bwfcfan5 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, leebwfc said: Cheers, I get it now (I think) So if PBP are part of this consortium and / or just want their 5m back then surely they wouldn't fight any other bidder because they get it either way, then when whoever else buys the hotel (that they didnt want) is stuck with a lemon. Thats seems to be the case and thats why this is dragging on so long. They just have to poker face this out because there are no "real" rivals to their bid? Think it’s more a question of whether PbP - James and Morris want their 5.5M back in cash immediate or a stake in club/hotel. James is in FV to make deal cheaper and help protect club. But what if PbP would prefer their cash and not to be involved in running club? I think if FV/James want hotel they will get it. Because James is largest secured creditor and if they are converting 5.5M to equity it’s going to take a mental bid to beat that. But I guess it’s a question of what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, leebwfc said: Cheers, I get it now (I think) So if PBP are part of this consortium and / or just want their 5m back then surely they wouldn't fight any other bidder because they get it either way, then when whoever else buys the hotel (that they didnt want) is stuck with a lemon. Thats seems to be the case and thats why this is dragging on so long. They just have to poker face this out because there are no "real" rivals to their bid? The one thing I've been wondered about was why the hotel bid was taking so long for FV to put in (yes I know Nixon says it is already in). The only thing I could come up with is if they didn't trust the integrity of the hotel Administrator and fear that the amount bid is disclosed to a rival, who bids a penny more (so to speak) and forces some sort of a last minute deal if FV wants/needs the hotel so much. I don't believe that would be the case though, I'm sure even the hotel Administrator wouldn't bend that far. Maybe they have put there bid in and there have been no others to date? Even if this other bid was genuine and even if it was for say £7m then I'm sure PBP could veto it as the majority creditor by debt - PBP being £5.5m, Anderson presumably being £1.5m (his secured creditor claim being shown as 'uncertain' by the Administrator) and unsecured debtors of £2.2m having no say at all. If so FV are always going to get the hotel unless a bid of something like £11m is bid which would mean Ken's £3.5m plus the £2.2m unsecured would then give them the majority vote over PBP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Think it’s more a question of whether PbP - James and Morris want their 5.5M back in cash immediate or a stake in club/hotel. James is in FV to make deal cheaper and help protect club. But what if PbP would prefer their cash and not to be involved in running club? I think if FV/James want hotel they will get it. Because James is largest secured creditor and if they are converting 5.5M to equity it’s going to take a mental bid to beat that. But I guess it’s a question of what they want. yea good point, surely FV / MJ know the rival bids are bollocks though in reality so the cash now option is not really there, if it actually was then maybe that makes a mess of everything but like you said, would be mental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Sluffy said: The one thing I've been wondered about was why the hotel bid was taking so long for FV to put in (yes I know Nixon says it is already in). The only thing I could come up with is if they didn't trust the integrity of the hotel Administrator and fear that the amount bid is disclosed to a rival, who bids a penny more (so to speak) and forces some sort of a last minute deal if FV wants/needs the hotel so much. I don't believe that would be the case though, I'm sure even the hotel Administrator wouldn't bend that far. Maybe they have put there bid in and there have been no others to date? Even if this other bid was genuine and even if it was for say £7m then I'm sure PBP could veto it as the majority creditor by debt - PBP being £5.5m, Anderson presumably being £1.5m (his secured creditor claim being shown as 'uncertain' by the Administrator) and unsecured debtors of £2.2m having no say at all. If so FV are always going to get the hotel unless a bid of something like £11m is bid which would mean Ken's £3.5m plus the £2.2m unsecured would then give them the majority vote over PBP. yes, and its hard to see anyone of sound mind trying to pay 11m for a hotel that barely makes a profit attached to a football team on it's arse. Edited August 5, 2019 by leebwfc *a football team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 If FV/MJ purchase the hotel with PBP's charge being converted into equity in the club and hotel, where does that leave Tom Morris? Because James is a director of FV but Morris isn't. So, Morris won't receive his 80% of £5.5M charge in cash and neither he nor his company will have any shares in FV (if I've understood it correctly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Egg Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Can I just clarify? We are all in agreement that Ken's an utter c*nt aren't we? I bloody hope so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: If FV/MJ purchase the hotel with PBP's charge being converted into equity in the club and hotel, where does that leave Tom Morris? Because James is a director of FV but Morris isn't. So, Morris won't receive his 80% of £5.5M charge in cash and neither he nor his company will have any shares in FV (if I've understood it correctly). That's the gist of the rhetorical question I asked myself earlier on today in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: If FV/MJ purchase the hotel with PBP's charge being converted into equity in the club and hotel, where does that leave Tom Morris? Because James is a director of FV but Morris isn't. So, Morris won't receive his 80% of £5.5M charge in cash and neither he nor his company will have any shares in FV (if I've understood it correctly). You’ve answered your own question. Debt/equity swap would see pbp as shareholders. Directors and shareholders completely different things. Equity is shares so how can they have equity and no shares? Sluffy I expected better if you