Take Over

[Sluffy]

39 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

Took hundreds of thousands out while not putting any in, signed contracts and racked up debts he never had any intention of paying back, sold the EFL and everyone else a pack of lies and dragged everything out for as long as possible in the hope someone would give him a payday. Did not give the slightest fuck what happened to the club afterwards, or the penalties his brinkmanship would incur.

If you read this part again it would apply equally well to Phil Gartside I would suggest?

End of the day - and despite your obsessional hatred of Anderson, and anybody you thinks supports him - the basic economics is that the club cost more to run than the revenue it was earning.

Could he or Holdsworth have done anything about that without subsidising the losses with their own money - the answer is no - the player and commercial contracts they inherited were simply too great a burden on the business, and they couldn't terminate them or have the means to buy them out.

Why did Eddie sell to Holdsworth/Anderson - who knows, but it does seem likely he was financially propping up the club in the background.

When he suddenly died that financial safety net was no longer there and the club quickly imploded.

Yes Ken made money out of the club but that's not a crime, neither is being a cunt.

Do you think Sharron and the others (maybe James apart) are taking on the club to make money for themselves or to piss all their personal wealth away on it?  Why is it wrong that Anderson made money on it then - I'd hazard a guess that Gartside made much more out of it.

I get you hate Anderson but it's not Anderson supposed raping and pillaging of the club that brought it down but the contracts (both player and commercial - the Administrator was quick off the marks to terminate Heathcote's for instance) that Gartside set up which Holdsworth and Anderson inherited that ultimately brought the club to its knees, when Davies was no longer there to bail it out.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Sluffy
Grammar errors

[tomski]

44 minutes ago, HomerJay said:

see this i have an issue with.

how can you say he had no intention? if we had big crowds, we get big gate receipts and payment problems go away (or at least ease). thats pretty much a fact, not an opinion.

plus, maybe he thought he could sell a "superstar ameobi" in january and subsidise any shortfall, if need be.

his mistake was that he thought we would win games, and folk would turn up.

plus he had big plans for non-football activities, which hasnt really worked that well. - know this because i had a official conversation with BWFC about that very topic.

 

ken handled shit badly, and did certainly did fuck up on more than one occasion. plus he is has the greasiest hair around. but this does not make him the fucking anti-christ.

 

I think Dale Vince says it himself. It’s not a massive leap off faith to get to my conclusion is it. 

To answer your anti Christ point he’s the only bloke my owd fella who’s 67 now said he’d like to chin in recent years that takes some doing. 

He made plenty more mistakes than thinking folk would turn up.

The disdain he had for this fan base and town fits the bill for me. Squeezed what he could (legally to avoid a 2 pager off Sluffy) and then left the club on his arse.

Hes a twat 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by tomski

[birch-chorley]

Aye, ok 

It was the mythical catering contract that ‘brought the club to its knees’ 

What was it again, 20% if turnover + a fixed fee up front,  I bet Heatcoats has had millions out of that bent deal 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

9 minutes ago, tomski said:

I think Dale Vince says it himself. It’s not a massive leap off faith to get to my conclusion is it. 

To answer your anti Christ point he’s the only bloke my owd fella who’s 67 now said he’d like to chin in recent years that takes some doing. 

He made plenty more mistakes than thinking folk would turn up.

The disdain he had for this fan base and town fits the bill for me. Squeezed what he could (legally to avoid a 2 pager off Sluffy) and then left the club on his arse.

Hes a twat 

 

100% agree.

Hiding behind technicalities of legal status etc doesn't get away from the fact he is a bad un.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Peter Emerson Jones confirms he's never had any dealings with Bassini.

Someone needs to sue that fantasist and get him away from the public spotlight

[Sluffy]

2 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Aye, ok 

It was the mythical catering contract that ‘brought the club to its knees’ 

What was it again, 20% if turnover + a fixed fee up front,  I bet Heatcoats has had millions out of that bent deal 

One of the first things the Administrators did.

Wonder why he even bothered if it was only costing the club buttons?

I guess this Administrator must be rank bad, end of story too?

Or maybe not and the contract was not deemed fair and equitable compared to the market profit margins for such contracts?

