Sweaty Ken

[stevieb]

It was quoted at the time as 800k

[Eavesy]

I suspect ken expected higher attendances and therefore a couple more £100k in the bank. 

He was probably banking on us having someone to sell in January aswell.

[birch-chorley]

PG was probably banking on us getting back into the PL when he made the deals he did 

Hasn’t stopped Ken continually Piss and moan about the mess he inherited and all the legacy contracts 

Ken is three years in now, most of the agreements currently live are of his making. If he is signing players with his fingers crossed that someone might buy Josh Vela to pay for it then he’s as bad as the previous regime that he continually complains about 

[bwfcfan5]

1 hour ago, Boothy said:

 

Look, the thing is, I don't have to explain anything to you as I'm not the one rattling off hysterical nonsense. If you have something to add to the conversation, that is fine - we are all allowed opinions. What bothers me is the way you portray things as factual or even dismiss previous discussion that is directly addressing your points and explaining the reasoning as to why they wrong.

Take the last paragraph for instance. It has already been succinctly explained that the CONTRACT OF EMPLOYMENT lies between the parent club (EMPLOYER) and the player (EMPLOYEE). The LOAN CONTRACT is between the parent club (LENDER) and BWFC (LOANEE). You are talking about separate contracts and separate issues. 

I'll make your life a little easier this morning by letting you in on a little fact. A verbal agreement under English law is LEGALLY BINDING. There are complication to verbal agreements, such as difficulty in legal settlement due to the ambiguity that may arise if the parties disagree. Now I would presume that Ken is more than aware of this, being the slippery fella that he is. But that is his prerogative. 

Whether he is acting illegally time will tell. Immorally, well that depends where you stand - most would agree it is immoral BUT perhaps, just perhaps, this is the only hand he has to play with.

By the way, I'd personally suggest the figure of success is much higher than you anticipate given the hundreds of years of development on English contract law that enshrine the legality of verbal agreements. Whether they hit court or there is an out of court settlement is another matter. May be Ken has hit a brick wall with this £100 millionaire swampy who will call his bluff? No one knows yet.

Now the factual part is out of the way, which I fully anticipate you will ignore - at the end of the day Kenneth MAY or MAY NOT be bang to rights. We've heard one side of the story on one particular issue which inevitably will be used to further one sides cause. I suspect FGR will quieten down a bit sooner or later as it seems to me that he is treading a fine line on what he is saying about Ken Andersen. 

As far as Norwich goes, we have had a statement from a journalist with a very sketchy track record saying we owe money to Norwich City for loaned players. Factually correct that may be. At a guess, I'm sure plenty of people on here owe "substantial six figure sums" to lenders for their mortgages. Personally, I prefer to know a little more before I bundle plenty of complex issues together and start spouting hysterical misinformed statements.

Just ask yourself one question though. In these past three years, how many times has Ken passed the threshold with one of these suppliers in a legal context? He is sailing very close to the wind, granted, but that is - rightly or wrongly - his style. That may well change in the coming weeks / months but to say he hasn't done anything for the Club or moved us on from the liquidation hearing, to my mind, is baffling. To say he is in it for personal gain, to me, is so obvious that is needn't be written down. Of course he is in it for himself, you would have to be a basket case to take on BWFC for charitable purposes.

 

(Apologies to the WW faithful for a post of Sluffyesque proportion and rant over)

1) I'm not talking about the mechanics of how a wage is transferred into a players account. I'm stating that there is no way on earth FGR signed up to Doidge coming here whilst they covered his wages. No way. Same with the Norwich pair.

2) You haven't answered, why,, we have been placed in a complete registration embargo? 

 

I've been supportive of Ken up until the past month or so. But the fact that a player he has gone on the record as saying "is 100% a BWFC player" has now returned to his parent club after we failed to pay and we find out said club have been covering his wages for 4 months...it just isn't good enough. Ken signed him. He either is incompetent or simply trying to repeatedly pull a fast one. Either way - my patience has been exhausted. He's not being honest with anyone. And there are too many all saying exactly the same thing now. We owe money to our own management team, to ex players, to other clubs, and god knows who else. I had a lot of sympathy when he was sorting the mess, cutting the costs....but now we aren't able to honour contracts he has signed himself...sorry but that is it for me. And I find it hard to see how anyone can realistically defend him over this and the other debacles taking place. 

