Sweaty Ken

[barrycowdrill]

But see we are here again aren’t we? 

Picking over the bones of whether Ken deserves to pay himself anything. I think the common view is, yes he is the debate is the value of those payments. Some will say it’s justified others will say it’s not. Ultimately it’s his gig so he can do as he pleases as long as he doesn’t jeopardise the position of the club. In my mind he isn’t. 

Its all well and good attention seekers publishing these reports painting KA as some immoral owner in comparison to others who have taken next to nothing. The other 23 chairmen haven’t had 1% of the shit to deal with that Ken has over his 2 and a half years so it’s a completely redundant point 

added to that, half of these clowns somewhere have links to or have participated in work for the ST at some point. How long did they last getting paid fuck all for going to a meeting every now and again and whatever “work” that consistent of? 5 fucking minutes. That’s how long 

if they really want to challenge Ken stump up the money to buy him out. Otherwise fuck right off 

[Mounts Kipper]

I think the fact KA was supported by Eddie Davies says everything you need to know about whether he’s doing a good job running BWFC all these folk saying he’s dragging the club through the mud should understand it’s an unfortunate side effect of the mess he’s been left with. 

I think Eddie knew he’d dropped a poison chalice into KA lap and was trying to help KA to put things right.

I’m firmly in the KA camp at the moment but hope and pray he does the right thing by the club when he passes it on. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[gonzo]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16970996.amp/#click=https://t.co/bWH2nuS68H

[Mounts Kipper]

20 minutes ago, gonzo said:

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16970996.amp/#click=https://t.co/bWH2nuS68H

Echo’s my post above which I posted without reading the article. As long as KA steers the club through these sticky times and does not shaft the club when he leaves he’s ok by me. I think he’s gone above and beyond the call of duty considering he’s not a BWFC fan. 

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, ZicoKelly said:

She was director of Burnden Leisure for a week

She was director of Bolton Wanderers for several months from December 2016 to September 2017

The accounts are for Bolton Wanderers, which show KA, PA and DH as directors

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00043026/filing-history/MzIwMTM0ODM0OWFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

The note 28 referrerd to say Deano got 50k and Athos Consulting got 125k in consultancy fees

There's also reference to a loan from Brett Warburton which is still due a payment

I can't see anything on a directors fee for 525k but it might be referenced elsewhere

 

But you're now claiming very different things to Shortland. And in fact employing his tactic of when something doesn't fit with the details, just change your story to another conspiracy. His claim was that PA had been added as a BL director for a week so that she and KA could be paid £199K not disclosed through the books. There is no way of proving or disproving that and in fact he didn't even suggest it was a fact, he was just throwing shit at a wall.

Whatever the case it doesn't really matter. Ken is running the club as owner and anyone who thinks he should do it for free is off their rocker IMHO. 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by bwfcfan5

[Big E]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I think the fact KA was supported by Eddie Davies says everything you need to know about whether he’s doing a good job running BWFC all these folk saying he’s dragging the club through the mud should understand it’s an unfortunate side effect of the mess he’s been left with. 

I think Eddie knew he’d dropped a poison chalice into KA lap and was trying to help KA to put things right.

I’m firmly in the KA camp at the moment but hope and pray he does the right thing by the club when he passes it on. 

See just when you think he’s a complete barn pot he posts something logical.....you little tinker mounts

[gonzo]

28 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Echo’s my post above which I posted without reading the article. As long as KA steers the club through these sticky times and does not shaft the club when he leaves he’s ok by me. I think he’s gone above and beyond the call of duty considering he’s not a BWFC fan. 

I’ve seen it first hand mate. They were very good friends. 

Traf said a while ago and I’m firmly in agreement that when PG passed on and subsequent crumbling of the business and everything associated with the club continued, I think ED and more so his family just wanted out at any cost.

As time passed and things began to heal, ED became more and more involved with KA on the day to day running of things. 

KA trusted ED and vice versa. I think any animosity that KA has shown for previous regimes was directed solely at PG etc.

I saw myself just being in their company the difference in relationships between ED and KA camps changed dramatically in the 2 years they worked together. 

