Moderators Zico Posted June 25, 2018 Moderators Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Lets be sensible....if the options were win the group and play Colombia then Germany/Brazil or finish 2nd and play Japan then Mexico....I know where I'd rather finish. By the time we play Belgium we'll know the best route. Ultimately no route is easy but psychologically for our young team Germany in the quarters might be too much. And whilst Germany look poor we know, what happens when it comes to the crunch. it's true that that route is what most fans would prefer but every pundit (ex player) so far has said go out and win no matter what it's going to be difficult, if the manager thought the same as the fans, to get the players to think the same and go out to lose but we wont know who we play in the next round when we play our game, and only an inkling of who we might play in the quarters and the best chance of winning that will be to go into it having won 4 on the bounce and not having tried to get an easier route by losing a game, which would probably be even more psychologically damaging Edited June 25, 2018 by ZicoKelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 it's true that that route is what most fans would prefer but every pundit (ex player) so far has said go out and win no matter what it's going to be difficult, if the manager thought the same as the fans, to get the players to think the same and go out to lose but we wont know who we play in the next round when we play our game, and only an inkling of who we might play in the quarters and the best chance of winning that will be to go into it having won 4 on the bounce and not having tried to get an easier route by not losing a game, which would probably be even more psychologically damaging Damned if he does damned if he doesn't scenario . . . 'throw' the Belgium game and then lose anyway and he gets slated. win and then lose to, say, Germany and he should have done ensured second place. You'd have to agree that momentum and winning games is the best preparation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L/H White Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Serious question for anyone itk, where can i get early confirmed Line-ups before each game? There's going to be a lot of players rested in this round and i don't want to back players who aren't going to be starting. Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 it's true that that route is what most fans would prefer but every pundit (ex player) so far has said go out and win no matter what it's going to be difficult, if the manager thought the same as the fans, to get the players to think the same and go out to lose but we wont know who we play in the next round when we play our game, and only an inkling of who we might play in the quarters and the best chance of winning that will be to go into it having won 4 on the bounce and not having tried to get an easier route by losing a game, which would probably be even more psychologically damaging I think he'll make changes. Other nations are clever in these scenarios. I don't want to lose the game, but everyone would prefer to avoid a section of the draw with Germany/Brazil if they could. It isn't easy, you can't throw the game, but certainly if it is the case, conserve some energy, rest some key players. I get the whole momentum thing, but Belgium will make changes and rest some and ultimately beating them then losing to Brazil in the quarters whilst Belgium go through won't feel great. There are no guaranteed victories though its more psychological, play Germany or Brazil and the players will have that psychological monkey on their backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted June 25, 2018 Moderators Share Posted June 25, 2018 Damned if he does damned if he doesn't scenario . . . 'throw' the Belgium game and then lose anyway and he gets slated. win and then lose to, say, Germany and he should have done ensured second place. I don't think he will get criticized/damned for that, only a mentalist would think otherwise and those folk would also assuming we'd beat the other teams in our way no problem mexico are doing alright, we could yet play Columbia in the next round, they look q and we might not even get to the 1/4s the only way he's fucked is if he sends the team out to lose (IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted June 25, 2018 Moderators Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) DP Edited June 25, 2018 by ZicoKelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted June 25, 2018 Moderators Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) I think he'll make changes. Other nations are clever in these scenarios. I don't want to lose the game, but everyone would prefer to avoid a section of the draw with Germany/Brazil if they could. It isn't easy, you can't throw the game, but certainly if it is the case, conserve some energy, rest some key players. I get the whole momentum thing, but Belgium will make changes and rest some and ultimately beating them then losing to Brazil in the quarters whilst Belgium go through won't feel great. There are no guaranteed victories though its more psychological, play Germany or Brazil and the players will have that psychological monkey on their backs. aye, it's a tough one rest players, they lose momentum maybe, whilst the ones coming in will be chomping at the bit, e.g. vardy, rashford Belgium are in a no lose situation in that respect, though it'd be nice to lose 4-3 in the last minute following a great performance however it'd be equally galling to lose to Columbia in the next round and happen to see the Belgians (or whoever) beat an out of sorts German or Brazilian team "that we'd have beat no problem had we bothered to try and win the group" probably best not to worry about it and just go out and try to beat whoever from here on it Edited June 25, 2018 by ZicoKelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 rest a few, give Cahill, Dier, Vardy etc a run out entertaining draw where both teams dont really lose any momentum and we out yellow card them 3-1 and accidentally drop to 2nd in the group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 [quote name="bwfcfan5" post="1801768" timestamp="1529933288 play Germany or Brazil and the players will have that psychological monkey on their backs. If we are to have a chance, we’ll have to beat the best teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 If we are to have a chance, we’ll have to beat the best teams Yep no argument from me. And I get that Mexico or Senegal or anyone on their day could easily beat us. I guess it more a question of do you build momentum now, or hope that as you go through the knockouts you build momentum with a young team. I feel that it would be gutting to see Belgium get to the semis in a relatively easier (not easy) portion of the draw whilst we end up facing say Colombia then Brazil or Germany.