-commission-speech-a9010436.html

What another Johnson whopper! How can people take this numpty seriously??

[Sweep]

6 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-kipper-rant-eu-rules-uk-commission-speech-a9010436.html

What another Johnson whopper! How can people take this numpty seriously??

You'd have thought he would have done a bit of research and realised the whole "Kipper" story was bollocks,fuck all to do with the EU, a law/rule solely of our own making.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

No Deal has just got a bit harder 

A bit. Remarkable hair splitting going on.

Nigel will be rubbing his hands together.

[Sweep]

1 hour ago, Salford Trotter said:

No Deal has just got a bit harder 

I'm not sure even Boris would have been silly enough to suspend Parliament to force through "no deal"

He'll be happy its happened though, as its his ready made excuse for not leaving on 31st October..... "I would have definitely left with No Deal by suspending parliament, but that's been prevented now, blah, blah, bumble, bumble, hmmph"

Edited July 18, 2019 by Sweep

[Salford Trotter]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

A bit. Remarkable hair splitting going on.

Nigel will be rubbing his hands together.

I accept that this doesn't stop the proroguing of parliament but at least MPs can recall parliament after that who knows what could happen. At this rate there is no way Johnson is getting a WA through with this parliamentary maths so he might not have an option but going to the country probably next Spring or even earlier. What happens to him if we don't leave on 31st October?  

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I'm not sure even Boris would have been silly enough to suspend Parliament to force through "no deal"

He'll be happy its happened though, as its his ready made excuse for not leaving on 31st October..... "I would have definitely left with No Deal by suspending parliament, but that's been prevented now, blah, blah, bumble, bumble, hmmph"

Though if the threat is removed, it does potentially make a good deal more difficult.

More ever decreasing circles of political minutiae. There could well be a big new player at the next election.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

I accept that this doesn't stop the proroguing of parliament but at least MPs can recall parliament after that who knows what could happen. At this rate there is no way Johnson is getting a WA through with this parliamentary maths so he might not have an option but going to the country probably next Spring or even earlier. What happens to him if we don't leave on 31st October?  

See, I'm not sure it would take a huge amount of work to get something which would yield a majority: both candidates are saying the backstop is dead.

Get that sorted and who knows; sooner or later MPs will realise that procrastination opens the door for the BP, and for many an end to their jobs.

[Sweep]

2 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

 What happens to him if we don't leave on 31st October?  

I think Moon Boy said its impossible for us not to leave by then, as its "law"

 

..... No way we're leaving this side of Easter 2020, with the way the parliamentry sums currently are. Either a GE or a 2nd referendum in March I reckon

[Salford Trotter]

6 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I think Moon Boy said its impossible for us not to leave by then, as its "law"

 

..... No way we're leaving this side of Easter 2020, with the way the parliamentry sums currently are. Either a GE or a 2nd referendum in March I reckon

One of the SKY pundits was even taking about the call for revocation was growing or at least in a 2nd referendum it would be a straight choice between No Deal and revocation. We are certainly in unprecedented times

[Salford Trotter]

9 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I think Moon Boy said its impossible for us not to leave by then, as its "law"

 

..... No way we're leaving this side of Easter 2020, with the way the parliamentry sums currently are. Either a GE or a 2nd referendum in March I reckon

imagine what Mr Hanley would be like if that happened🤣

[Sweep]

I'd worry for people like PH and Moon Boy if we did revoke, I think they'd self harm