Farrelli Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, Rubberkex said: Hello boys and girls...pie eater here. This is now beyond rivalry and should give nobody any pleasure. Living local I know Bowton fans ( mostly decent although 1 or 2 knobheads ) and they are going through shite. Take this or leave it but I wish you well on this subject and hope it can be sorted. Fair play to you for coming on and saying that. There are always a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnywhite Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Just in respect of Marc Iles’ comments on twitter regarding administration; None of the secured debts are in default, Ken is in default to Moonshift but that only means that Moonshift can put ICI in to administration, not BWFC. They would also have to fund the administration of ICI which includes monthly payments to Ken & Lee..... The only administration option is a CVA but that requires Ken to provide 3 months running costs and will require £20M upfront cash to get out of. Basran doesn’t have £20M upfront and so wouldn’t do a deal in administration, it’s cheaper for him to buy now for £8-£10M and do deals with creditors. Hi Howard yesterday you said you thought a deal was the most likely out come before liquidation. Does basrin have the funds to do a deal at over 10 million ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Howardroark said: None of the secured debts are in default, Do you mean that extensions to the repayment date have been agreed with PBP and Brett Warburton or that they haven't served notice of default? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Do you mean that extensions to the repayment date have been agreed with PBP and Brett Warburton or that they haven't served notice of default? Not served notice of default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Biggish Dave Posted March 19, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2019 I really hope i'm being a drama queen but I have a very bad feeling about all of this. If we end up booted out of the league, that's me done with football at every level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radcliffe white Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Biggish Dave said: I really hope i'm being a drama queen but I have a very bad feeling about all of this. If we end up booted out of the league, that's me done with football at every level Drama queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Farnywhite said: Hi Howard yesterday you said you thought a deal was the most likely out come before liquidation. Does basrin have the funds to do a deal at over 10 million ? So £10M is broken down as: £5M to repay Moonshift secured loan £3M to clear unsecured loans to Moonshift £2M golden goodbye Ken may negotiate on the last one, but he won’t on the other two. They would then almost immediately need to deal with every unsecured creditor to prevent piggybacking on the HMRC WU. The actual issue here is that Moonshift will not do a deal with Basran to defer or reduce the debt amount because they don’t believe he has the funds. Ultimately Basran needs more up front funds than they have. To buy from administration they’d need £20M minimum. Basically they need to persuade Ken to take £8M and my guess is that he will but he wants a payment relating to future performance as compensation for waiving the £2M. This does however make the assumption that Basran has £8M + the amount to deal with unsecured creditors. Edited March 19, 2019 by Howardroark Add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Howardroark said: So £10M is broken down as: £5M to repay Moonshift secured loan £3M to clear unsecured loans to Moonshift £2M golden goodbye Ken may negotiate on the last one, but he won’t on the other two. They would then almost immediately need to deal with every unsecured creditor to prevent piggybacking on the HMRC WU. The actual issue here is that Moonshift will not do a deal with Basran to defer or reduce the debt amount because they don’t believe he has the funds. Ultimately Basran needs more up front funds than they have. To buy from administration they’d need £20M minimum. Basically they need to persuade Ken to take £8M and my guess is that he will but he wants a payment relating to future performance as compensation for waiving the £2M. This does however make the assumption that Basran has £8M + the amount to deal with unsecured creditors. I thought your money was on someone else buying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 The other issue is that you can’t pre-pack a football club, so an interim purchase followed by immediate administration and then pre-pack purchase by the same group isn’t an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said: I thought your money was on someone else buying? It is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Faustus Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Wow, The more I think of this situation, the more it draws parallels of Bird Box; not the disaster that's behind us, walking around blindfolded, possibility of no future, or the fear of the unknown... just that its a bit shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Egg Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 45 minutes ago, Rubberkex said: Hello boys and girls...pie eater here. This is now beyond rivalry and should give nobody any pleasure. Living local I know Bowton fans ( mostly decent although 1 or 2 knobheads ) and they are going through shite. Take this or leave it but I wish you well on this subject and hope it can be sorted. At last. A post on this thread that I fully understand. Cheers