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) i dont see how a draw or defeat against Belgium (unless it was an absolute hiding) would affect the confidence / momentum the group is building. qualified handsomely, played some great stuff, created loads of chances and we're in the next round. if the draw does open up favorably id guess the players would be thinking "fucking bring it on" rather than worrying over the result of a dead rubber sometimes you lose, but you really win Edited June 25, 2018 by barrycowdrill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 i dont see how a draw or defeat against Belgium (unless it was an absolute hiding) would affect the confidence / momentum the group is building. qualified handsomely, played some great stuff, created loads of chances and we're in the next round. if the draw does open up favorably id guess the players would be thinking "fucking bring it on" rather than worrying over the result of a dead rubber sometimes you lose, but you really win IF they lose, then the correct response is to say we'll beat them next time, and hope that is the final. Then again, that applies to both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 IF they lose, then the correct response is to say we'll beat them next time, and hope that is the final. Then again, that applies to both sides. Of course and i think the squad would be pretty confident no matter who they play however i do think a potential easier route would give them greater belief to go with that confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjhb Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Martinez has already said he is playing a B team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Martinez has already said he is playing a B team Yes, minimum 6 changes possibly 10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I don't think he will get criticized/damned for that, only a mentalist would think otherwise and those folk would also assuming we'd beat the other teams in our way no problem mexico are doing alright, we could yet play Columbia in the next round, they look q and we might not even get to the 1/4s the only way he's fucked is if he sends the team out to lose (IMO) You're probably right but you know how the press are . . . I think we try and win but if second spot looks decent he could possibly rest a few more? Agree that Mexico, Columbia etc could give us a tougher test than many think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Mexico my arse Pub team 4-0 Job It’s coming home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adlington Trotter Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 changes maximum from us, go all out to win the game. Tournaments are all about building momentum, and that is starting to happen with us. A defeat against these lot would set that back. I remember the last Euros after we beat Wales, we should have built on that by putting a strong team out against Slovakia. We didn't, the game was dire and we lost the momentum from the Wales match. On a separate note, does anyone know anywhere with a decent outside screen showing the game Chorley/Adlington/Horwich way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted June 27, 2018 Moderators Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 changes maximum from us, go all out to win the game. Tournaments are all about building momentum, and that is starting to happen with us. A defeat against these lot would set that back. I remember the last Euros after we beat Wales, we should have built on that by putting a strong team out against Slovakia. We didn't, the game was dire and we lost the momentum from the Wales match. agree, also, Wales won their next group games, got momentum, got to the semis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyStardust Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 So Far: Top Half of the draw: Uruaguay, Portugal, France, Argentina Bottom Half: Spain, Russia, Croatia, Denmark As it stands, Brazil & germany would be top half, Switzerland & Mexico in the bottom half. Winner of our group is top half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 changes maximum from us, go all out to win the game. Tournaments are all about building momentum, and that is starting to happen with us. A defeat against these lot would set that back. I remember the last Euros after we beat Wales, we should have built on that by putting a strong team out against Slovakia. We didn't, the game was dire and we lost the momentum from the Wales match. On a separate note, does anyone know anywhere with a decent outside screen showing the game Chorley/Adlington/Horwich way? Top barn up Rivington did something for the Panama game that looked decent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burndens Bogs Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Rivi barn is only for England games played at the weekend i’m told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didledee Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 WIN WIN this, if we win great, if it's a draw late on, perhaps we might see some cheeky yellow cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adlington Trotter Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Rivi barn is only for England games played at the weekend i’m told. Aye, the barn isn't showing it tommorow. Only open on Sundays. Edited June 27, 2018 by Adlington Trotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 When is the footie on at Rivi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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