[Horwich]

My main gripe is him saying he funded the wages, when he didnt

[bwfcfan5]

2 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

PG was probably banking on us getting back into the PL when he made the deals he did 

Hasn’t stopped Ken continually Piss and moan about the mess he inherited and all the legacy contracts 

Ken is three years in now, most of the agreements currently live are of his making. If he is signing players with his fingers crossed that someone might buy Josh Vela to pay for it then he’s as bad as the previous regime that he continually complains about 

This. In a nutshell. Only I'd say he's worse as he is prepared to take the club to the brink by being adversarial. Ultimately he can walk away without any personal penalty. As he's made clear. 

[Casino]

1 minute ago, Horwich said:

My main gripe is him saying he funded the wages, when he didnt

he still says he funded most of it, doesnt he?

[Casino]

2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

1) I'm not talking about the mechanics of how a wage is transferred into a players account. I'm stating that there is no way on earth FGR signed up to Doidge coming here whilst they covered his wages. No way. Same with the Norwich pair.

2) You haven't answered, why,, we have been placed in a complete registration embargo? 

 

I've been supportive of Ken up until the past month or so. But the fact that a player he has gone on the record as saying "is 100% a BWFC player" has now returned to his parent club after we failed to pay and we find out said club have been covering his wages for 4 months...it just isn't good enough. Ken signed him. He either is incompetent or simply trying to repeatedly pull a fast one. Either way - my patience has been exhausted. He's not being honest with anyone. And there are too many all saying exactly the same thing now. We owe money to our own management team, to ex players, to other clubs, and god knows who else. I had a lot of sympathy when he was sorting the mess, cutting the costs....but now we aren't able to honour contracts he has signed himself...sorry but that is it for me. And I find it hard to see how anyone can realistically defend him over this and the other debacles taking place. 

 

so what the fcuk do you propose?

lets not forget that only last friday you were in meltdown cos a 25% off tweet disappeared

[bwfcfan5]

1 minute ago, Casino said:

 

so what the fcuk do you propose?

lets not forget that only last friday you were in meltdown cos a 25% off tweet disappeared

Propose? I'm not proposing anything. Its up to Ken to sell up (as he's admitted in the midst of that rant). If he can't we all know what is coming and I think its the most likely outcome right now sadly. 
I'm not going to protest or throw tennis balls or owt. But there is no point in pretending that we are in safe hands. We very clearly are not. Its pretty obvious that Ken didn't expect to still be here at this stage. 

[bwfcfan5]

Telegraph also reports the Norwich issue of unpaid wages here. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/01/07/forest-green-rovers-sue-bolton-wanderers-breach-contract-christian/

EFL confirm the non-payment of wages issue re Doidge was reported to them and that they will deduct the money from our next payment. 

[Nottm_Wanderer]

2 hours ago, darwen_white said:

Pretty much how I see it.

The lad scores 1 in 17 and goes back. Ken's going to need a return of more like 17 in 17 to stump up the cash - and that would be so he could sell him on.

Other clubs won't fall for it, FGR have been gullible.

Ken has not acted professionally .

What he's done is immoral, unethical and tarnishes the name BWFC .

To say FGR are gullible is incorrect . They expect professional conduct from BWFC. They have had none .

If you see the full interview the FGR chairman speaks and behaves impeccably 

 

 

[Boothy]

7 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

1) I'm not talking about the mechanics of how a wage is transferred into a players account. I'm stating that there is no way on earth FGR signed up to Doidge coming here whilst they covered his wages. No way. Same with the Norwich pair.

You aren't stating though are you? You're explicitly stating things as though they are facts. So Ken hasn't paid a supplier on time? That will catch him up sooner or later and he will either pay or face the consequences - same as all the other instances. You have questioned why Club's would pay their player whilst on loan. That's how it works. Bolton have failed to pay a supplier (surprise, surprise) on time. Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over that? I think the bigger fish to fry here is that he has apparently reneged on a deal to sign a player, which will ultimately come down to how the agreement was carved out. I'm sure Ken think's he has some clout if he can be brazen enough in his discussions about it with the FGR chairman.

7 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

2) You haven't answered, why,, we have been placed in a complete registration embargo? 

