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Kane57

Take Over

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12 minutes ago, lowcarbon said:

Buy the club then sort out a squad of players and manager

That’s sorted it then.. 🤪

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Interesting tweet from Iles. 

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Looks like Hilco mean business and what to sell the club ASAP

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Bassini stated he had £20m, but couldn't prove it to EFL

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Bassini is full of shit, still don't get how he can even be spoken about when he failed to provide any proof to the EFL

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Posted (edited)

£25 doesn’t seem too bad 

The land alone has to be worth a decent chunk of that 

In terms of covering the ongoing losses as stated above, we only have about 4 players left don't we? Can’t see the wage bill being more than £200k a month now surely? (Inc non playing staff of course) 

Edited by birch-chorley

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I thought there was 20 million of secured debt, so I’m surprised the 25 million figure includes 14 million for 2 years running costs. 

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Just speculation on my part, but I can fathom how the Administrators arrived at £25m?

I don't know the details BUT if the secured creditors are Eddies estate (he left £10m in the club I believe?), James £5.5m, Anderson £5m, Warburton £2.5m and the bank say a notional amount then that amounts to £23m (not including the bank).

Football creditors would be players wages at £600k for March, Apr, May and June so a further £2.4m, plus Doidge's wages, another £600k, bring that to £3m.

What we know of unsecured creditors are HMRC of at least £1.2m, Macron £800k, the Town Hall £1m at least and admin staff at the club and hotel at what say £150k x four months(?) £600k, then that already totals £3.6m, and we must assume there is other unsecure creditors too?  Let's just round the figure up to £4m say, to make it as simple as we can. 

That would show us then of having -

£23m secured, £3m football creditors, and £4m unsecured, giving a total of £30m - or £5m more than the £25m stated?

Clearly I've got my sums wrong but where?

As Eddie only £5m in the club, or is it nothing at all with Administration taking his 'ownership' element of the club?

IF Eddie has nothing in the club does it mean the unsecured creditors amount to £9m and not the £4m I'm working to?

Has perhaps Ken Anderson's £5m been somehow settled/written off?

Has Eddie or one of the other secured creditors waived £5m?

 

One things for certain I think Iles has got his wires crossed somewhere if he believes the £25m includes an estimated £10m or more as reasonable estimated losses a club owner would incur on trading over a two year period for a club in the third tier - out of a £25m sale price.

In fact what do the Administrators do with this money anyway?  Put it into escrow for the next two years or something???

 

Also -

IF the unsecured creditors amounted for say the £4m I'm working to above, then the EFL rules imply they will get a minimum of 25p in the £ - so that means £1m of the purchase price will go to them.  However that doesn't mean Anderson has creamed off the other £3m and put it in his pocket though!  What it does mean the clubs had goods and services for £4m but only ends up paying those who has provided them £1m.  Think if the bottled water man had delivered loads of water for Donaldson and his mates to drink at the club for say £400, and our demon striker drank the lot, the water man will be £400 out of pocket but will eventually receive just £100 BUT Ken would not have suddenly found the other £300 to put in his back pocket.

I thought I'd best try to make this point early because I expect many will soon be screaming he's run off with all the 75p's in the £ that all the unsecured creditors have had to take a hit on.

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1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

Whoever buys it would surely be doing so with the intention of competing at that level and then above for that level of outlay albeit at that level the assets should exceed the cost I imagine so a safe investment with a clear deck 

also need to remember depending on who buys it some of our secured creditors may choose to do debt/equity swap thus reducing the initial purchase price 

most definitely not ITK just plain business sense that really 

If a madman paid 100 million, does 75 go into the club or does more get paid to the unsecured creditors

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Just now, Casino said:

If a madman paid 100 million, does 75 go into the club or does more get paid to the unsecured creditors

The unsecured creditors up to the 100% they are owed.

I guess once everybody has been settled in full then anything left over will remain in the club.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Casino said:

If a madman paid 100 million, does 75 go into the club or does more get paid to the unsecured creditors

I would doubt anyone going to pay more than the listed asking price. 

