Tombwfc Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 24th Feb - FV agree HOTs with Ken 17th Apr - Ken agrees to sell his shares to Bassini 13th June - FV named preferred bidders. 18th June - Administators state that they're aiming to complete the following week. 29th June - FV finally agree HOTs with Administrators. It's now nigh on 18th of July, we're back to the players being on strike and the person in charge calling them twats on the website. Anyone trying to claim that everything is in hand and standard procedure for a club in our position is as mental as the guy ripping stickers off his Fiat 500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted July 17, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2019 By bizarre coincidence, I’ve been out drinking with Wycombe fans tonight. They were genuinely expecting Bolton to turn up and beat them until I explained what’s happening. the outside world simply isn’t interested. If we die, we die and no one really gives a fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tombwfc said: 24th Feb - FV agree HOTs with Ken 17th Apr - Ken agrees to sell his shares to Bassini 13th June - FV named preferred bidders. 18th June - Administators state that they're aiming to complete the following week. 29th June - FV finally agree HOTs with Administrators. It's now nigh on 18th of July, we're back to the players being on strike and the person in charge calling them twats on the website. Anyone trying to claim that everything is in hand and standard procedure for a club in our position is as mental as the guy ripping stickers off his Fiat 500. What is the standard procedure for a club in our position then? The closest example I can thank is Rangers and in their case the club was liquidated a new phoenix club formed and they were gifted a place three divisions lower than they were in (and I say gifted because any other club bar Celtic and maybe Hibs and Hearts would have been kicked even further down the league tiers). If FV don't come through then that's it - we are liquidated. Even the players won't be guaranteed their money because football creditors and payment minimums of 25p in the £ won't apply, everything is sold up, secured creditors paid first and everyone else gets what ever is left - if there is anything left - at so many pennies in the £. (I'm not sure if HMRC becomes a preferential creditor if we are no longer bound by EFL regulations any more?). The ST can then start up a phoenix club and we can play our games on Queens Park in the Bolton and District Sunday League, Division 4. It really is as stark as that if FV pull out. For those of you who think I might be being a bit over the top about this, the following is taken from the Administrators reply to the players, who clearly haven't grasped the seriousness of the situation as to why they haven't been paid - I am working within a budget to keep this club alive until a sale is completed. He's simply saying if I pay you there's no money left to keep the club going but if I don't we just might survive if FV can just pull a rabbit out of the hat. Best keep our fingers crossed that they do find a way I suggest. Edited July 18, 2019 by Sluffy Grammar errors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Spider said: By bizarre coincidence, I’ve been out drinking with Wycombe fans tonight. They were genuinely expecting Bolton to turn up and beat them until I explained what’s happening. the outside world simply isn’t interested. If we die, we die and no one really gives a fuck Obviously arm chair supporters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marple whites Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 hours ago, birch-chorley said: It’s going to mean more costs so it can’t be good Let’s say someone buys it for £15m, I assume that they would want 5% minimum, probably closer to 10% annual return, so £750k to £1.5m rent per annum. That puts our operating costs up considerably vs what they are now and we can’t afford those costs as things stand. Doesn’t seem like a plan that would last more than a season or two before the money runs out again and we are back to square 1 If we are selling the ground then we might as well go the whole hog and move somewhere much cheaper to run. Leigh sports village job, at least it would be more sustainable in League 1 I was speaking to the ex FD from Oxford United - and they rent their ground on a long lease from the owner at a rate far more than the average in that division and it is killing them. It leaves them with 2 tenths of eff all and they can't get out of it. So as a club they have little or no chance - that's why the guy left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Ratwhite Posted July 18, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2019 Its almost Ken Anderson-esque Blah blah blah factual inaccuracies 🗣 Blah blah blah sympathy 🗣 Blah blah blah urgency 🗣 Blah blah blah two weeks, (really 👀)🗣 Blah blah blah Football Ventures, Blah blah EFL, Blah Hotel🗣 Nlah blah no chance. Blah FUCKED🗣 Scorchio Good day 👤 👣 👣 👣 The End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ratwhite said: Its almost Ken Anderson-esque Blah blah blah factual inaccuracies 🗣 Blah blah blah sympathy 🗣 Blah blah blah urgency 🗣 Blah blah blah two weeks, (really 👀)🗣 Blah blah blah Football Ventures, Blah blah EFL, Blah Hotel🗣 Nlah blah no chance. Blah FUCKED🗣 Scorchio Good day 👤 👣 👣 👣 The End It’s no surprise Ken appointed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The reality of our position is probably finally hitting home. There is nobody prepared to bankroll the club with their own money - if there were they'd have bought it. Therefore anyone buying the club is looking to run it on a commercial basis. But the commercial opportunities are mainly tied up in a business undergoing a separate admin process. There