Take Over

[mickbrown]

Bury lads mustn’t have mortgages or families to feed. 

[Tommy Banks]

What’s the point of setting deadlines if they’re not adhered to

[Sluffy]

3 hours ago, Casino said:

Remember Howard saying that his boys wouldn't buy from Ken

Ken needs an interested party, to stop moonshift recalling the shares

If bassini falls away, then, for me, it's admin and Michael James and others, do a deal

To be honest something doesn't fit right to me about such a scenario.

Taking Howard at his word, he seemed to indicate that the 14 notice period was enacted - but delayed a further week or so - because the notice was sent to the wrong address.

Quite clearly the notice could have clearly been correctly served and the notice period spent long before now if that was what was truly intended.

The 'distraction' which Bassini is/has been, would simply have been 'trumped' by claiming full ownership of the club (well 94.5% of it) - and Mr B sent packing with his Metro Bank £1m tweet message in hand.

So I don't see why Howards boys would have sat back and let the Bassini panto play out if that really was their intent?

I could however see them sitting back and waiting for whatever Team Bassini is playing, to play out IF they thought Ken would fight the legitimacy of their takeover of the shares.  Presumably they would wait until Ken approached them and agreed to waive all his rights and sign a deal to sell the club to them - presuming that they were still interested financially - which may no longer be the case?

I've written elsewhere of my opinion of seeking liquidation, and until someone can clarify my questions that surround that matter, I must discount that as an option for Ken to proceed with.

That's not to say a court might order liquidation - but I don't believe Ken will do such a thing without clear title to the ownership shares, which I don't believe he has with a lien on them still outstanding.

The obvious lead to follow with Bassini is Matt Southall - he's here for a reason.

He seems to be linked to 'tyre kickers' who in turn may be linked to the likes of Michael James, Football Ventures, and others?

I'm not sure what his role is and who he really represents but I feel if we did we'd have a much better picture of what is really going on and why.

 

A deeper question is why anyone wants to buy us at all?

We aren't going to be playing in the Premier League in the next 13 years, let alone three and if we do fall into Admin - and with consequences of not completing our remaining games yet - surely the right thing to do is for the players to call off their strike and get them played - they've made their point - they're not going to be paid any sooner no matter what (and professional footballers are in the envious position of knowing they will ultimately be paid in full - and I'm sure their mortgage lenders and the fancy car salesmen know full well they can allow them a missed payment or two until they are) then the least they can do is to stand on the pitch for the remaining 3 hours of the season in gratitude at earning a small fortune this season for what many of us would have done for free.  Do they really want to fuck our immediate future up for not completing the remaining two fixtures whilst the vast majority of them will be riding off into the sunset, away from the club and us for good, anyway?

So why fund a pot less club, unlikely to be greatly competitive for the next season or two, probably hit with a minimum 12 point penalty (maybe more) just for the fun of it?

Why throw away their children's inheritance in a financially tin pot club like us?

The reality must be that there is some profit to be made - probably by selling/developing some of the land the club owns.

I guess that's why Ken is clinging on for a deal, Bassini is playing some sort of a game that nobody can follow, Mr Matt looking at the numbers and feeding them back to whoever it is will be ultimately take on ownership by one means or another?

A final thought from me - if we do go into Admin and come out of it immediately I would assume that the ST would be the body at least as the notional figurehead of being the new owner - on the basis that the ST has a set number of weeks (three iirc) to buy the club before anyone else - and so must be part of the deal if that three weeks isn't required.

Just for fun - as at June 2018, they had 3,006 members (of only 75 joined in the last twelve months period), had total assets of just over £51,000 (having made a net loss of around £9,500) on the year, stated that they had only five elected Directors Rigby (Chair), Tetlow (Treasurer), Smith, Brown and Nightingale and one co-opted Director being Roger Allanson.

The independent auditor signing off the accounts was Mike Eagan (who is shown on the ST's web site) as being a current Director.