(Fwiw it sounds to me that the deal was entered into with going out to tender and comparing the prices of other competitors bids - just my view though).

Whatever it was though it was potted from the very start of the process - and that was clearly done for a reason - no matter what you may think.

[TroySwoosh]

if you put your mouse pointer over someones name a little box pops up and at the bottom it gives the option to ignore user 

 

[Boby Brno]

43 minutes ago, tomski said:

I think Dale Vince says it himself. It’s not a massive leap off faith to get to my conclusion is it. 

To answer your anti Christ point he’s the only bloke my owd fella who’s 67 now said he’d like to chin in recent years that takes some doing. 

He made plenty more mistakes than thinking folk would turn up.

The disdain he had for this fan base and town fits the bill for me. Squeezed what he could (legally to avoid a 2 pager off Sluffy) and then left the club on his arse.

Hes a twat 

 

People guessing how much he earned over his 3 year tenure. When the dust settles it will become clear that it was an amount plus 6 zeros. At the same time driving the club down to its lowest point in its history and not giving one shit. All this while lots of local suppliers (including me) lost hundreds and in some cases, thousands of pounds. 

I couldn’t care less what armchair accountants have to say on the matter. Twat is too soft a description for the bloke. If your dad is serious, he’ll have to join the (very long) queue.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Boby Brno said:

People guessing how much he earned over his 3 year tenure. When the dust settles it will become clear that it was an amount plus 6 zeros. At the same time driving the club down to its lowest point in its history and not giving one shit. All this while lots of local suppliers (including me) lost hundreds and in some cases, thousands of pounds. 

I couldn’t care less what armchair accountants have to say on the matter. Twat is too soft a description for the bloke. If your dad is serious, he’ll have to join the (very long) queue.

Absolutely. Perhaps heathcotes could provide some catering for those in the queue. They may be there some time!.

[birch-chorley]

35 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

One of the first things the Administrators did.

Wonder why he even bothered if it was only costing the club buttons?

I guess this Administrator must be rank bad, end of story too?

Or maybe not and the contract was not deemed fair and equitable compared to the market profit margins for such contracts?

(Fwiw it sounds to me that the deal was entered into with going out to tender and comparing the prices of other competitors bids - just my view though).

Whatever it was though it was potted from the very start of the process - and that was clearly done for a reason - no matter what you may think.

Firstly didn’t Ken re negotiate that deal? 

Secondly how have the administrators managed to get rid of Heathcoates when Ken couldn’t as he was locked into the contract? 

I’m surmising that the contract expired in the same way that many players contracts have also expired 

Its not for the administrators to sign up to new catering contracts just as they aren’t signing any new player deals 

I doubt they have even tendered out a new catering contract 

The plot thickens 

I tell you what, seen as your so good at reviewing companies accounts on line, why dont you look at the filed accounts for Heathcoates and prove conclusively that they have had millions in profit out of the club that as you say ‘brought the club to its knees’ 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Iirc, the admin did cancel it, but as they'd put the club on stop at the end of the season for money owed, it was meaningless anyway.

Moreover, as it's closed season, it's not an essential service either.

The admin haven't paid the company that own the changing facilities on the training ground either.

It's clearly obvious that ken has behaved terribly. He'll never own a club again.

[Sluffy]

Just now, birch-chorley said:

Firstly didn’t Ken re negotiate that deal? 

Secondly how have the administrators managed to get rid of Heathcoates when Ken couldn’t as he was locked into the contract? 

I’m surmising that the contract expired in the same way that many players contracts have also expired 

Its not for the administrators to sign up to new catering contracts just as they aren’t signing any new player deals 

I doubt they have even tendered out a new catering contract 

The plot thickens 

I tell you what, seen as your so good at reviewing companies accounts on line, why dont you look at the filed accounts for Heathcoates and prove conclusively that they have had millions in profit out of the club that as you say ‘brought the club to its knees’ 

Seriously?

You take it upon yourself to argue and you don't even know the basic of facts, and are completely ignorant of what Administrators can do???

1 - No Anderson did not negotiate the deal, it dates back to Gartside's days.

2 - Administrators have draconian legal powers to terminate contracts and make people redundant for instance, without the need to go through the process everyone else would.

