Sweaty Ken

[MickyD]

4 points from 4th bottom.

[Ani]

Simply the club is worth what people will pay. If KA does a better job of generating interest and drives price up he deserves the money for being a better salesman. The advantage he has is he will take to brink (and maybe beyond) if he needs to. ED would not risk the club like that and said as much when PG died.

if it was a popularity competition he would get less but it ain’t. I do wonder how many people criticising KA also think ED did not put that much in. 

[Chris Custodiet]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

Simply the club is worth what people will pay. If KA does a better job of generating interest and drives price up he deserves the money for being a better salesman. The advantage he has is he will take to brink (and maybe beyond) if he needs to. ED would not risk the club like that and said as much when PG died.

if it was a popularity competition he would get less but it ain’t. I do wonder how many people criticising KA also think ED did not put that much in. 

If you can get it, you're worth it is the mantra of every dodgy dealer on the planet.  Not for me I'm afraid.

As for ED, the BN was always shy about publishing his phenomenal support for BWFC. Only a month before ED died, Marc Iles was telling his readers daft enough to believe it that Gordon Hargreaves funded the building of the Reebok.

Just for the record, the Reebok was built on borrowed money and it was ED that paid it all off.

[Zico]

3 hours ago, enzo gambaro said:

We were bottom of the Championship ten points shy of safety with an astronomical wage bill, so you could argue we’re in better nick both on and off the pitch.

The official gate for the game against Ipswich the week before the takeover was 1,800 short of the gate for the Norwich game.

 

Aye, you could,bwhereas now wages might be lower but we can't even afford to pay them now and seem to be on the brink from month to month

And I don't think there's any doubt we'll be in league one next season with a far weaker squad than what we had last time and less chance of bouncing back - of course this remains to be seen but only if we stay up will I think we ended up better off

Right now I don't look at us and think "well at least it's not as bad as last time'

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Let's remember that the£1.7m was not 'dreamt up' but  was calculated from a plausible leak. But it is true enough that the fat lady isn't singing yet and we still don't know the size of any consultancy fees paid in 2018.

We do know that the BN still hasn't published how much Dean Holdsworth cost the club or profited from it. Neither has the BN noticed that 90% of the £525K in 2017 was spent on securing Holdsworth's shares and staving off Blumarble both of which were essential to progressing any possible deal with new owners.

It has gone on too long for sure but I do wonder whether the activities of the BN and others only strengthened KA's resolve to walk off with as much as he could get.

Interesting statement there Chris.

90% of the money used to by Holdsworth's shares.

Right, I'm no expert from on such matters, so I ask this genuinely: at the time ken wasn't the sole owner, so can be legally take money out of the club to buy himself the sole ownership?

Sure once he fully owns it, I would assume he has a free reign within reason.

[Chris Custodiet]

14 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Interesting statement there Chris.

90% of the money used to by Holdsworth's shares.

Right, I'm no expert from on such matters, so I ask this genuinely: at the time ken wasn't the sole owner, so can be legally take money out of the club to buy himself the sole ownership?

Sure once he fully owns it, I would assume he has a free reign within reason.

The answer is that an owner  or director can, subject to some restrictions and the agreement of other directors, borrow money from a company for their own ends just like Dale Vince does with Ecotricity.

At some stage it needs to be paid back. Vince did it by getting the company to buy back its own shares from him. I suspect KA did it by voting himself a consultancy fee after, or as part of, negotiating full control.

There are significant differences though:

In Vince's case the figures are a lot bigger and a regular occurrence. In the Anderson case, its a one-off and there's a strong argument that the arrangements were at least as much in the best interests of the company as they were in the interest of KA.

If interested, you'll find the Anderson numbers in the 2017 accounts filed here:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09782053/filing-history

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Chris Custodiet
Re-read the question. Hadn't fully answered it previously

[Burndens Bogs]

Fuck Dale Vince, we need someone with a bit more clout. 

[Traf]

13 hours ago, gonzo said:

Plausablen

Does it all really matter as long as we haven’t gone bust and the club ends up in wealthier hands?

Might be an unpopular opinion (maybe I should put it on the other thread?), but if we stay afloat long enough to be sold on to someone who can afford to run us, then I won't give a fuck if Ken trousered £10m, never £1m.

[Chris Custodiet]

8 hours ago, Traf said:

Might be an unpopular opinion (maybe I should put it on the other thread?), but if we stay afloat long enough to be sold on to someone who can afford to run us, then I won't give a fuck if Ken trousered £10m, never £1m.

If the club were sold to someone like Sheikh Mansour it probably wouldn't make a lot of difference. As that seems unlikely, its more probable that every pound that goes to Ken is a pound less to spend on the club.

KA undertook all the responsibilty, endured all the flack and steered the club through difficult times so he's earned a payday. The rumoured deal implies he would walk away with over £2.5m (pre-tax) plus whatever consultancy fees have been taken out since 2017. Make up your own mind  whether you think that's too much or too little.