There is no mention of Ian Bridge despite Mr Rigby stating after the ST's last election that he had been co-opted as a Director.

https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/SocietyDetails.aspx?Number=7270&Suffix=CBS

Doesn't fill you with confidence really does it?

PS Mr Allanson opened a new company this month called - would you believe - Dolittle and Dally.

Honestly it's true -

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11940623

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Sluffy
grammar errors

[blackleywhite]

Fucking hell that's a five swiper. I'm impressed. 

 

[Duck Egg]

I stopped reading at

'taking Howard at his word'

I now understand how seemingly intelligent folk end up giving their cash away to Nigerian royalty

[birch-chorley]

Howard’s lot fucked off because the debt was much higher than anticipated didn’t they?

Nothing to do with the share recall 

Thats where the whole ‘Ken siphoned off some of the revenue and the club factored against it’ came from 

[Ratwhite]

9 hours ago, Blondi said:

Leigh Sports Village should have low overheads.

That's where Horwich RMI/Leigh Genesis when tits up. 

Perfect...

[LeggyMountbatten]

Selling the ground and any associated land we still own to replace it with a smaller, functional stadium with lower overheads in Bolton TC would work for me. 

[hughmungus]

27 minutes ago, LeggyMountbatten said:

Selling the ground and any associated land we still own to replace it with a smaller, functional stadium with lower overheads in Bolton TC would work for me. 

Which is likely to cost what ?, at least another £30-50 million so lets not do this again.

[Traf]

Wouldn't get planning permission anyway.

[Dr Faustus]

8 hours ago, blackleywhite said:

Fucking hell that's a five swiper. I'm impressed. 

 

I tend to reserve Sluffy’s posts for the throne. If I’ve completed one, it’s usually time to head back

[Okocha10]

Still to this day I'm unsure if we should of ever moved to the Reebok from Burnden & just developed the stadium a bit more.

In hindsight at first Reebok was the dog bollocks, led us to my favourite memories, but how much of that money we could do with now. Though Davies & Gartisde would of probably pissed away that money as well.

[Dr Faustus]

8 minutes ago, Okocha10 said:

Still to this day I'm unsure if we should of ever moved to the Reebok from Burnden & just developed the stadium a bit more.

In hindsight at first Reebok was the dog bollocks, led us to my favourite memories, but how much of that money we could do with now. Though Davies & Gartisde would of probably pissed away that money as well.

I’m not sure development was much of an option pal. It couldn’t get much bigger and it was fairly dilapidated.

[mickbrown]

Some proper rosey specs concerning Burnden. 

It was falling to pieces with a supermarket in one end. 

No way could that place have been redeveloped 

[Okocha10]

You would of thought the same though with Turff Moor with Burnley somehow that stadium is still going to this day. Town centre has had knock on effect due to us moving to I feel, all the major shops moving to Middlebrook. Don't think we need the stadium to be any bigger with average crowds we get.

[Dr Faustus]

We did though; given that all seater stadia was a must, Burnden’s capacity would’ve plummeted.

 

Now, Leverhulme Park... 😊

[bwfcfan5]

20 minutes ago, Okocha10 said:

Still to this day I'm unsure if we should of ever moved to the Reebok from Burnden & just developed the stadium a bit more.

In hindsight at first Reebok was the dog bollocks, led us to my favourite memories, but how much of that money we could do with now. Though Davies & Gartisde would of probably pissed away that money as well.

Re-developing Burnden was not an option. 

The issue is not where the stadium is or its size or anything else. Its the fact that the Burnden Leisure business cannot be supported by the size of the football club anymore. And that business loses money. And Bolton as a large town only manages to attract a tiny percentage of its population as fans - especially when the chips are down. 

Its time the assets that aren't football related were sold off - or potentially run by someone very savvy who is able to turn them into profit making operations, and the core football business scaled back to what the town is prepared/able to support (again unless there is a rich benefactor in play) - and that probably means mid table league one hoofball with a manager trying to get the best out of an incredibly limited cheap group of players. Because that is honestly where the club is right now.