 

[Zico]

33 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

But you're now claiming very different things to Shortland. And in fact employing his tactic of when something doesn't fit with the details, just change your story to another conspiracy. His claim was that PA had been added as a BL director for a week so that she and KA could be paid £199K not disclosed through the books. There is no way of proving or disproving that and in fact he didn't even suggest it was a fact, he was just throwing shit at a wall.

Whatever the case it doesn't really matter. Ken is running the club as owner and anyone who thinks he should do it for free is off their rocker IMHO. 

 

 

see I agree 100% with that bit, which is why he suggests he doesn't take a wage am more into asking questions to find out more if that's actually the case -  it's previously been suggested that he might not benefit from the consultancy fees either, which also seems mental to me

this particular thread of mine started when a bloke said a director was paid £525k - since then it's been suggested that it may have been paid to DH, and also that PA was only a director for a week, with Shortland chucking in additional accusations

since then have found out DH got paid 50k and his Mrs was a director for several months - I'm not changing my story, just saying "well if that's not the case, then what is" - in the same way that you'll have to "change" your case for the defence, or "guesses" given your basis for what's going on has seemingly proved to not be the case

a few posts back folk were being "congratulated" for bringing facts into the debate and which seemingly settled the "argument", that a few posts later didn't turn out to be facts

offer up another explanation if you want, all part of the debate

ultimately we've all be throwing shit at the wall, but it isn't cool to question rather than just accept the job being done because on face value, things are looking relatively up

I'm happy enough that the club's finances are being sorted out and the club is moving upwards, but before I offer my whole hearted support and congratulations to KA, am curious to know if he's doing it without taking a wage, which he's alluded to, or for 4 to 5 times more than more than your average championship director - also been alluded to, all whilst questioning the other claims being chucked about by heavily pro and heavily anti KA parties

if the club hadn't been on the brink numerous times in recent time due to questionable approaches in how the financial side of things were ran, I'd probably not even ask the questions and crack on in ignorance, then wonder how we got in this mess if the shit hits the fan, like we did last time

[bwfcfan5]

Just now, ZicoKelly said:

see I agree 100% with that bit, which is why he suggests he doesn't take a wage am more into asking questions to find out more if that's actually the case -  it's previously been suggested that he might not benefit from the consultancy fees either, which also seems mental to me

this particular thread of mine started when a bloke said a director was paid £525k - since then it's been suggested that it may have been paid to DH, and also that PA was only a director for a week, with Shortland chucking in additional accusations

since then have found out DH got paid 50k and his Mrs was a director for several months - I'm not changing my story, just saying "well if that's not the case, then what is" - in the same way that you'll have to "change" your case for the defence, or "guesses" given your basis for what's going on has seemingly proved to not be the case

a few posts back folk were being "congratulated" for bringing facts into the debate and which seemingly settled the "argument", that a few posts later didn't turn out to be facts

offer up another explanation if you want, all part of the debate

ultimately we've all be throwing shit at the wall, but it isn't cool to question rather than just accept the job being done because on face value, things are looking relatively up

I'm happy enough that the club's finances are being sorted out and the club is moving upwards, but before I offer my whole hearted support and congratulations to KA, am curious to know if he's doing it without taking a wage, which he's alluded to, or for 4 to 5 times more than more than your average championship director - also been alluded to, all whilst questioning the other claims being chucked about by heavily pro and heavily anti KA parties

if the club hadn't been on the brink numerous times in recent time due to questionable approaches in how the financial side of things were ran, I'd probably not even ask the questions and crack on in ignorance, then wonder how we got in this mess if the shit hits the fan, like we did last time

 

But we've established that PA was a director for a week AFTER the accounting period. So the £525K has nothing to do with her. And the original accusation from Shortland had NOTHING to do with that £525K anyway.

I suspect that money was the DH pay off. Even if it wasn't and KA pocketed it - then fair play. Perhaps it was simply claiming back what he'd temporarily loaned the club - as he has said he does. 