[enzo gambaro]

19 hours ago, ZicoKelly said:

Right now I don't look at us and think "well at least it's not as bad as last time'

More manageable (theoretical) outgoings must make us a more attractive proposition for prospective buyers, but aye, me neither.

When it’s shit, it’s shit, and no amount of harking back to 1987 is going to make it more palatable. 

[tyldesley_white]

7 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If the club were sold to someone like Sheikh Mansour it probably wouldn't make a lot of difference. As that seems unlikely, its more probable that every pound that goes to Ken is a pound less to spend on the club.

KA undertook all the responsibilty, endured all the flack and steered the club through difficult times so he's earned a payday. The rumoured deal implies he would walk away with over £2.5m (pre-tax) plus whatever consultancy fees have been taken out since 2017. Make up your own mind  whether you think that's too much or too little.

Fuck me you started off with 1.7 m now you are up to 2.5 m , any advance on 2.5  going once ........

[Chris Custodiet]

54 minutes ago, tyldesley_white said:

Fuck me you started off with 1.7 m now you are up to 2.5 m , any advance on 2.5  going once ........

I don't think you've quite understood this. I expect there may be a few others that haven't either.

Let me explain. If the tax on the profit is £400K it would mean the profit was £2.1m.

So to be liable for £400K tax he'd have to get £2.1m plus what he'd spent on shares 'i.e the £472K shown in the Inner Circle Investments Ltd accounts.

ICIL bought two lots of shares:

1. Holdsworth's Burnden Leisure shares for £402K

2. Other unnamed shares which were subsequently written off as worthless. In all  probabiity these were shares in SSBWFC that KA bought from Holdsworth prior to the final settlement.

 

 

[MickyD]

Condescending is a word I'm getting.

[Casino]

I'd guess he's just losing patience explaining

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I don't think you've quite understood this. I expect there may be a few others that haven't either.

Let me explain. If the tax on the profit is £400K it would mean the profit was £2.1m.

So to be liable for £400K tax he'd have to get £2.1m plus what he'd spent on shares 'i.e the £472K shown in the Inner Circle Investments Ltd accounts.

ICIL bought two lots of shares:

1. Holdsworth's Burnden Leisure shares for £402K

2. Other unnamed shares which were subsequently written off as worthless. In all  probabiity these were shares in SSBWFC that KA bought from Holdsworth prior to the final settlement.

 

 

Run it by me again, in simple words that even I might understand

Edited February 23, 2019 by boltondiver

[Dr Faustus]

Can we have example in twixes please?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Dr Faustus said:

Can we have example in twixes please?

You reduce the size, so to reduce the cost.

Then delay payments for the sugar, milk, cocoa beans and packaging.

Then reduce the level of chocolate so folk don't like them as much.

Hopefully, no one has already eaten a bit when you open it.

[Dr Faustus]

49 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You reduce the size, so to reduce the cost.

Then delay payments for the sugar, milk, cocoa beans and packaging.

Then reduce the level of chocolate so folk don't like them as much.

Hopefully, no one has already eaten a bit when you open it.

Why didn't someone just say!

[Zico]

10 hours ago, enzo gambaro said:

More manageable (theoretical) outgoings must make us a more attractive proposition for prospective buyers

Not when the majority of the outgoings is the wage bill of this squad

Unless the new owners are happy to have things tick over with this set of players, or, they have a manager in mind who might be able to do something with them

[Casino]

I don't think many have contracts beyond june

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

I don't think many have contracts beyond june

That’s probably best position to be in. Clean slate. 

[Boby Brno]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You reduce the size, so to reduce the cost.

Then delay payments for the sugar, milk, cocoa beans and packaging.

Then reduce the level of chocolate so folk don't like them as much.

Hopefully, no one has already eaten a bit when you open it.

I knew a bloke who had a donkey. He told me he was training it to live without food.

He almost did it, then it died.

 

[Chris Custodiet]

4 hours ago, boltondiver said:

Run it by me again, in simple words that even I might understand

£1.7million plus £400,000  plus £472,000 is more than £1.7million. Well it is if you don't live in Tyldesley.

[Escobarp]

6 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I don't think you've quite understood this. I expect there may be a few others that haven't either.

Let me explain. If the tax on the profit is £400K it would mean the profit was £2.1m.

So to be liable for £400K tax he'd have to get £2.1m plus what he'd spent on shares 'i.e the £472K shown in the Inner Circle Investments Ltd accounts.

ICIL bought two lots of shares:

1. Holdsworth's Burnden Leisure shares for £402K

2. Other unnamed shares which were subsequently written off as worthless. In all  probabiity these were shares in SSBWFC that KA bought from Holdsworth prior to the final settlement.

 

 

Really sorry Crawley if you’re reading this but we’ve found someone more patronising 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Escobarp
And this is bollocks maths and accounting as well

[Chris Custodiet]

8 hours ago, Escobarp said:

Really sorry Crawley if you’re reading this but we’ve found someone more patronising 

Really sorry, Escobarp, if you found the explanation patronising. You needed no explanation because you had understood it all in the first place, hadn't you?