Edited by Mounts Kipper

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We will see

If there's serious interest, every chance somebody will go the extra mile to get it

The ST and their HNWs could even go beyond 25

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe even 70p

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2 hours ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

On paper yes 

but don’t tell me our crowds was accurate, Reading & boro must of been sub 10k

Nobody's crowds are accurate though. We don't know how many turn up at other local clubs, only what tickets were sold ( 9 months earlier). And kids tickets are free at PNE so even if they say there are 15k on, 5k may have been given a ticket but we aren't told. 

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29 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I would doubt anyone going to pay more than the listed asking price. 

I doubt anyone will pay £25 million

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I don't think i've seen it anywhere that £25m buys a totally debt free club.

Unless i'm missing summat.

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14 minutes ago, Roger_Dubuis said:

I doubt anyone will pay £25 million

Thanks

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Burndens Bogs said:

I don't think i've seen it anywhere that £25m buys a totally debt free club.

Unless i'm missing summat.

The clubs in Administration. 

In order to get out of Administration it has to comply with EFL regulations.

That means they have to come to an agreement with their creditors (which I've tried to summarise above but failed miserably).

All footballing debts have to be cleared - that's about £3m, I assume any winders (and anyone who piggy backs on to them) needs to be cleared in full too - that's at least £1.2 to HMRC and £800k to Macron, so lets say that's another £2m.

I guess though that after paying those that if the other creditors both secured and unsecured are in agreement AND proof of funding is produced to show there is monies available to do that - then the club could still exit Admin - as a going concern - but still be in debt.

I would imagine though that most would be seeking their money though or asking for more than the minimum 25p in the £ from the unsecured creditors to agree to that though?

Either way the purchaser has to prove he's got the money to settle the debts now even if everybody agrees to defer settlement to later.

 

I also note that Iles is sticking to his guns that funding for the next two years is included in the £25m proof of funds.

Maybe Davies isn't a secured creditor, leaving James £5.5, KA £5m and Warburton £2.5m as the only significant ones - total £13m, around say £4m as unsecured and £3m football creditors, leaving around just £5m to fund two seasons short fall (losses) (and proving that they exist rather than as paying it to the Administrators as part of the purchase price? 

So £13m + £4m +  £3m + £5m = £25m.

Don't know really, just trying to make the sums add up?

Edited by Sluffy
Grammar errors

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Posted (edited)

Just setting aside the cost of the club am surprised no one has mentioned this 

Surely the most interesting comment is the below  figure in the press release 

Mr Appleton said: "There has been substantial interest from the moment of our appointment on May 13. Over 30 parties have approached us and we will now begin the process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club.

So  I will start 

( 1) Football Ventures ( AKA Basran ) 

(2)  Gaspard 

(3) Chinese Mob 

(4) Stelios and the Greeks 

(5) American consortium based in Boston

(6 ) Bassini 

( 7 ) A German Consortium 

(8) Cheshire group based in Knutsford 

(9 ) Supporters Trust 

(10 ) Howards mob 

(11 ) Another far eastern Group 

Right that's me done - thats all the rumours I have heard so who do we think the other 19 are ? 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Benny The Ball

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6 minutes ago, HomerJay said:

Thanks

Well the good news is (apparently) that 25 million isn’t the full upfront cost.

The figure includes the future funding for two seasons.

Maybe that future funding is based off our current wage budget which is low, considering how few players we have left.

So instead of being based off losing 600k a month (or whatever we’re supposed to be haemorrhaging) it’s based off significantly less than that. Otherwise it would would be 14 million off the 25 million. (14 million coming from 600k per month for 24 months).

This was put to Iles 

So he clearly thinks it’s not 14 million for two years proof of funding. I assume he thinks it is less than that.

Still I am confused where 25 million comes from. Sluffy has broken it down well in his post above.

There must be something that’s changed.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:

Just setting aside the cost of the club am surprised no one has mentioned this 

Surely the most interesting comment is the below  figure in the press release 

Mr Appleton said: "There has been substantial interest from the moment of our appointment on May 13. Over 30 parties have approached us and we will now begin the process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club.

