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Wanderers Ways. Neil Thompson 1961-2021

Take Over


Kane57

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I think you must be all reading something different to me as nowhere does it state that £25 million is the buying price.

It says that "Proof of funds amounting to not less than £25million" is one of the "several stipulations which have to be met before any access to financial information pertaining to the sale can be disclosed".

Once those stipulations are satisfied, then that will allow them to be part of the "process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club."

So once those have been satisfied, then the offers could be... who knows?

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35 minutes ago, flourbag said:

I think you must be all reading something different to me as nowhere does it state that £25 million is the buying price.

It says that "Proof of funds amounting to not less than £25million" is one of the "several stipulations which have to be met before any access to financial information pertaining to the sale can be disclosed".

Once those stipulations are satisfied, then that will allow them to be part of the "process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club."

So once those have been satisfied, then the offers could be... who knows?

You are right the £25m is not the buying price - as I noted in my last post - but it is indicative as to the actual value of the club (less whatever it is the EFL is looking for to fund the clubs expected shortfall on trading over the next two years).

There might be a bidding war but even then I doubt the final purchase price will exceed the companies assets to any significant amount unless the purchaser knows something of value in the purchases that the rest of us are unaware of.

I also at this stage don't see anything preventing the club and the hotel to be ultimately purchased separately, although the Administrators are clearly signalling they would prefer one purchaser to own both.  Maybe there is something preventing such happening in the small print perhaps?

Also worth noting is that the £25m quoted is in theory to buy and run the club and not to reorganise it (say sack the manager and associated costs) or strengthening the team (transfer war chest of millions - or perhaps not?).  I guess these costs will also need to be factored in by whoever ends up buying us.

Edited by Sluffy
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The administrators have presumably a) found out what the real debt level is b) told the creditors that they aren't going to get all their money back especially if the club goes tits up and c) advised them what they can reasonably expect if they can agree a percentage that wouldn't preclude a sale.

Sounds like they've worked quickly to arrive at a compromise position that has been accepted by the creditors which is good news. Doesn't in any way guarantee a sale but the position i.e. cost is the best they have been able to come up with.

Sluffy - you know I've been telling you it would come to this for the best part of two years, but I'm past caring now, however to intimate that the figure is what Anderson came up with in his valuation and by implication that somehow he was right all along is low even for you. Please stop reaching for justifications for what has been - as I've suspected and suggested all along - a period of gross mismanagement. And stop quoting me on "the truth will come out eventually" which I was forced to use every time you were lecturing me on what an outstanding job Anderson was doing especially as even now it's clear to everyone he's lost money hand over fist and possibly done much worse. Surely now you agree with my original hypotheses at least to some extent?

Or are you still saying (quote) "Mr Anderson hasn't let us down yet" and the classic:

"Beaten Holdsworth - check

Beaten HMRC - check

Beaten ST - check

What else is there for him to take on?"

No doubt if the Chinese buy us out of admin you'll still be saying he's done a great job despite us being relegated with a yet to be determined points deduction, the staff not getting paid and the club's assets having been decimated during his tenure.

Jaysus.

 

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6 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

Just setting aside the cost of the club am surprised no one has mentioned this 

Surely the most interesting comment is the below  figure in the press release 

Mr Appleton said: "There has been substantial interest from the moment of our appointment on May 13. Over 30 parties have approached us and we will now begin the process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club.

So  I will start 

( 1) Football Ventures ( AKA Basran ) 

(2)  Gaspard 

(3) Chinese Mob 

(4) Stelios and the Greeks 

(5) American consortium based in Boston

(6 ) Bassini 

( 7 ) A German Consortium 

(8) Cheshire group based in Knutsford 

(9 ) Supporters Trust 

(10 ) Howards mob 

(11 ) Another far eastern Group 

Right that's me done - thats all the rumours I have heard so who do we think the other 19 are ? 

 

 

 

dont forget that crazy wwe boss guy vince

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Sluffy said:

The clubs in Administration. 

In order to get out of Administration it has to comply with EFL regulations.

That means they have to come to an agreement with their creditors (which I've tried to summarise above but failed miserably).

All footballing debts have to be cleared - that's about £3m, I assume any winders (and anyone who piggy backs on to them) needs to be cleared in full too - that's at least £1.2 to HMRC and £800k to Macron, so lets say that's another £2m.

I guess though that after paying those that if the other creditors both secured and unsecured are in agreement AND proof of funding is produced to show there is monies available to do that - then the club could still exit Admin - as a going concern - but still be in debt.

I would imagine though that most would be seeking their money though or asking for more than the minimum 25p in the £ from the unsecured creditors to agree to that though?

Either way the purchaser has to prove he's got the money to settle the debts now even if everybody agrees to defer settlement to later.

 

I also note that Iles is sticking to his guns that funding for the next two years is included in the £25m proof of funds.