3 - You surmise wrongly, the contract had not run it's term and expired - it was terminated.

4 - The Administrator has the powers to TUPE the catering staff to his own company and pass on the staff on again to the new owners as an in-house catering service.

5 - The Administrator has the power to enter into contracts for the duration of the Administration period in order to keep the company trading and solvent where necessary.

6 - There has been no need to tender out a new catering contract, that option can be taken up by the new owners if they did not wish to retain an in-house service.

7 - The plot doesn't seem to be the thickest thing around here.

8 - This is what the Administrator said -

Partner, Andrew Hosking, said: “The priority of the administrators is to ensure the best outcome for stakeholders.

“We will be working with the management team to assist the hotel to return to short term profitability.

“To assist with this exercise the administrators have scrutinised the existing financial commitments of the hotel. It has become apparent that the existing contract for the provision of catering is not aligned to the objectives of the administrators and as such, the decision has been made to bring the provision of high-quality catering in house in the interest of the hotel and the creditors.”

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17654662.bolton-whites-hotel-cuts-ties-with-catering-partners-heathcote-co/

Does that make it a little clearer for you?

[Tombwfc]

1 hour ago, Sluffy said:

If you read this part again it would apply equally well to Phil Gartside I would suggest?

End of the day - and despite your obsessional hatred of Anderson, and anybody you thinks supports him - the basic economics is that the club cost more to run than the revenue it was earning.

Could he or Holdsworth have done anything about that without subsidising the losses with their own money - the answer is no - the player and commercial contracts they inherited were simply too great a burden on the business, and they couldn't terminate them or have the means to buy them out.

Why did Eddie sell to Holdsworth/Anderson - who knows, but it does seem likely he was financially propping up the club in the background.

When he suddenly died that financial safety net was no longer there and the club quickly imploded.

Yes Ken made money out of the club but that's not a crime, neither is being a cunt.

Do you think Sharron and the others (maybe James apart) are taking on the club to make money for themselves or to piss all their personal wealth away on it?  Why is it wrong that Anderson made money on it then - I'd hazard a guess that Gartside made much more out of it.

I get you hate Anderson but it's not Anderson supposed raping and pillaging of the club that brought it down but the contracts (both player and commercial - the Administrator was quick off the marks to terminate Heathcote's for instance) that Gartside set up which Holdsworth and Anderson inherited that ultimately brought the club to its knees, when Davies was no longer there to bail it out.

 

 

You'd suggest wrong.

Gartside was employed by Eddie Davies. He didn't decide how much money to pay himself while choosing not to pay others. Eddie paid PG what he wanted to pay him, and he paid it with his own money.

Nobody has accused Ken of committing a crime. They're accusing him of nearly killing the club and fucking over hundreds of people because of his own greed. And yes, being a cunt.

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

Took hundreds of thousands out while not putting any in, signed contracts and racked up debts he never had any intention of paying back, sold the EFL and everyone else a pack of lies and dragged everything out for as long as possible in the hope someone would give him a payday. Did not give the slightest fuck what happened to the club afterwards, or the penalties his brinkmanship would incur.

It was often said over the past few years that we could judge Ken when we see what shape he leaves us in, whether the ends justified the means. Well we have seen now and people are still wasting hundreds of words defending him.

'What more could he have done?' Jesus fucking christ.

Sums it up succinctly. Idiots trying to defend their position on KA rather than admit they were wrong. 

[birch-chorley]

Sluffy, again ridiculously long so I won’t quote 

I said RE NEGOTIATE 

I’m sure Ken said that he had re negotiated the deal when it all kicked off the first time, he was later slaying it as a bad deal (very Donald Trump) 

If that deal is really the deal that ‘brought the club to its knees’ as you have suggested then Surely the Heathcoates stadium catering accounts will show huge profits to the tune of millions. An expert like you should be able to find that easily enough 

I’d wager that Heathcoates has made less profit in three years from the catering contract than Otzumer has had in wages since he last kicked a ball for us 

 

[tomski]

1 hour ago, Boby Brno said:

People guessing how much he earned over his 3 year tenure. When the dust settles it will become clear that it was an amount plus 6 zeros. At the same time driving the club down to its lowest point in its history and not giving one shit. All this while lots of local suppliers (including me) lost hundreds and in some cases, thousands of pounds. 

