Take Over

[leadfrog1]

There's a massive gap between L1 and the championship, apart from the top 4/5 they're fairly poor quality. For L1 we had a very good squad full of championship experience.

Parkinson has to go because he's a poor manager. we need some with vision who can begin to build a team to not only get promotion but with the aim of doing more than just surviving in the championship.

[leadfrog1]

5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Flip it again...the reason we went up was down to signing a Bradford reserve who couldn't get into their first team....

And the point I'm making is that apart from Madine none of our players have gone on to become established championship or higher level have they? 

Zach Clough did well for us for that half season - now can't get in Rochdale's team. 

Lets look at the team against Sheffield United - first day of that season and see where they are now...

Mark Howard - League one

Lawrie Wilson - Non league

Mark Beevers - League one

David Wheater - Unattached

Dean Moxey - League two

Chris Taylor- Unattached

Jay Spearing - League one

Josh Vela - Unattached

Lewis Buxton - Unattached (hasn't played since playing for us)

Darren Pratley - Championship 

Gary Madine - Championship

Bench: Amos (Unattached), Proctor (League one), Derik (Segunda), Davies (retired), Trotter (USA), Woolery (league 2), Walker (league 2)

Does that list of names and their subsequent careers scream that we had a team ready made to conquer league one? Full of stars?

Tbf that was 4 years ago alot of those players were fairly old then, plus it's the closed season, players like vela and Amos will find teams in L1 or the championship. 

Marc-Antoine Fortune is now playing for Chesterfield in the non league... Doesn't mean he was a non league player when he was in the Premier league. Players tend to get worse with age. 

[radcliffe white]

Let’s get the team up what finished the season as well 

yes bang average line up against Sheffield but as the season went on it Got better and better 

[bwfcfan5]

7 minutes ago, leadfrog1 said:

Tbf that was 4 years ago alot of those players were fairly old then, plus it's the closed season, players like vela and Amos will find teams in L1 or the championship. 

Marc-Antoine Fortune is now playing for Chesterfield in the non league... Doesn't mean he was a non league player when he was in the Premier league. Players tend to get worse with age. 

Well yes but that's partly my point. When we went into league one we had a squad of players roughly of that level. With few who were at that point capable of playing at a higher level to any great success. Whether they had once been good enough or not is irrelevant. 

Now there were some decent players in there and some decent ones were signed. But to suggest we went into the season with a superb group is a complete and utter myth. Going up was a good achievement considering where we were. Like it or not. 

[Tombwfc]

13 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Flip it again...the reason we went up was down to signing a Bradford reserve who couldn't get into their first team....

And the point I'm making is that apart from Madine none of our players have gone on to become established championship or higher level have they?

Zach Clough did well for us for that half season - now can't get in Rochdale's team. 

Lets look at the team against Sheffield United - first day of that season and see where they are now...

Mark Howard - League one

Lawrie Wilson - Non league

Mark Beevers - League one

David Wheater - Unattached

Dean Moxey - League two

Chris Taylor- Unattached

Jay Spearing - League one

Josh Vela - Unattached

Lewis Buxton - Unattached (hasn't played since playing for us)

Darren Pratley - Championship 

Gary Madine - Championship

Bench: Amos (Unattached), Proctor (League one), Derik (Segunda), Davies (retired), Trotter (USA), Woolery (league 2), Walker (league 2)

Does that list of names and their subsequent careers scream that we had a team ready made to conquer league one? Full of stars?

 

How many Fleetwood Town players from that season have done? 

Picking an arbitrary game because Clough and Ameobi weren't in the team that day is irrelevant. Banging on about how shit our players were is also irrelevant unless you can explain, by your own logic, how everyone else had better ones?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

They just had shitter managers. 

[tomski]

@bwfcfan5are you going through all this to say you want another season of PP?

[ProfessorWoland]

37 minutes ago, Okocha10 said:

Alan Nixon needs to piss off going on about how Bassini deal is a good deal as it can help local business get paid to build a better reputation.  

 

No-one may like Bassini, BWFC fans may want this whole process to end, but there's a story here and potentially a legal challenge. I don't think Nixon is under any obligation to drop it, quite the reverse. If a journalist has a story about administrators who have a legal obligation to secure the best possible deal for creditors as a whole  turning down an offer of 100p in the pound in favour of 25p for unsecured creditors then the last thing he needs to do is drop it. 

[Zico]

32 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Flip it again...the reason we went up was down to signing a Bradford reserve who couldn't get into their first team....