Maybe Davies isn't a secured creditor, leaving James £5.5, KA £5m and Warburton £2.5m as the only significant ones - total £13m, around say £4m as unsecured and £3m football creditors, leaving around just £5m to fund two seasons short fall (losses) (and proving that they exist rather than as paying it to the Administrators as part of the purchase price? 

So £13m + £4m +  £3m + £5m = £25m.

Don't know really, just trying to make the sums add up?

What about the administrators fee? - he will be first to be paid

Unless theres a shed load of cash still in the clubs accounts

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Like @Benny The Ball said 30 interested parties is the key... looks like everyone has come back to the table now they don’t have to deal with KA.

£25m proof of funds - if you want the hotel as well doesn’t seem that much given it’s also proving you can run a club for 2 seasons... may not be enough to scare off the Bassini’s of the world. 

Also so seems like the administrators aren’t hanging around... didn’t expect anything like this for another week or so

 

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7 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

Just setting aside the cost of the club am surprised no one has mentioned this 

Surely the most interesting comment is the below  figure in the press release 

Mr Appleton said: "There has been substantial interest from the moment of our appointment on May 13. Over 30 parties have approached us and we will now begin the process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club.

So  I will start 

( 1) Football Ventures ( AKA Basran ) 

(2)  Gaspard 

(3) Chinese Mob 

(4) Stelios and the Greeks 

(5) American consortium based in Boston

(6 ) Bassini 

( 7 ) A German Consortium 

(8) Cheshire group based in Knutsford 

(9 ) Supporters Trust 

(10 ) Howards mob 

(11 ) Another far eastern Group 

Right that's me done - thats all the rumours I have heard so who do we think the other 19 are ? 

 

 

 

 

Shania Twain

Beckham

G Nev

Although I think the last 2 are ridiculous to be honest

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8 hours ago, Sluffy said:

The clubs in Administration. 

In order to get out of Administration it has to comply with EFL regulations.

That means they have to come to an agreement with their creditors (which I've tried to summarise above but failed miserably).

All footballing debts have to be cleared - that's about £3m, I assume any winders (and anyone who piggy backs on to them) needs to be cleared in full too - that's at least £1.2 to HMRC and £800k to Macron, so lets say that's another £2m.

I guess though that after paying those that if the other creditors both secured and unsecured are in agreement AND proof of funding is produced to show there is monies available to do that - then the club could still exit Admin - as a going concern - but still be in debt.

I would imagine though that most would be seeking their money though or asking for more than the minimum 25p in the £ from the unsecured creditors to agree to that though?

Either way the purchaser has to prove he's got the money to settle the debts now even if everybody agrees to defer settlement to later.

 

I also note that Iles is sticking to his guns that funding for the next two years is included in the £25m proof of funds.

Maybe Davies isn't a secured creditor, leaving James £5.5, KA £5m and Warburton £2.5m as the only significant ones - total £13m, around say £4m as unsecured and £3m football creditors, leaving around just £5m to fund two seasons short fall (losses) (and proving that they exist rather than as paying it to the Administrators as part of the purchase price? 

So £13m + £4m +  £3m + £5m = £25m.

Don't know really, just trying to make the sums add up?

 
One route I would be expecting the administrator to go down is with respect to the Brownfield site that the club owns at British Aerospace that adjoins the academy, its a plot of 4 or 5 acres. 
 
Housebuilders will be forming a queue to buy it and its worth up to £5 million 
 
By selling it separately - and realising £5 million he can pay Brett Warburton off , who has the charge on the land ( £2 million ) and leave substantial monies to cover his fees and put cash into the kitty towards paying off the creditors. 
 
It serves no purpose for the club going forward, its not used , and the club will not be impacted by its sale . 
 
In fact were it to be included as an asset within the sale of the football club I would expect any purchaser to do this , so it will most likely be sold separately and excluded from the assets of the football club 
 
I might be wrong - but it seems the obvious thing to do , and remember his job ( as administrator ) is to realise the best value for creditors .and this is an easy win situation for him and helps in a small way to get the sums to add up 
 
 
 
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37 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:
 
One route I would be expecting the administrator to go down is with respect to the Brownfield site that the club owns at British Aerospace that adjoins the academy, its a plot of 4 or 5 acres. 
 
Housebuilders will be forming a queue to buy it and its worth up to £5 million 
 
By selling it separately - and realising £5 million he can pay Brett Warburton off , who has the charge on the land ( £2 million ) and leave substantial monies to cover his fees and put cash into the kitty towards paying off the creditors. 
 
It serves no purpose for the club going forward, its not used , and the club will not be impacted by its sale . 
 
In fact were it to be included as an asset within the sale of the football club I would expect any purchaser to do this , so it will most likely be sold separately and excluded from the assets of the football club 
 
I might be wrong - but it seems the obvious thing to do , and remember his job ( as administrator ) is to realise the best value for creditors .and this is an easy win situation for him and helps in a small way to get the sums to add up 
 
 
 

At the pace they are moving is there time to do that? 