So  I will start 

( 1) Football Ventures ( AKA Basran ) 

(2)  Gaspard 

(3) Chinese Mob 

(4) Stelios and the Greeks 

(5) American consortium based in Boston

(6 ) Bassini 

( 7 ) A German Consortium 

(8) Cheshire group based in Knutsford 

(9 ) Supporters Trust 

(10 ) Howards mob 

(11 ) Another far eastern Group 

Right that's me done - thats all the rumours I have heard so who do we think the other 19 are ? 

 

 

 

 

Number 12 is a consortium of ex  Starkie  regulars , after them it all goes downhill.

Edited by Burndens Bogs

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12. Ken and his factored millions

13. Lee Anderson and his business of second hand sportswear.

14. Kathy Lloyd and her slag wellied consortium.

15. Motcombs.

16. The biscuit man.

17. Tamraz.

18. Berkeley assets.

19. The tooth fairy.

20. Santa Claus.

The last 10 are anyone’s guess though.

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I think you must be all reading something different to me as nowhere does it state that £25 million is the buying price.

It says that "Proof of funds amounting to not less than £25million" is one of the "several stipulations which have to be met before any access to financial information pertaining to the sale can be disclosed".

Once those stipulations are satisfied, then that will allow them to be part of the "process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club."

So once those have been satisfied, then the offers could be... who knows?

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, flourbag said:

I think you must be all reading something different to me as nowhere does it state that £25 million is the buying price.

It says that "Proof of funds amounting to not less than £25million" is one of the "several stipulations which have to be met before any access to financial information pertaining to the sale can be disclosed".

Once those stipulations are satisfied, then that will allow them to be part of the "process of selecting those best positioned to make a serious offer for the club."

So once those have been satisfied, then the offers could be... who knows?

You are right the £25m is not the buying price - as I noted in my last post - but it is indicative as to the actual value of the club (less whatever it is the EFL is looking for to fund the clubs expected shortfall on trading over the next two years).

There might be a bidding war but even then I doubt the final purchase price will exceed the companies assets to any significant amount unless the purchaser knows something of value in the purchases that the rest of us are unaware of.

I also at this stage don't see anything preventing the club and the hotel to be ultimately purchased separately, although the Administrators are clearly signalling they would prefer one purchaser to own both.  Maybe there is something preventing such happening in the small print perhaps?

Also worth noting is that the £25m quoted is in theory to buy and run the club and not to reorganise it (say sack the manager and associated costs) or strengthening the team (transfer war chest of millions - or perhaps not?).  I guess these costs will also need to be factored in by whoever ends up buying us.

Edited by Sluffy
Grammar errors

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The administrators have presumably a) found out what the real debt level is b) told the creditors that they aren't going to get all their money back especially if the club goes tits up and c) advised them what they can reasonably expect if they can agree a percentage that wouldn't preclude a sale.

Sounds like they've worked quickly to arrive at a compromise position that has been accepted by the creditors which is good news. Doesn't in any way guarantee a sale but the position i.e. cost is the best they have been able to come up with.

Sluffy - you know I've been telling you it would come to this for the best part of two years, but I'm past caring now, however to intimate that the figure is what Anderson came up with in his valuation and by implication that somehow he was right all along is low even for you. Please stop reaching for justifications for what has been - as I've suspected and suggested all along - a period of gross mismanagement. And stop quoting me on "the truth will come out eventually" which I was forced to use every time you were lecturing me on what an outstanding job Anderson was doing especially as even now it's clear to everyone he's lost money hand over fist and possibly done much worse. Surely now you agree with my original hypotheses at least to some extent?

Or are you still saying (quote) "Mr Anderson hasn't let us down yet" and the classic:

"Beaten Holdsworth - check

Beaten HMRC - check

Beaten ST - check

What else is there for him to take on?"

No doubt if the Chinese buy us out of admin you'll still be saying he's done a great job despite us being relegated with a yet to be determined points deduction, the staff not getting paid and the club's assets having been decimated during his tenure.

Jaysus.

 

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