If we have a savvy owner and a good manager in  time we might progress. But we've spent too long chasing unlikely salvation. It takes years and years to sort a sustainable youth setup that contributes to the first team at required quality. It probably means spending time funding that over and above the first team. Which means a few seasons of ugly lower league grind at best. 

Reality has to kick in at some point. I would have though it might have kicked in a few years back, but seemingly not. 

[waffer cup 07]

Because you live where?🤔

[Burndens Bogs]

Our stadium was a billy bargain, i wonder what it would cost to build a similar stadium now?

I know it's a whole different ball game,but Spurs new stadium cost £850 Million

[Take Hunt Off]

19 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Some proper rosey specs concerning Burnden. 

It was falling to pieces with a supermarket in one end. 

No way could that place have been redeveloped 

Plus built on a rubbish tip with a significant subsidance problem 

Remember that large hole opening up in the Lever End penalty area ? not to mention the manny road stanchion foundations.

[Okocha10]

@bwfcfan5 Much agree with you have said, hopefully we get the chance to re-build again & build on youth setup which will help us be more sustainable in the future.

[Duck Egg]

Is Holy Harbour still standing in Halliwell? 

I don't see why any of the above means we have to adopt league 1 hoof ball. Can't we strip right back and do a Crewe academy type thing minus all the noncery 

[Roger_Dubuis]

1 hour ago, Okocha10 said:

Still to this day I'm unsure if we should of ever moved to the Reebok from Burnden & just developed the stadium a bit more.

In hindsight at first Reebok was the dog bollocks, led us to my favourite memories, but how much of that money we could do with now. Though Davies & Gartisde would of probably pissed away that money as well.

I agree, there was plenty space behind the Embankment, Manchester Road stand and Burnden side to build bigger stands if the desire was there.My favourite Bolton memories were from the Sam era rather than the Greaves or Rioch eras but i think that could have been achieved at Burnden.I think Djorkaeff and Okocha were attracted  to  Sam Allardyce's plans for the team and the wage packet rather than the nice stadium.The wage packet came from the extra Sky money not because of  extra revenue from playing in a different ground.

[Chris Custodiet]

12 hours ago, Sluffy said:

To be honest something doesn't fit right to me about such a scenario.

Taking Howard at his word, he seemed to indicate that the 14 notice period was enacted - but delayed a further week or so - because the notice was sent to the wrong address.

Quite clearly the notice could have clearly been correctly served and the notice period spent long before now if that was what was truly intended.

The 'distraction' which Bassini is/has been, would simply have been 'trumped' by claiming full ownership of the club (well 94.5% of it) - and Mr B sent packing with his Metro Bank £1m tweet message in hand.

So I don't see why Howards boys would have sat back and let the Bassini panto play out if that really was their intent?

I could however see them sitting back and waiting for whatever Team Bassini is playing, to play out IF they thought Ken would fight the legitimacy of their takeover of the shares.  Presumably they would wait until Ken approached them and agreed to waive all his rights and sign a deal to sell the club to them - presuming that they were still interested financially - which may no longer be the case?

I've written elsewhere of my opinion of seeking liquidation, and until someone can clarify my questions that surround that matter, I must discount that as an option for Ken to proceed with.

That's not to say a court might order liquidation - but I don't believe Ken will do such a thing without clear title to the ownership shares, which I don't believe he has with a lien on them still outstanding.

The obvious lead to follow with Bassini is Matt Southall - he's here for a reason.

He seems to be linked to 'tyre kickers' who in turn may be linked to the likes of Michael James, Football Ventures, and others?

I'm not sure what his role is and who he really represents but I feel if we did we'd have a much better picture of what is really going on and why.

 

A deeper question is why anyone wants to buy us at all?