[Zico]

28 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

 

But we've established that PA was a director for a week AFTER the accounting period. So the £525K has nothing to do with her. And the original accusation from Shortland had NOTHING to do with that £525K anyway.

have we?

forgive me if I'm being a m.ong, which I won't rule out at this stage, but as far as I can see the accounts being discussed are for "Bolton Wanderers Football & Athletic Company" which clearly state she was a director from 22nd December 2016 to September 8 2017 - that's in the screengrab I posted above, the bit about DH receiving 50k are from the same accounts, in the link Enzo posted

the link you posted said that she was a director at "Burnden Leisure" for a week 

presumably these are separate entities, with their own accounts?

but it looks like we can dismiss Shortland's claim on her being a director for only a week in order to take payments from BWFC as being bollocks, because the accounts are not for Burnden Leisure, and she was a director for several months

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by ZicoKelly

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, ZicoKelly said:

have we?

forgive me if I'm being a m.ong, which I won't rule out at this stage, but as far as I can see the accounts being discussed are for "Bolton Wanderers Football & Athletic Company" which clearly state she was a director from 22nd December 2016 to September 8 2017 - that's in the screengrab I posted above, the bit about DH receiving 50k are from the same accounts, in the link Enzo posted

the link you posted said that she was a director at "Burnden Leisure" for a week 

presumably these are separate entities, with their own accounts?

but it looks like we can dismiss Shortland's claim on her being a director for only a week in order to take payments from BWFC as being bollocks, because the accounts are not for Burnden Leisure, and she was a director for several months

 

Burnden leisure is the parent company and their accounts are the same. 

We don't know if KA paid himself below the £200K threshold of declaration, nor his wife. But there is absolutely no evidence or hint of evidence to suggest that was the case. 

[Mounts Kipper]

I think Zico is correct to reserve judgement on KA until he’s left the building but there’s no doubt we’re in a better position today than when he walked through the door.

[bwfcfan5]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I think Zico is correct to reserve judgement on KA until he’s left the building but there’s no doubt we’re in a better position today than when he walked through the door.

Oh aye. Reserve judgement. But raking shit up and then when the facts don't fit, trying to change the conspiracy theory helps nobody. 

[gonzo]

Tbf I don’t think that is zicos agenda. Just merely a debate.

its good to have the discussion without a crescendo of nob heads shouting Kens a crook and liar bollocks and exactly why Shortland and firth should come on platforms such as this and get involved instead of whipping up the divs on twitter.

Edited October 10, 2018 by gonzo

[bwfcfan5]

Just now, gonzo said:

Tbf I don’t think that is zicos agenda. Just merely a debate.

its good to have the discussion without a crescendo of nob heads shouting Kens a crook and liar bollocks 

Not Zico's agenda - Shortland and co - that is who I mean. 

[Zico]

6 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Oh aye. Reserve judgement. But raking shit up and then when the facts don't fit, trying to change the conspiracy theory helps nobody. 

that's really not what I'm doing 

but anyway

in the accounts for Burnden Leisure which are here:

http://bit.ly/2yaCckW,

that's the official 48 page PDF linked to from

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00335699/filing-history

it says:

that's in our official accounts for Burnden Leisue - those notes are not in the accounts for BWFC

it says DH got £50k (which is in the other accounts notes)

and KA got £525k (which isn't in the other accounts notes)

the bit about athos is in the other notes

the bit about R Gee isn't

now if that's there  for all to see, why is that professor guy saying 525k went to an un-named party?

and why is KA saying the payment wasn't to him but to other directors? did he mean directors at Inner Circle or something?

I'm not raking shit up, or putting out a theory, these are not accusations, they are questions

there seems to be lot of contradictory facts knocking about now, unless the above information in our official accounts are not facts, and made up, or something

or is that a valid explanation for what they would say that, if it weren't the case?

[bwfcfan5]

18 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

that's really not what I'm doing 

but anyway

in the accounts for Burnden Leisure which are here:

http://bit.ly/2yaCckW,

that's the official 48 page PDF linked to from

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00335699/filing-history

it says:

that's in our official accounts for Burnden Leisue - those notes are not in the accounts for BWFC

it says DH got £50k (which is in the other accounts notes)

and KA got £525k (which isn't in the other accounts notes)

the bit about athos is in the other notes

the bit about R Gee isn't

now if that's there  for all to see, why is that professor guy saying 525k went to an un-named party?

and why is KA saying the payment wasn't to him but to other directors? did he mean directors at Inner Circle or something?