I haven't been asked why we have been placed under a registration embargo. My understanding was that it is due to the late wage payment and EFL involvement. I'd be very surprised if a late payment to FGR has caught up with us in a matter of days. Do you know why we are under a "complete registration embargo"?

 

 

[bwfcfan5]

4 minutes ago, Boothy said:

You aren't stating though are you? You're explicitly stating things as though they are facts. So Ken hasn't paid a supplier on time? That will catch him up sooner or later and he will either pay or face the consequences - same as all the other instances. You have questioned why Club's would pay their player whilst on loan. That's how it works. Bolton have failed to pay a supplier (surprise, surprise) on time. Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over that? I think the bigger fish to fry here is that he has apparently reneged on a deal to sign a player, which will ultimately come down to how the agreement was carved out. I'm sure Ken think's he has some clout if he can be brazen enough in his discussions about it with the FGR chairman.

I haven't been asked why we have been placed under a registration embargo. My understanding was that it is due to the late wage payment and EFL involvement. I'd be very surprised if a late payment to FGR has caught up with us in a matter of days. Do you know why we are under a "complete registration embargo"?

 

 

From the Telegraph article....

Quote

Vince said the EFL had agreed to reimburse Forest Green for Doidge’s wages from money that is due to Bolton this month, which the EFL confirmed on Monday. It is understood the sum, which Vince said Bolton had agreed to pay under the terms of the loan, is in excess of £30,000.

Quote

A spokesman for the EFL confirmed Forest Green would be reimbursed for the wages they paid to Doidge during his loan with Bolton. “The issue of non-payment of loan wages was only brought to the EFL’s attention for the first time at the end of last week and as such this has been the earliest opportunity the League has had to intervene,” the spokesman said. “The EFL will deduct any monies owed for the player’s wages from monies that would have otherwise been have paid to Bolton Wanderers.”

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by bwfcfan5

[Sluffy]

10 hours ago, Casino said:

He's not answered the allegation re, shut it down I don't give a fcuk That's the grimmest thing I've heard in this sorry mess but on the other hand, I've said shit in rows that is all bravado They're both less than popular in their business dealings from what I can gather

For what it is worth it now seems clear to me that KA's comments about 'put us in Admin because he has his money is secured and FGR isn't', was just bravado.

I doubt many of the multitude condemning KA out of hand have bothered to watch the interview by Vince and the context of the quotes when he said them - I think most people are simply happy to simply jump on the bandwagon of moral indignation because everyone else and their dog is doing so too.

It's clear from what Vince said (and further remarks he made to Iles in today's BN article about the initial transfer being done between the player and us behind his back - and KA turning him down flat for an initial payment up front - link to article below) that he started off with a low regard for KA - and it is interesting (to me at least) than in his Facebook interview he talks about the 'transfer window' being now open.

Maybe I am putting two and two together here but it sounds a bit like Vince 'threatening' KA with a 'if you won't pay the money for Doidge now, we'll take him back a sell him to someone else instead and our solicitors will be in touch in any event' ultimatum - which of course KA replied back by calling his bluff with the 'my money is 'secure' but yours isn't if you sue, type of reply.

I've put up the full conversation below - which is only two minutes long - and no doubt many others will probably totally disagree with how I've read what as gone on between the two - but that is my take on what went on and why ka said what he said.

The link to Iles article of today is given below.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17341127.bolton-chairman-giving-football-a-bad-name-fgr-chief/

 

 

[Boothy]

1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said:

From the Telegraph article....

 

Yes, I read that already. What is your point? The fact still remains, a supplier hasn't been paid on time and Club's will loan players out on the basis that they pay their salary. 

[Eavesy]

25 minutes ago, Horwich said:

My main gripe is him saying he funded the wages, when he didnt

As casino pointed out, he said in the article he did pay them and that the loan didn’t come near to covering it.

see this is another problem. 

Theres that much shit going about even normal people* are missing stuff and making assumptions and then accusations (pro and con ken)

 

[bwfcfan5]

5 minutes ago, Boothy said:

Yes, I read that already. What is your point? The fact still remains, a supplier hasn't been paid on time and Club's will loan players out on the basis that they pay their salary. 

We failed to pay what we agreed to pay to compensate FGR for the players wages. Ken signed the deal knowing he had to pay that monthly amount to FGR yet hasn't. What is the justification for that? How on earth can you possibly say "that behaviour is ok"?