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1 hour ago, Benny The Ball said:
 
One route I would be expecting the administrator to go down is with respect to the Brownfield site that the club owns at British Aerospace that adjoins the academy, its a plot of 4 or 5 acres. 
 
Housebuilders will be forming a queue to buy it and its worth up to £5 million 
 
By selling it separately - and realising £5 million he can pay Brett Warburton off , who has the charge on the land ( £2 million ) and leave substantial monies to cover his fees and put cash into the kitty towards paying off the creditors. 
 
It serves no purpose for the club going forward, its not used , and the club will not be impacted by its sale . 
 
In fact were it to be included as an asset within the sale of the football club I would expect any purchaser to do this , so it will most likely be sold separately and excluded from the assets of the football club 
 
I might be wrong - but it seems the obvious thing to do , and remember his job ( as administrator ) is to realise the best value for creditors .and this is an easy win situation for him and helps in a small way to get the sums to add up 
 
 
 

If there was an easy £5 million to be made selling land the club didn't need wouldn't Eddie or Ken already have done that?

 

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9 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

Just setting aside the cost of the club am surprised no one has mentioned this 

Surely the most interesting comment is the below  figure in the press release 

Mr Appleton said: "There has been substantial interest from the moment of our appointment on May 13. Over 30 parties have approached us and we will now begin the process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club.

So  I will start 

( 1) Football Ventures ( AKA Basran ) 

(2)  Gaspard 

(3) Chinese Mob 

(4) Stelios and the Greeks 

(5) American consortium based in Boston

(6 ) Bassini 

( 7 ) A German Consortium 

(8) Cheshire group based in Knutsford 

(9 ) Supporters Trust 

(10 ) Howards mob 

(11 ) Another far eastern Group 

Right that's me done - thats all the rumours I have heard so who do we think the other 19 are ? 

 

 

 

 

12) The gravy on fish consortium (currently under investigation for culinary crimes)

13) The Peoples front of pea wet and ,crispy bits (Doubts as to their funding mode)

14) Pot Parkinson incorporated (possible single issue protest group)

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24 minutes ago, Gaz Nt said:

Where's Howard gone?

Who cares?  Inboxing decent folk accusing that they are 'wife beaters' as well as other wild wide of the mark guesses makes his/her messages null and void in my eyes, theres banter and theres over stepping the line.  The facts are here now, 30 interested parties makes me feel a warm smug glow inside, bollocks to him/her.

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51 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

If there was an easy £5 million to be made selling land the club didn't need wouldn't Eddie or Ken already have done that?

 

Is a good question - dont have an answer , all I can say is that recently a lot of house building has gone on in the area - for example on the site of the Old British Aerospace Cricket Pitch - therefore as ex industrial land it  might have only recently been deemed suitable for housing by the council - which ups the value 

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3 hours ago, Ani said:

Was n’t there a group of yanks with links to Stuart Holden mentioned at one point ? 

There were two lots of Americans who allegedly expressed an interest. The first was Pittsburgh Penguins owner Ron Burkle who I heard tried to buy the club last year but found out that Anderson's figures were a work of fiction and he had issues with Anderson's demands and behaviour allegedly.

More recently there was that bloke Zigi whose surname I can't remember.

Pretty sure they've both moved on a while back.

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19 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said:

More recently there was that bloke Zigi whose surname I can't remember.

Stardust?

 

Edit* Just seen ive been beaten to it but don't know how to delete

Edited by Walshyt
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2 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

Is a good question - dont have an answer , all I can say is that recently a lot of house building has gone on in the area - for example on the site of the Old British Aerospace Cricket Pitch - therefore as ex industrial land it  might have only recently been deemed suitable for housing by the council - which ups the value 

Could it be some of the creditors have a charge against land as security so selling it would pay that debt rather than into Ken’s pocket ? 

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3 minutes ago, Kane57 said:

Neither. They have a responsibility to go for the bid they consider in the club's best interests. 

Not true. They also have to represent creditor interests. Its a balance between keeping business alive and maximising return for creditors. Very hard for them not to take the best financial offer. Probably impossible (assuming that offer also satisfies EFL rules etc). 

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Can anyone clarify the three weeks/21 days thing. Is it 21 days for the Supporters Trust to sort out their bid? In which case they’ve already had 10 days since the administrators were appointed on 13 May.

Or is it 21 days that the club has to be on the market? In which case that started yesterday/today?

Or is it both?

Sorry, I’m sure it’s been explained before but I’m a bit confused about this.

Also, hypothetically - say the sale price is too much for any bidder, could we exit administration by someone paying less than 25p in the pound to unsecured creditors and/or less than 100% to secured creditors, but take a further points deduction to “justify” it, or if we can’t fulfill those requirements would we just be liquidated?

Edited by Mantra
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