Take Over

[Okocha10]

Spoke to Big Sam the other week in a restaurant in Bury (Ramsbottom) about this Chinese Link, he said can’t comment on it yet. Don’t know what to take from that 

[DazBob]

1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Not sure what you are expecting any new owner to see. They will see the books and accounts up to date from the administrators. They won't see a forensic accounting breakdown and were there any illegality found that is the duty of the administrator to report. 

It is quite clear that there is no illegality. The club just doesn't make enough money to sustain itself. Ken no doubt took what he could out in fees and was a bad owner. But the conspiracy theories about owners stealing money are tiresome. You only need look at the accounts to see we've been in the red for a decade. Ken didn't manage to turn that round and paid himself fairly well whilst not investing anything. Bad owner. But keep it in perspective. 

Nonsense, he stole money from the club and bought two restaurants in London with his swag. Shortland said so.

[Gaz Nt]

10 minutes ago, Okocha10 said:

Spoke to Big Sam the other week in a restaurant in Bury (Ramsbottom) about this Chinese Link, he said can’t comment on it yet. Don’t know what to take from that 

 

Harth?

[Zico]

7 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Nonsense, he stole money from the club and bought two restaurants in London with his swag. Shortland said so.

am fairly certain he did nothing illegal, he's been doing this sort of thing for years - he knows all the tricks no doubt

but I reckon you can be confident that when he was not paying the staff, the players, the tax bill, heathcotes, macron, the police, the council etc there was always enough in the bank to make sure his expenses and fees were covered, and that they were more than likely disproptionate in relation to the "real world"

it wouldn't be classed as stealing, exploitation is probably a better word, but it's understandable as to why people use the word stealing instead

[Okocha10]

@Gaz Nt Yepp he was in there 

[tomski]

6 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

am fairly certain he did nothing illegal, he's been doing this sort of thing for years - he knows all the tricks no doubt

but I reckon you can be confident that when he was not paying the staff, the players, the tax bill, heathcotes, macron, the police, the council etc there was always enough in the bank to make sure his expenses and fees were covered, and that they were more than likely disproptionate in relation to the "real world"

it wouldn't be classed as stealing, exploitation is probably a better word, but it's understandable as to why people use the word stealing instead

He’s a cunt. Spot on

[DazBob]

15 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

am fairly certain he did nothing illegal, he's been doing this sort of thing for years - he knows all the tricks no doubt

but I reckon you can be confident that when he was not paying the staff, the players, the tax bill, heathcotes, macron, the police, the council etc there was always enough in the bank to make sure his expenses and fees were covered, and that they were more than likely disproptionate in relation to the "real world"

it wouldn't be classed as stealing, exploitation is probably a better word, but it's understandable as to why people use the word stealing instead

I think you could be danger of of giving too much credit to some folk who I'm sure have visions of him actually stealing the money.

I do think you're spot on though, I doubt very much if he personally was affected and wouldn't have gone short.

Has he acted illegally? I doubt it. Has he acted immorally? Most definitely.

[Sweep]

16 minutes ago, DazBob said:

I think you could be danger of of giving too much credit to some folk who I'm sure have visions of him actually stealing the money.

 

like when he pocketed all the ticket money form the Little Mix concert, and him and his son got to bum them all afterwards as well I heard

[Benny The Ball]

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Not sure what you are expecting any new owner to see. They will see the books and accounts up to date from the administrators. They won't see a forensic accounting breakdown and were there any illegality found that is the duty of the administrator to report. 

It is quite clear that there is no illegality. The club just doesn't make enough money to sustain itself. Ken no doubt took what he could out in fees and was a bad owner. But the conspiracy theories about owners stealing money are tiresome. You only need look at the accounts to see we've been in the red for a decade. Ken didn't manage to turn that round and paid himself fairly well whilst not investing anything. Bad owner. But keep it in perspective. 

The administrators reports should still make interesting reading as and when he issues them over the coming months  given that the last publicly available accounts are to June 2017 and the reality is no one fully knows what has gone on since then . 

It might help us all get a better understanding as to what has actually happened

I dont know how you can say " It is quite clear there is no illegality " , because I dont think anyone has to hand at this point in time all the facts to make that call 

The good thing is that If the administrator finds anything at all - be it KA taking monies when the club was technically insolvent , or any breaches of his duties as a director ( and he was the ONLY director ) then he will report to the Insolvency Service , who will consider that report and may well investigate further and depending on the outcome that could possibly see  KA once again being banned from being a director. 

That though may be 2-3 years away 

 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

He's also got form.

How much is being banned from being a director worth?

[sleepingindian]

just heard a rumor that some woman from the government is taking over us on the 8th of june .aparently she is quiting her goverment job on the 7th. she held a top job apparently. watch this space.

 

 

 

[ProfessorWoland]

2 hours ago, Pricey said:

So to buy both the club and the hotel, a potential is looking north of 30 million +, I can see the 30 interested parties dropping quite quickly

 

Maybe one goal of the £25k fee is to accelerate that process. Whoever is left is at least serious about the process. 

[Wanderlust]

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

The trouble with morality is it applies differently in different circumstances. Which is why the law is the law and sits about morality and ethics and everything else.

