Politics

[bwfcfan5]

50 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

That we could not escape unilaterally. Or did TM insert that?   

That was always the backstop. If you have a unilateral exit it isn't a backstop is it? Just a pointless clause with no legal force at all. 

The whole point of the backstop is a legal way of upholding the good friday agreement - and it was a key part of Theresa May's negotiation. 

[Mounts Kipper]

22 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

That was always the backstop. If you have a unilateral exit it isn't a backstop is it? Just a pointless clause with no legal force at all. 

The whole point of the backstop is a legal way of upholding the good friday agreement - and it was a key part of Theresa May's negotiation. 

It can still be a backstop, but it ceases to be a back stop if we unilateral decide to exit it. That is where the EU need to get to and stop fucking about. They will agree this but they are just playing a fucking game. It is fucking tedious, shame the government not got a big majority in parliament that would help us stop all the shenanigans.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Sweep]

13 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

 It is fucking tedious, shame the government not got a big majority in parliament that would help us stop all the shenanigans.

True, but the British public decided they didn't want May to have a majority - she should have wiped Labour out last time, but fucked it up - the ramifications of that will be felt for many more years yet

 

#strongandstable

[Sweep]

17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It can still be a backstop, but it ceases to be a back stop if we unilateral decide to exit it. That is where the EU need to get to and stop fucking about. They will agree this but they are just playing a fucking game.

I'm glad you're 100% positive they will, as not that many other people are that confident

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, boltondiver said:

I’d turn it down and hope for a WTO deal.

Time is very limited, so it might happen. If not, it might happen at the end of any pathetic delay.

 

Wouldn't bother me if that happened, just can't see it. Parliament will stitch that one up.

As I've said before, I reckon there's been so much negativity around it, it would make it all the more difficult to succeed.

A delay wouldn't bring the screechers on board neither, I've heard at least two openly admit previously, that they wouldn't vote for any deal. One an hour or two back openly admitting that he wants to put an amendment to any deal that is brought back- without even seeing it - with regard to a second referendum.

With such scurrilous behaviour, I fear it's a take it now or lose it choice.

Last week you were feeling it won't happen, and I was more confident.

I think it might be role reversal now.

They're all cunts.

[darwen_white]

2 hours ago, boltondiver said:

To my fellow brexiteers;

if you were an MP, which way would you vote?

Vote against any deal, even with the backstop fully removed.

Nothing to lose gambling on No Deal

Let's go WTO 👍

[Mounts Kipper]

Mays off to Strasbourg now and announcement at 9pm in Strasbourg tonight. EU rumoured to have moved position, be surprised if it’s enough of a movement to get through parliament. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It can still be a backstop, but it ceases to be a back stop if we unilateral decide to exit it. That is where the EU need to get to and stop fucking about. They will agree this but they are just playing a fucking game. It is fucking tedious, shame the government not got a big majority in parliament that would help us stop all the shenanigans.

Perhaps the way around it would be to allow unilateral exit for either party but make it clear that exiting in such a manner would be considered a clear breach of the good Friday agreement. That way any British government who tried to unilaterally exit would have to accept that breach in the agreement and understand the implications? That would hopefully satisfy Ireland and the UK.

Anyhow I hope that the deal gets through because ultimately it’s not as good as the deal we have now and isn’t as good as a Norway type compromise. But as I cannot see a clear route to either of those this deal as bad as it is, is also as good as we will get. But I hope once it’s through the Tories get rid of May as she cannot be allowed to negotiate a single part of the next and most crucial stage of the process.

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Perhaps the way around it would be to allow unilateral exit for either party but make it clear that exiting in such a manner would be considered a clear breach of the good Friday agreement. That way any British government who tried to unilaterally exit would have to accept that breach in the agreement and understand the implications? That would hopefully satisfy Ireland and the UK.

Anyhow I hope that the deal gets through because ultimately it’s not as good as the deal we have now and isn’t as good as a Norway type compromise. But as I cannot see a clear route to either of those this deal as bad as it is, is also as good as we will get. But I hope once it’s through the Tories get rid of May as she cannot be allowed to negotiate a single part of the next and most crucial stage of the process.