is also an initial investment required to ensure we have a playing squad - it seems FV cannot afford to do that alongside paying the outstanding player wages. I fear this is only going one way and Sluffy unfortunately is on the money. Where are all the ST high net worth individuals by the way? Can they not chip in to get FV over the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: It’s no surprise Ken appointed them. No he did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: No he did not. I stand corrected. Or maybe not. http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2041574-administrators-could-be-appointed-at-bolton-wanderers-within-days Edited July 18, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 hours ago, birch-chorley said: If it was as easy as leasing the hotel to a chain to bring money in then why haven’t we been doing it ourselves rather than running it at a loss on our own? That’s what De Vere was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauldeva Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Anybody know when the TV money comes in? I can't see how we can't run a skeleton team and staff if we have TV money, gate receipts, £350k from Connell, sell Oztumer, Matthews and any one else. For fucks sake, Chester who we should have played, run a club on 2/5ths of fuck all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunnerFan Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Damocles said: That’s what De Vere was. Was a 50/50 joint venture between De Vere and the club IIRC. De Vere wanted out as part of a wider consolidation programme. My recollection is that the club ended up running it as finding a buyer proved difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Damocles said: That’s what De Vere was. Aye But it wasn’t a cash cow was it? Otherwise why did they pull out The fact is, adding £1m+ in rent each year to our overheads won’t do us any favours as we can’t operate with the current costs (apparently). If our turnover in league 1 is £8m and we need to spend 10% - 20% of that renting the ground back, we are even more fucked It’s a case of kicking the can down the road another year or two. But every time we kick it we are a little bit less attractive to potential owners who may want to spunk some money on the football side A sad state of affairs but it’s where we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I stand corrected. Or maybe not. http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2041574-administrators-could-be-appointed-at-bolton-wanderers-within-days The admin was appointed by the Eddie Davies Trust. Ken appointed Quantuma for the hotel. This has been so well established and explained in the media and on here - so many times. I find it impossible to believe you don't know this, given this is very central to the issues being experienced now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Aye But it wasn’t a cash cow was it? Otherwise why did they pull out The fact is, adding £1m+ in rent each year to our overheads won’t do us any favours as we can’t operate with the current costs (apparently). If our turnover in league 1 is £8m and we need to spend 10% - 20% of that renting the ground back, we are even more fucked It’s a case of kicking the can down the road another year or two. But every time we kick it we are a little bit less attractive to potential owners who may want to spunk some money on the football side A sad state of affairs but it’s where we are Given there are supposedly hotel chains wanting to buy it - it isn't too far fetched that FV would be keen to outsource its operation to a chain for a fee that would offset the football losses to some extent and also take the risk out of running the hotel. That wouldn't involve sale of property. I don't think selling the ground is necessarily a good idea - but it does depend who you sell it to and on what terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masi 51 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Think this is going to end badly for everyone Supporters,staff Everyone else can fuck off Liquidate keep your fucking hotel and stadium. Build your offices and shops but I for one will never set foot on middle took again ,and I won't be alone . Don't mind watching Bwfc in a stadium in Bolton town centre even if it's in the west Lancaster LGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty2094 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, masi 51 said: Think this is going to end badly for everyone Supporters,staff Everyone else can fuck off Liquidate keep your fucking hotel and stadium. Build your offices and shops but I for one will never set foot on middle took again ,and I won't be alone . Don't mind watching Bwfc in a stadium in Bolton town centre even if it's in the west Lancaster LGE Bye then To borrow a commonly used proverb, if they played in the streets, I'd support from the pavements. Whether it be Middlebrook or Premier 5s, I'll be there regardless. Yes I'm as tired of all this shite as you are but weekends without football sounds bland as fuck to me Edited July 18, 2019 by matty2094 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, pauldeva said: Anybody know when the TV money comes in? I can't see how we can't run a skeleton team and staff if we have TV money, gate receipts, £350k from Connell, sell Oztumer, Matthews and any one else. For fucks sake, Chester who we should have played, run a club on 2/5ths of fuck all. I hate to say this but pretty sure that money will be withheld. Because of our situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 20 hours ago, birch-chorley said: From what I can see, turnover £8.3m, cost of sales + admin costs £6.9m which would allow for £1.5m in wages Clearly turnover would be lower, but then again you’ve got to question why it costs us £6.9m just to