Nobody for example would want the same morality applied to a struggling small business owner unable to pay their staff as they would to Sir Phillip Green. But the law cannot start to differentiate between people. Its either legal or it isn't. Cut and dried. 

The trouble with the law is that it also applies differently in different circumstances and it restricts itself to what is before the court often without considering the broader implications to determine whether or not a crime has been committed. And some laws actually protect criminals. For example - and this is a true case - a house builder used his charm to run up huge lines of credit with suppliers running into millions and at the same time offered his houses for sale at a lower price than his competitors to generate huge sales. He loaned the income to a company set up in his wife's name who in turn loaned it to a company registered at a postal address in the Cayman Islands. The Cayman Islands company then refused to repay the loan, so the wife's company was liquidated and the builder liquidated his own company in turn, so the suppliers were never paid. We all expected the builder and his wife to then retire to the Cayman Islands to collect his money, but instead he stayed in the U, set up another building company in his cousin's name and repeated the stunt. Then he retired. He sold the enormous mansion he had built in the UK - which wasn't touched because of the stupid Ltd Liability laws first though. 

He made in excess of £5 million and that was back in the 70s. Two of his suppliers went bust and the rest lost loads and in some cases had to shed staff. His subbies weren't paid either however in the eyes of the law he did nothing illegal - but you try telling that to the people he ripped off - including us via the taxman - and those who lost their livelihoods.

Whilst the courts have limited jurisdiction abroad, would it not have been possible to explore this and at least demand reasonable proof of valid reasons to lend the money to his wife and for her to lend it to a foreign company in the first place?

[JJ10]

2 hours ago, Okocha10 said:

Spoke to Big Sam the other week in a restaurant in Bury (Ramsbottom) about this Chinese Link, he said can’t comment on it yet. Don’t know what to take from that 

Well if it was complete bullshit he’d of said. The fact he can’t comment probably means there’s something in it 

[sleepingindian]

well he did say he had spoken to some partys about comming back

 

[TrickyTrotter]

Anybody know if the 17/18 accounts still have to be submitted when (or after) you are in Admin?

[rochdale white]

10 minutes ago, TrickyTrotter said:

Anybody know if the 17/18 accounts still have to be submitted when (or after) you are in Admin?

I believe not

[gonzo]

39 minutes ago, JJ10 said:

Well if it was complete bullshit he’d of said. The fact he can’t comment probably means there’s something in it 

Maybe he was wary that there was a hidden camera under his pint of wine. 

[Sluffy]

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 06:42, bwfc2003 said:

What about the administrators fee? - he will be first to be paid

Unless theres a shed load of cash still in the clubs accounts

Thanks, 

I had mentioned that previously myself and then forgot to add it into my 'sum' above and thanks also to -

@Benny The Ball with his views of possibly raising £5m separately on the brown field site.

I'm still at a loss to understand how the £25m figure was arrived at - as surely it would have been - so can only continue to guess that it is something along the lines of -

Football creditors - £3m?

Secured creditors - £10m? (Iles in his article today is suggesting ALL these people are willing to negotiate their amounts downwards) (also my total doesn't include anything for Moonshift/Fildraw?)

Unsecured creditors £3m?

Administrators Fee £1m?

Cost of running the club during Admin £2m?  (There can't be much cash flow during the close season - there may even be player 'bonuses' due at the end of June which theoretically would be 'football creditors' amounts but just lump them under the sum here for now?)

Next two seasons of covering trading losses £6m? 

Which totals £25m

(excluding for now Benny's £5m 'brownfield' as it hasn't happened yet as far as we know)

No idea though if I'm close to being right about the composition of the £25m figure potential purchasers need to show or absolutely miles off it?  

[Sluffy]

42 minutes ago, TrickyTrotter said:

Anybody know if the 17/18 accounts still have to be submitted when (or after) you are in Admin?

Yes, all annual accounts will need to be submitted until a limited company is dissolved.

No doubt the work undertaken by the Administrators will provide the basis of them for the new owner to eventually submit.

[mickbrown]

4 hours ago, Okocha10 said:

Spoke to Big Sam the other week in a restaurant in Bury (Ramsbottom) about this Chinese Link, he said can’t comment on it yet. Don’t know what to take from that 

Meant he had a massive mixed grill and a pint of blue nun to polish off first. 

[RatchetMan]

5 hours ago, Okocha10 said:

Spoke to Big Sam the other week in a restaurant in Bury (Ramsbottom) about this Chinese Link, he said can’t comment on it yet. Don’t know what to take from that 

 

You actually went up to him and randomly asked that?

[DomRepWanderer]

3 minutes ago, RatchetMan said:

 

You actually went up to him and randomly asked that?

Don't think it actually happened, he said the other week, so why not post it at the time.

[Ani]

6 hours ago, Okocha10 said:

Spoke to Big Sam the other week in a restaurant in Bury (Ramsbottom) about this Chinese Link, he said can’t comment on it yet. Don’t know what to take from that 

Were they his actual words ? 

I am guessing he said ‘fuck off and leave me alone’  

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

Meant he had a massive mixed grill and a pint of blue nun to polish off first. 

Fuck off, you meaty hero.