Why’s Norway better deal? Still pay in, still have to have freedom of movement and no seat at the table and have to abide by ECJ. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

23 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

Vote against any deal, even with the backstop fully removed.

Nothing to lose gambling on No Deal

Let's go WTO 👍

I'd agree if I had confidence in parliament. And the speaker.

[tyldesley_white]

26 minutes ago, darwen_white said:

Vote against any deal, even with the backstop fully removed.

Nothing to lose gambling on No Deal

Let's go WTO 👍

And how does that work with the Good Friday Agreement ? 

[bwfcfan5]

22 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I'd agree if I had confidence in parliament. And the speaker.

Do you have any confidence in May and her government?

[Salford Trotter]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It can still be a backstop, but it ceases to be a back stop if we unilateral decide to exit it. That is where the EU need to get to and stop fucking about. They will agree this but they are just playing a fucking game. It is fucking tedious, shame the government not got a big majority in parliament that would help us stop all the shenanigans.

If we can exit without recourse to the EU then it is not a backstop as laid out in the WA. That's why everyone wants the text changed in the legally binding document

Edited March 11, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[Sweep]

40 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Why’s Norway better deal? Still pay in, still have to have freedom of movement and no seat at the table and have to abide by ECJ. 

Indeed, their deal is massively shit

[Sweep]

1 hour ago, darwen_white said:

 

Nothing to lose gambling on No Deal

Let's go WTO 👍

In not sure I agree with that. Other than Bolty, you're about the only person (other than some grandstanding politicians) who think going WTO is a great idea

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sweep said:

In not sure I agree with that. Other than Bolty, you're about the only person (other than some grandstanding politicians) who think going WTO is a great idea

Excuse me!

[bwfcfan5]

4 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Indeed, their deal is massively shit

They have access to the single market which is worth an absolute fortune to our economy. So it’s not shit. It’s just damage limitation. 

[Salford Trotter]

9 minutes ago, Sweep said:

In not sure I agree with that. Other than Bolty, you're about the only person (other than some grandstanding politicians) who think going WTO is a great idea

Even the ERG don't want No Deal, it will be the biggest economic disaster for all concerned full stop. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, darwen_white said:

Vote against any deal, even with the backstop fully removed.

Nothing to lose gambling on No Deal

Let's go WTO 👍

Have you ever had an original thought, or have you always just repeated meaningless slogans invented by people who say things you like to hear? 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Have you ever had an original thought, or have you always just repeated meaningless slogans invented by people who say things you like to hear? 

Do you still reckon “WTO?”

[bwfcfan5]

47 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

Even the ERG don't want No Deal, it will be the biggest economic disaster for all concerned full stop. 

I think the ERG are preparing to back whatever May brings back unless it’s a real shitshow. I think they know that it might be now or never. I think the deal might just pass which will be a relief to some degree.

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, boltondiver said:

Do you still reckon “WTO?”

I still reckon worst case scenario, which is a "No Deal" exit on the 29th of March.

The WTO isn't what you seem to think it is.

[MalcolmW]

Some berk has pushed a leaflet through my letterbox for a people's vote march on the 23rd. Park Lane to Westminster.

Coach from Crewe at 6.30am costing £25 (£10 discount for students).

On mature reflection I am not going for very many reasons.

[Moon boy]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I think the ERG are preparing to back whatever May brings back unless it’s a real shitshow. I think they know that it might be now or never. I think the deal might just pass which will be a relief to some degree.

The ERG will not support this deal unless Cox says in Parliament that it’s not legally binding, and the EU won’t agree to that, yet

[bwfcfan5]

6 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

The ERG will not support this deal unless Cox says in Parliament that it’s not legally binding, and the EU won’t agree to that, yet

I think there will be some tweaks to arbitration and some changes to legal advice based on wordplay more than anything else. But if ERG reject it they risk no Brexit or a long delay. I think rejecting it could bring government down and then who knows? I sense they don’t fancy rolling dice again. We will see tomorrow.