 

[bwfcfan5]

6 minutes ago, Eavesy said:

As casino pointed out, he said in the article he did pay them and that the loan didn’t come near to covering it.

see this is another problem. 

Theres that much shit going about even normal people* are missing stuff and making assumptions and then accusations (pro and con ken)

 

What was the PFA loan for then?

[blackleywhite]

Read Kens note ...

 

[Boothy]

7 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

We failed [SO FAR] to pay what we agreed to pay to compensate FGR for the players wages. Ken signed the deal knowing he had to pay that monthly amount [DID HE REALLY? MONTHLY? REALLY? WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM?] to FGR yet hasn't. What is the justification for that? How on earth can you possibly say "that behaviour is ok"?

 

Jesus, it's like nutting a fucking brick wall. Now we are almost in agreement on the payment to FGR for Christian Doidge's loan fee's - which will ultimately cover their salary costs. The justification is likely down to cash flow. This doesn't mean the overdue payment disappears. He will get it (sooner rather than later as you have cited). Either way, I haven't justified it or said "that behaviour is ok". You're a grade A numpty and have impeccably proven my point by making up a quote. I assume you're a grown man, please stop fucking making shit up.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Boothy

[Boothy]

6 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

What was the PFA loan for then?

You tell us you know everything.

[Casino]

6 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

We failed to pay what we agreed to pay to compensate FGR for the players wages. Ken signed the deal knowing he had to pay that monthly amount to FGR yet hasn't. What is the justification for that? How on earth can you possibly say "that behaviour is ok"?

 

i dont know where you work, but bloody hell, theres some naivety around

its not a question of OK, its just the way business is

 

i see it every day....on both ends of it

doing it and having it done

 

[bwfcfan5]

8 minutes ago, Casino said:

i dont know where you work, but bloody hell, theres some naivety around

its not a question of OK, its just the way business is

 

i see it every day....on both ends of it

doing it and having it done

 

That doesn't cut it. He signed up to something in August. He knew our cash position and it isn't hard to project cash flow for four months.

Either - he never intended to pay on time...OR he really isn't very good at running the club.

Businesses do indeed run into issues daily where they pay late. I agree. However, for many supply chains such late payment also ends businesses or results in lost jobs on a daily basis too. But the point is that in most business life people do not willingly sign up to contracts and deals they cannot afford in the short term. That is poor form whichever way you look at it. Especially when they cannot pay existing and ongoing commitments on top.  

[Ani]

16 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

We failed to pay what we agreed to pay to compensate FGR for the players wages. Ken signed the deal knowing he had to pay that monthly amount to FGR yet hasn't. What is the justification for that? How on earth can you possibly say "that behaviour is ok"?

 

There is a difference between 'OK' and how things have to be. 

We are skint and living hand to mouth, not sure if you have ever lived like that. But in this instance we owe FGR and Norwich money, we have limited cash and have other bills to pay. However we know that in a couple of weeks we are due a bit load of cash from EFL. They will knock off what we owe the other clubs and that will be taken care of , we get what is left. So we ignore them and let the EFL sort it.

Any of that you disagree with ?

Next bit speculation - KA has decided he does not want to spend £1M on Doidge, by taking the approach he has FGR pull out of the deal so the transfer payments are no longer due and he stays there. Pretty shit for the lad but purely from a BWFC perspective is it the right thing to do ?

 

If you want to have a discussion about the morals of it all and impact on the name of the club that is one thing and everyone agrees it aint great BUT please tell me the alternative ? KA is a snake/shark/shithouse whatever you want to call him, but again please tell me the alternative ?

[Casino]

Just now, bwfcfan5 said:

That doesn't cut it. He signed up to something in August. He knew our cash position and it isn't hard to project cash flow for four months.

Either - he never intended to pay on time...OR he really isn't very good at running the club.

Businesses do indeed run into issues daily where they pay late. I agree. However, for many supply chains such late payment also ends businesses or results in lost jobs on a daily basis too. But the point is that in most business life people do not willingly sign up to contracts and deals they cannot afford in the short term. That is poor form whichever way you look at it. Especially when they cannot pay existing and ongoing commitments on top.  

look at it this way

i buy one of my products every month on 30 day terms

i have 3 suppliers

they get a month at a time

i pay on 90 days

right, not really, but....

similarly, my customers often take 90 days end of month to pay me