on this one Edited August 5, 2019 by Escobarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Duck Egg said: Can I just clarify? We are all in agreement that Ken's an utter c*nt aren't we? I bloody hope so Morally probably yes. Legally probably no. Put yourself in his shoes - if you had a chance for £3.5m legally, would you 'play' people to get it or just turn your back and walk away - and I think you will get your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sluffy said: Morally probably yes. Legally probably no. Put yourself in his shoes - if you had a chance for £3.5m legally, would you 'play' people to get it or just turn your back and walk away - and I think you will get your answer. We're all cunts 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Escobarp said: You’ve answered your own question. Debt/equity swap would see pbp as shareholders. Directors and shareholders completely different things. Equity is shares so how can they have equity and no shares? Sluffy I expected better if you on this one Is there any significance in James being a shareholder in FV now but not Morris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: If FV/MJ purchase the hotel with PBP's charge being converted into equity in the club and hotel, where does that leave Tom Morris? Because James is a director of FV but Morris isn't. So, Morris won't receive his 80% of £5.5M charge in cash and neither he nor his company will have any shares in FV (if I've understood it correctly). What If as part of the future expansion of Middlebrook by its owners Emerson that involves a deal to construct multi storey car parks on BWFC existing car parks that sees in return a Home Bargains store built on Middlebrooks existing car parks - everyone's happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: Is there any significance in James being a shareholder in FV now but not Morris? No. MJ has a tie to the club and is not shy about that. the current company is a shell. It does nothing currently and owns nothing. Whatever deal is agreed will leave the current structure a thing of the past. Too many folk looking at CH And making wild guesses Edited August 5, 2019 by Escobarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughmungus Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Just now, Benny The Ball said: What If as part of the future expansion of Middlebrook by its owners Emerson that involves a deal to construct multi storey car parks on BWFC existing car parks that sees in return a Home Bargains store built on Middlebrooks existing car parks - everyone's happy Think we both suggested this a couple of hundred pages back, it still makes sense bearing in mind the success of the retail park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Benny The Ball said: What If as part of the future expansion of Middlebrook by its owners Emerson that involves a deal to construct multi storey car parks on BWFC existing car parks that sees in return a Home Bargains store built on Middlebrooks existing car parks - everyone's happy But then you’re talking about writing the debt off Benny not debt/equity and a separate commercial agreement which is very plausible I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Just now, hughmungus said: Think we both suggested this a couple of hundred pages back, it still makes sense bearing in mind the success of the retail park. So recently !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) I’d take folk with the most money over folk coppering up all day long. If that’s the boo hoo lot then so be it. Edited August 5, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Take Hunt Off Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I’d take folk with the most money over folk coppering up all day long. If that’s the boo hoo lot then so be it. Depends on their intentions for our club surely ....to them it could mean Jack shit careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted August 5, 2019 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2019 One thing about MJ, we would be getting a fan involved Doesn't guarantee success but I'd be confident if it went to shit, it wouldn't be deliberate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Take Hunt Off said: Depends on their intentions for our club surely ....to them it could mean Jack shit careful what you wish for. I’d think it’s safe to say that any party interested at this stage are picking over the bones and trying to secure a guaranteed profit out of flipping the assets / property The time for a loony billionaire throwing money away was a few months back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted August 5, 2019 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2019 If the trust had owt about them, maybe mj would have been one of their fabled hnw's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 If the trust has owt about them they would have come forward with a credible plan like proper ST’s have done in the past at other clubs in turmoil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: I’d think it’s safe to say that any party interested at this stage are picking over the bones and trying to secure a guaranteed profit out of flipping the assets / property The time for a loony billionaire throwing money away was a few months back In which case, I'd rather we got the one with a supporter on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted August 5, 2019 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, birch-chorley said: I’d think it’s safe to say that any party interested at this stage are picking over the bones If you are including MJ in that, you are wrong If not, then accept my apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Just now, Casino said: One thing about MJ, we would be getting a fan involved Doesn't guarantee success but I'd be confident if it went to shit, it wouldn't be deliberate As I pointed out earlier what Nixon tweeted was " its a group backed by the Kamani family " therefore not them directly What does that mean ? For all we know at this point in time it could be Bassini with a new funder I'm with you - better the devil you know - folk need to be careful what they wish for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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