I couldn’t care less what armchair accountants have to say on the matter. Twat is too soft a description for the bloke. If your dad is serious, he’ll have to join the (very long) queue.

Oh aye I’ll jump on that queue as well. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Ken did indeed go on about the renegotiation of contracts, and iirc claimed to have done so with heathcotes.

Whether that was actually true, god knows.

All meaningless of course if you don't pay.

[Sluffy]

Just now, Tombwfc said:

 

You'd suggest wrong.

Gartside was employed by Eddie Davies. He didn't decide how much money to pay himself while choosing not to pay others. Eddie paid PG what he wanted to pay him, and he paid it with his own money.

Nobody has accused Ken of committing a crime. They're accusing him of nearly killing the club and fucking over hundreds of people because of his own greed. And yes, being a cunt.

Well running up a debt of £200 million on somebody else's tab sounds to me that he didn't believe the club on whose behalf he entered into all these contracts were ever going to pay it back - does it to you?

Davies certainly didn't pay Gartside with his own money, Directors Remunerations are paid by the Company and not the owner.

I believe the Directors set their own levels of remuneration and that the shareholders vote on whether to accept that figure or not - Eddie obviously being the main shareholder did.  As Eddie seemed to be totally reliant on Gartside running the club I suggest there was never a realistic chance of him not receiving what he was asking for.

For the record Directors Remuneration for the year before Holdsworth and Anderson took over was £637k. 

I would think Gartside did far more to nearly kill the club by allowing such debt to accrue and enter into so many ridiculous player and commercial contracts than anything Anderson has managed to achieve.

Hence why I think the comparison is still valid imo.

Nobody as accused Gartside of committing a crime either but it is as a direct result of his actions where we find ourselves now - namely a club that costs more to run than what it brings in.

 

[rochdale white]

1 hour ago, Boby Brno said:

People guessing how much he earned over his 3 year tenure. When the dust settles it will become clear that it was an amount plus 6 zeros. At the same time driving the club down to its lowest point in its history and not giving one shit. All this while lots of local suppliers (including me) lost hundreds and in some cases, thousands of pounds. 

I couldn’t care less what armchair accountants have to say on the matter. Twat is too soft a description for the bloke. If your dad is serious, he’ll have to join the (very long) queue.

Yeah but as long as it was wasn’t anything illegal Boby then that’s fine, according to some!

[barrycowdrill]

Is it longest post wins in here now or something? 

Fuck me, get summat to do 

[RoadRunnerFan]

25 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Raking over old...... 

round and..... 

For fucks.....

Kens a .....

The only gig in ......

The only show in .....

Holdsworth made a £????

And many many more that will be repeated again and again and again.

 

 

Going over the same old ground, and how we found the same old fears. Wish Nick was here........

[Sluffy]

23 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

Sluffy, again ridiculously long so I won’t quote 

I said RE NEGOTIATE 

I’m sure Ken said that he had re negotiated the deal when it all kicked off the first time, he was later slaying it as a bad deal (very Donald Trump) 

If that deal is really the deal that ‘brought the club to its knees’ as you have suggested then Surely the Heathcoates stadium catering accounts will show huge profits to the tune of millions. An expert like you should be able to find that easily enough 

I’d wager that Heathcoates has made less profit in three years from the catering contract than Otzumer has had in wages since he last kicked a ball for us 

1 - Yes he tried to renegotiate but Heathcotes wouldn't budge, so there was nothing he could do.

2 - I said it was one of a number of PLAYER and commercial contracts to bring the club to its knees, not the sole one that did.

[bwfc2003]

Please FV - get the contract signed and start work then we can stop all this Kens a hero/kens a saint shite - with the main protagonists constantly regurgitating the same old shite we have been reading for the last few weeks/months!!!!

[Clarence Carter]

Nixon tweeting:

Bolton. Phil Parkinson set to stay if Football Ventures close deal. Paul Aldridge also to have senior role.

[radcliffe white]

Can’t wait