pal. I've never had any time for Latics, or Wiganers in general tbh, but I'd rather you were around than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 And just another quick point on the Basran bid, Under a WU you can’t dispose (sell) of any assets at below their market value, KA may be using this to justify his demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Just now, Howardroark said: And just another quick point on the Basran bid, Under a WU you can’t dispose (sell) of any assets at below their market value, KA may be using this to justify his demands. What is their market value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Just now, bwfcfan5 said: What is their market value? Technically you would say zero, but in reality Ken would probably be able to claim that they have value (for example he could establish the transfer rates of all the players, the sale of all assets etc and then deduct that from the debt to get value estimate). A friendly valuer would be a likely compadre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, Howardroark said: So £10M is broken down as: £5M to repay Moonshift secured loan £3M to clear unsecured loans to Moonshift £2M golden goodbye Ken may negotiate on the last one, but he won’t on the other two. They would then almost immediately need to deal with every unsecured creditor to prevent piggybacking on the HMRC WU. The actual issue here is that Moonshift will not do a deal with Basran to defer or reduce the debt amount because they don’t believe he has the funds. Ultimately Basran needs more up front funds than they have. To buy from administration they’d need £20M minimum. Basically they need to persuade Ken to take £8M and my guess is that he will but he wants a payment relating to future performance as compensation for waiving the £2M. This does however make the assumption that Basran has £8M + the amount to deal with unsecured creditors. Ken wants a golden goodbye plus someone to pay off his £3million unsecured loan, does he? Before offering anything, I'd want to know where the £3m went but at present I don't see Ken being in the driving seat or a strong bargaining position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Ken wants a golden goodbye plus someone to pay off his £3million unsecured loan, does he? Before offering anything, I'd want to know where the £3m went but at present I don't see Ken being in the driving seat or a strong bargaining position. He does, and I believe that’s the question being posed to him- “account for every penny and we will consider it”. He is not in a strong position, quite correct, liquidation leaves him on the hook. The problem does however remain that Basran needs to have the funds to complete, deal with the unsecured debt, and pass F&PP. If KA is the largest unsecured creditor then what hope do they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveh Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Changing tack slightly here, I’m still a little confused as to why the season ticket DD’s have still not been taken. The club promised an update, but it’s all gone quiet 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Just now, Daveh said: Changing tack slightly here, I’m still a little confused as to why the season ticket DD’s have still not been taken. The club promised an update, but it’s all gone quiet 🤔 In insolvency you can’t take funds for something you might not be able to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveh Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Howardroark said: In insolvency you can’t take funds for something you might not be able to deliver. Thanks Howard. That’s what I feared. I was made redundant 18 months ago after working for a long-standing airline for 29 years. Sadly this has all the hallmarks of what I experienced then 😟 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, Daveh said: Thanks Howard. That’s what I feared. I was made redundant 18 months ago after working for a long-standing airline for 29 years. Sadly this has all the hallmarks of what I experienced then 😟 Just to reduce the fears a little bit, ‘insolvency’ in this case is defined as being subject to a winding up petition, it may not actually be insolvent in the literal sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Just to reduce the fears a little bit, ‘insolvency’ in this case is defined as being subject to a winding up petition, it may not actually be insolvent in the literal sense But very probably is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Faustus Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Just to reduce the fears a little bit, ‘insolvency’ in this case is defined as being subject to a winding up petition, it may not actually be insolvent in the literal sense So Howard, just to be certain, you are offering your personal guarantee that everything will be hunky-dory, promotion to the EPL is certain within five years, and all hotdogs will be buttered once we can afford a tub of lurpak? surely there is no middle ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: But very probably is..... Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, Dr Faustus said: So Howard, just to be certain, you are offering your personal guarantee that everything will be hunky-dory, promotion to the EPL is certain within five years, and all hotdogs will be buttered once we can afford a tub of lurpak? surely there is no middle ground? That really depends on what you consider to be "hunky-dory"..... certainly not EPL and definitely not Lurpak, have you seen the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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