And the point I'm making is that apart from Madine none of our players have gone on to become established championship or higher level have they? 

Zach Clough did well for us for that half season - now can't get in Rochdale's team. 

Lets look at the team against Sheffield United - first day of that season and see where they are now...

Mark Howard - League one

Lawrie Wilson - Non league

Mark Beevers - League one

David Wheater - Unattached

Dean Moxey - League two

Chris Taylor- Unattached

Jay Spearing - League one

Josh Vela - Unattached

Lewis Buxton - Unattached (hasn't played since playing for us)

Darren Pratley - Championship 

Gary Madine - Championship

Bench: Amos (Unattached), Proctor (League one), Derik (Segunda), Davies (retired), Trotter (USA), Woolery (league 2), Walker (league 2)

Does that list of names and their subsequent careers scream that we had a team ready made to conquer league one? Full of stars?

what has the whereabouts now of a line up from 3 years ago got to do with anything?

that squad, at that time, was stronger than most that league

when one player was sold back to the championship in January due to great form, and another went back to a PL bench due to great form, we brought in a proven league one goal scorer

Josh Vela unattached, did great for us that season too

David Wheater was head and shoulders above any other defender that season,

it doesn't matter that where they are two or three years later, they all did a job then and were more than capable - and I think most could see that were good enough to do a job

[Tonge moor green jacket]

If he has a story, then he should come out with it.

Just the usual cloak and dagger bollocks.

[bwfcfan5]

12 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

How many Fleetwood Town players from that season have done? 

Picking an arbitrary game because Clough and Ameobi weren't in the team that day is irrelevant. Banging on about how shit our players were is also irrelevant unless you can explain, by your own logic, how everyone else had better ones?

Ameobi was a signing and here for half a season.

Clough also here half a season and could not get into a struggling league one side. I'm just saying its a myth we were loaded with great players. And the start of the season is not "arbitrary" it shows what we went in with. 

As for Fleetwood's team that started the season - it included Amari Bell now in the championship at Blackburn and Conor Mclaughlin now in the championship at Millwall. Like our starting 11 two now playing regularly at a higher level. And one might argue that Pratley doesn't count since he's just been promoted back - and after leaving us was at league one level....but I'll let him go. 

[ProfessorWoland]

1 minute ago, ZicoKelly said:

what has the whereabouts now of a line up from 3 years ago got to do with anything?

that squad, at that time, was stronger than most that league

when one player was sold back to the championship in January due to great form, and another went back to a PL bench due to great form, we brought in a proven league one goal scorer

Josh Vela unattached, did great for us that season too

David Wheater was head and shoulders above any other defender that season,

it doesn't matter that where they are two or three years later, they all did a job then and were more than capable - and I think most could see that were good enough to do a job

It was in response to claims being made about the quality in that squad at that time. As such, it was a good response and the whereabouts of the players today is certainly  relevant, moreso in fact than where they'd come from. Every year PL and upper championship  clubs discard players who may have made several or even many appearances but who have been deemed surplus to requirements. 

They maintain some status from their origin, but often that's not merited and they are either diminished due  to injury, were never that good and have been worked out by opposing players or have simply failed to kick on when expected. In these players case the fact that virtually none of them managed to maintain a career at the same level could tell us something about the actual quality they possessed. 

[Okocha10]

@ProfessorWoland 

3 minutes ago, ProfessorWoland said:

 

No-one may like Bassini, BWFC fans may want this whole process to end, but there's a story here and potentially a legal challenge. I don't think Nixon is under any obligation to drop it, quite the reverse. If a journalist has a story about administrators who have a legal obligation to secure the best possible deal for creditors as a whole  turning down an offer of 100p in the pound in favour of 25p for unsecured creditors then the last thing he needs to do is drop it. 

Very much doubt he put a better off in, he just wants the media attention & make it feel like to the public he's done his very best to help Bolton to build his reputation when hes done the opposite. Haven't we heard this before though Bassini putting in a legal challenge saying he originally owned the club, whats happened with that? My feeling is he just scare off the potential owners into joining the club & won't actually do anything. Imagine him in court after being bankrupt twice will just be laughed off even with the Emerson Group.

[Farrelli]

Re. The L1 promotion season.

The whole thing turned when we got Morais as his deliveries were the best I've seen from any BWFC wide player in ten years.

Otherwise we were looking at play-offs as our form had nose dived in Jan/Feb.