We aren't going to be playing in the Premier League in the next 13 years, let alone three and if we do fall into Admin - and with consequences of not completing our remaining games yet - surely the right thing to do is for the players to call off their strike and get them played - they've made their point - they're not going to be paid any sooner no matter what (and professional footballers are in the envious position of knowing they will ultimately be paid in full - and I'm sure their mortgage lenders and the fancy car salesmen know full well they can allow them a missed payment or two until they are) then the least they can do is to stand on the pitch for the remaining 3 hours of the season in gratitude at earning a small fortune this season for what many of us would have done for free.  Do they really want to fuck our immediate future up for not completing the remaining two fixtures whilst the vast majority of them will be riding off into the sunset, away from the club and us for good, anyway?

So why fund a pot less club, unlikely to be greatly competitive for the next season or two, probably hit with a minimum 12 point penalty (maybe more) just for the fun of it?

Why throw away their children's inheritance in a financially tin pot club like us?

The reality must be that there is some profit to be made - probably by selling/developing some of the land the club owns.

I guess that's why Ken is clinging on for a deal, Bassini is playing some sort of a game that nobody can follow, Mr Matt looking at the numbers and feeding them back to whoever it is will be ultimately take on ownership by one means or another?

A final thought from me - if we do go into Admin and come out of it immediately I would assume that the ST would be the body at least as the notional figurehead of being the new owner - on the basis that the ST has a set number of weeks (three iirc) to buy the club before anyone else - and so must be part of the deal if that three weeks isn't required.

Just for fun - as at June 2018, they had 3,006 members (of only 75 joined in the last twelve months period), had total assets of just over £51,000 (having made a net loss of around £9,500) on the year, stated that they had only five elected Directors Rigby (Chair), Tetlow (Treasurer), Smith, Brown and Nightingale and one co-opted Director being Roger Allanson.

The independent auditor signing off the accounts was Mike Eagan (who is shown on the ST's web site) as being a current Director.

There is no mention of Ian Bridge despite Mr Rigby stating after the ST's last election that he had been co-opted as a Director.

https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/SocietyDetails.aspx?Number=7270&Suffix=CBS

Doesn't fill you with confidence really does it?

PS Mr Allanson opened a new company this month called - would you believe - Dolittle and Dally.

Honestly it's true -

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11940623

 

Well done, Sluffy. Good of you to share with us members of the ST, accounts the ST hasn't bothered to share with us. Maybe they think we should all be scouring t'internet to see what we can turn up.

Its a few years since I signed off accounts as an 'Independent Examiner' but I was always under the impression that, if the funds carried forward at the end of the previous year didn't equal the funds brought forward at the beginning of the new one, there must be something not quite right.

Wasn't Ken saying summat about the ST's governance being nowt to write home about

Edited May 1, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[bwfcfan5]

8 minutes ago, Okocha10 said:

@bwfcfan5 Much agree with you have said, hopefully we get the chance to re-build again & build on youth setup which will help us be more sustainable in the future.

I think people need to understand the reality of that. It means worse players in the first team than we currently have. It probably means sticking with the current management setup unless they can be released at zero cost and cheap experienced replacements be found.

The reality of where we are as a club doesn't seem to have hit most of our fans judging by twitter. The youth setup is still working as a side project. To turn that into the production line of players will not be a quick job and likely will need a lot of changes over time and then years to bed in. But I'm not sure what choice we have. If we can in say 10 years get to the point of producing 3 first team players a year and every 5 years one who is good enough to sell at a sum large enough to fund the youth operation for another 5 then we might be close to being self sustainable. It will take a lot of tough management choices. And unfortunately required a huge amount of understanding and patience from the fan base. But if we get there then the club will probably be ripe for someone with cash to come in and propel us onwards. Without getting there we are always hoping that someone with money fancies a short term project but the underlying problem does not go away. We've spent the past decade or more gambling on being in the premiership or getting back to it. The gamble has failed and we have to realise what we are now.