I'm not raking shit up, or putting out a theory, these are not accusations, they are questions

there seems to be lot of contradictory facts knocking about now, unless the above information in our official accounts are not facts, and made up, or something

or is that a valid explanation for what they would say that, if it weren't the case?

Ken says his companies were paid consultancy fees but he wasn't paid a directors fee. End of the day we know he's not doing all this for free. 

BTW - I wasn't accusing you of anything. But likes of Shortland just throw shit at a wall and see what sticks. All sorts of conspiracy theories "hinted" at by him, Firth etc but they never spell it out or show actual proof. 

[barrycowdrill]

So he’s paid himself around half a million quid in the last 2 years or so? 

Some perspective, even if we have only paid half of Amos’ salary over the same period that would of been around £750k

JSL

[tyldesley_white]

11 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

So he’s paid himself around half a million quid in the last 2 years or so? 

Some perspective, even if we have only paid half of Amos’ salary over the same period that would of been around £750k

JSL

he's not really paid himself, he's paid the company he owns , seems a bit nit picky but there is a differance

[barrycowdrill]

5 minutes ago, tyldesley_white said:

he's not really paid himself, he's paid the company he owns , seems a bit nit picky but there is a differance

Ok so he’s extracted the amount from the club over that time. 

I know which outgoing I feel is more justified 

 

[tyldesley_white]

1 minute ago, barrycowdrill said:

Ok so he’s extracted the amount from the club over that time. 

I know which outgoing I feel is more justified 

 

I agree, I should have added that him saying that is as not taken a wage for being a director of BWFC is true, now taking a wage from somewhere else is a different thing.

[Zico]

3 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Ken says his companies were paid consultancy fees but he wasn't paid a directors fee. End of the day we know he's not doing all this for free. 

BTW - I wasn't accusing you of anything. But likes of Shortland just throw shit at a wall and see what sticks. All sorts of conspiracy theories "hinted" at by him, Firth etc but they never spell it out or show actual proof. 

aye, well if nothing else over this past couple of days I now feel confident that we know in that in return for doing a job at the club, KA has took £650k back out one way or another

and that it wasn't DH raking in a massive fee for his troubles

and that Mrs A was a director for 8 months overall at the club

not seen anything yet to suggest anything untoward or dodgy, just him taking an amount that is more than most chairman earn by about 3-4 times

that's also fine, he's doing a job most aren't

for that amount of money I expect him to do a great job and keep the club running and to sort all the shit out, and to also achieve the job he set out to do at the beginning, which was to find a buyer or find investment

he hasn't yet, and the club nearly went under but for the good will of ED and the fan bloke who chipped in recently

so he's doing well enough in that we're still going, he just needs to up his game to justify the fees, IMO

[bwfcfan5]

12 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

aye, well if nothing else over this past couple of days I now feel confident that we know in that in return for doing a job at the club, KA has took £650k back out one way or another

and that it wasn't DH raking in a massive fee for his troubles

and that Mrs A was a director for 8 months overall at the club

not seen anything yet to suggest anything untoward or dodgy, just him taking an amount that is more than most chairman earn by about 3-4 times

that's also fine, he's doing a job most aren't

for that amount of money I expect him to do a great job and keep the club running and to sort all the shit out, and to also achieve the job he set out to do at the beginning, which was to find a buyer or find investment

he hasn't yet, and the club nearly went under but for the good will of ED and the fan bloke who chipped in recently

so he's doing well enough in that we're still going, he just needs to up his game to justify the fees, IMO

Over 2 years that isn't a massive amount. And some of that includes consultancy for Lee's work as an agent - if we didn't pay it him we'd likely pay it somewhere else.

All relative isn't it. Gartside paid himself nearly £600K a year as a direct salary. And one can question whether he was earning that when you see where we ended up. 

I suspect PG will have left us in a worse state than KA will - but proof is in the pudding and all that. 

[gonzo]

Aye the work by LA and his accosiates is often discredited by the twitter divs, but it was our sourcing of players in each window that saw us progress to where we are now. 

All that didn’t happen by magic. The recruitment and progress by the club, whilst under embargo and skint was nothing short of remarkable. 

 

[gonzo]

Couple of ticket deals announced by KA just now.

 

bring your pal for a tenner v Swansea if your an st holder