open the doors when other clubs in League 1 can operate at a much lower cost I appreciate that our facilities are more extensive and as such costs will be higher but we are meant to be benefiting from the ability to hold conferences, events etc - the stadium should go someway to Washing it’s own face otherwise why bother doing anything other than just holding football matches You don't seem to have allowed for any finance costs attaching to the £25m FV are supposed to be coming up with or even the loans that are already on the books. There might be scope for cutting out more costs but costs tend to rise over a three year period and I rather doubt that the club is capable of pulling in anywhere near as much in 2019/20 as it did in 2016/17 when it was pushing for promotion with 10,000 season ticket sales and an average matchday attendance of 15,000. There will be no more Holdsworth/Anderson costs but I'd guess that these will be uncomfortably exceeded by administrators fees. I couldn't help noticing a Nottingham MP at PMQ's yesterday bemoaning the fate of NottsCounty whilst Jeremy Corbyn complained about the government spending less on enriching still further the owner of Forest Green Rovers. He didn't mention Dale Vince by name still less how Mr Vince manages to extract so much money out of Ecotricity and pay so little tax on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauldeva Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Done some digging and apparently, league one TV money is about £1.5 million. I've seen in Chesters accounts that they paid staff wages of about £750,000 in 2018. With gate money surely we can fund a League 2 team. 6 minutes ago, Ani said: I hate to say this but pretty sure that money will be withheld. Because of our situation. Edited July 18, 2019 by pauldeva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombwfc Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Sluffy said: What is the standard procedure for a club in our position then? The closest example I can thank is Rangers and in their case the club was liquidated a new phoenix club formed and they were gifted a place three divisions lower than they were in (and I say gifted because any other club bar Celtic and maybe Hibs and Hearts would have been kicked even further down the league tiers). If FV don't come through then that's it - we are liquidated. Even the players won't be guaranteed their money because football creditors and payment minimums of 25p in the £ won't apply, everything is sold up, secured creditors paid first and everyone else gets what ever is left - if there is anything left - at so many pennies in the £. (I'm not sure if HMRC becomes a preferential creditor if we are no longer bound by EFL regulations any more?). The ST can then start up a phoenix club and we can play our games on Queens Park in the Bolton and District Sunday League, Division 4. It really is as stark as that if FV pull out. For those of you who think I might be being a bit over the top about this, the following is taken from the Administrators reply to the players, who clearly haven't grasped the seriousness of the situation as to why they haven't been paid - I am working within a budget to keep this club alive until a sale is completed. He's simply saying if I pay you there's no money left to keep the club going but if I don't we just might survive if FV can just pull a rabbit out of the hat. Best keep our fingers crossed that they do find a way I suggest. Well for one, the other clubs in our position were able to fulfill fixtures despite being in administration. And fwiw I think it's been established that precedent would say we'd be very unlikely to be banished to some jumpers for goalposts level upon liquidation, although with the season being so close I'd say all bets are off. But all that is by the by. The point I was making is that there have been massive red flags about the viability of FV's takeover for months, and far from it being a case of drama queens or 'it's not like buying a packet of crisps', those concerns seem to be valid. I also don't know how we can be in a position where the takeover is/was imminent, but the preferred bidders business plan is based on owning the hotel and getting a PFA loan or the players to accept being fobbed off again, none of which look likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Biggish Dave Posted July 18, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2019 Can't believe some folk saying they wouldn't go if we sold the ground and rented it back or if Fawaz bought the hotel etc etc. Just admit you can't be arsed going any more. Stop looking for excuses - it happens. I'd rather be there with 3000 hardcore than a bunch of moaning bastards. I just hope there's a club for the 3000 of us to support. I'm sure there will be in some form or another - maybe even a league 2 team in 12 months time but I've been to the 4th before and will again if needs be. FWIW, I think many of these "you'll never see me again" are spouting hot air out of frustration. I feel their pain, we're all sick to the back teeth of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The admin was appointed by the Eddie Davies Trust. Ken appointed Quantuma for the hotel. This has been so well established and explained in the media and on here - so many times. I find it impossible to believe you don't know this, given this is very central to the issues being experienced now. Wasn’t sure if ED Trust or KA appointed, but thought it was Ken. So I stand corrected. Edited July 18, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Wasn’t sure if ED Trust or KA appointed, but thought it was Ken. So I stand corrected. If Ken had appointed the admin we'd have Quantuma handling both..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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