All irrelevant now, just staying up will be an achievement next year.

[bwfcfan5]

8 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said:

what has the whereabouts now of a line up from 3 years ago got to do with anything?

that squad, at that time, was stronger than most that league

when one player was sold back to the championship in January due to great form, and another went back to a PL bench due to great form, we brought in a proven league one goal scorer

Josh Vela unattached, did great for us that season too

David Wheater was head and shoulders above any other defender that season,

it doesn't matter that where they are two or three years later, they all did a job then and were more than capable - and I think most could see that were good enough to do a job

You're saying that cos some played Premiership football 5 years before it is relevant. I'm saying that looking where the players ended up a few years on is more relevant because it shows the potential they had whilst here. 

You cannot hand on heart say that we were chock full of obvious talent. We made some good signings to add to the squad. But overall we had a team of league one level players and it shows by the fact that is where most of them are now at best. 

 

 

[HomerJay]

Just now, Farrelli said:

Re. The L1 promotion season.

The whole thing turned when we got Morais as his deliveries were the best I've seen from any BWFC wide player in ten years.

Otherwise we were looking at play-offs as our form had nose dived in Jan/Feb.

All irrelevant now, just staying up will be an achievement next year.

and morais was no superstar. certainly at anything higher than league one. finding players who can do a job should be relatively easily for a a club of our stature.

it purely down the new owners selling the dream to new players.

[wakey]

Bassini's a fantasist.

No problem with Nixon following a story that - if true - would be interesting. But for balance he should be pointing out that nowt else Bassini has claimed previously has been demonstably true and plenty has been demonstrably bollocks.

I'll draft Nixon's next tweet for him.

"bassini's claims intersting if true. But almost certainly bollocks".

[Zico]

1 minute ago, ProfessorWoland said:

It was in response to claims being made about the quality in that squad at that time. As such, it was a good response and the whereabouts of the players today is certainly  relevant, moreso in fact than where they'd come from. Every year PL and upper championship  clubs discard players who may have made several or even many appearances but who have been deemed surplus to requirements. 

They maintain some status from their origin, but often that's not merited and they are either diminished due  to injury, were never that good and have been worked out by opposing players or have simply failed to kick on when expected. In these players case the fact that virtually none of them managed to maintain a career at the same level could tell us something about the actual quality they possessed. 

the claim was that collectively the squad was good enough to go up  - great, superb, whatever - plenty good enough

and they did

with a manager who knew his way around the division, and left his previous club because we were a better bet 

the claims are backed up by the end result

the counter arguement of where the squad plys is trade now is irrelevant

[bwfcfan5]

Nixon's stuff strikes me as some local businesses disgruntled at missing out on some cash looking to cause trouble to try and get Football Ventures to pay up more....the timing of it...everything is classic....threaten legal action....pretend you have "an honest motive"...use a big mouth like Bassini to ensure its in public domain....go to national press....

If there were local businesses serious about running club with real money they'd have bought it a long long time ago. 

 

[Zico]

8 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

You're saying that cos some played Premiership football 5 years before it is relevant. I'm saying that looking where the players ended up a few years on is more relevant because it shows the potential they had whilst here. 

You cannot hand on heart say that we were chock full of obvious talent. We made some good signings to add to the squad. But overall we had a team of league one level players and it shows by the fact that is where most of them are now at best. 

 

 

I said it at the time, and I still say it now - the squad was good enough to get promoted

and what happened after is irrelevant because they got promoted

looking at what they'd done previously was the best assessment of the relative ability / experience / etc of that squad v all the others in the division

even if you want to call them league one players, on paper and as it turns out in reality, they were collectively amongst the better ones

Edited July 1, 2019 by ZicoKelly

[wakey]

Re Parkinson, his achievements in the first two seasons were at least acceptable, as was his record with Bradford. Last year was a write off, but managing any group of people in any scenario where there are significant underlying issues is phenomenally difficult, and probably moreso in a sporting scenario where you need to get the best out of people week in week out.

On that basis, I'd say much of the criticism of his ability is harsh. There will be plenty of managers we could have had (including the current Celtic manager) who'd probably fare much worse.

That said, the football is turgid and there seems little hope that it will improve under the current manager if he stays even if he is relatively successful (whatever 'relatively successful' looks like these days.

Once you've lost hope that things will get better, it's probably time for a change. Even accepting that change will not necessarily lead to improvement. Thanks Phil, but time for a fresh start.

[Okocha10]

10 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Nixon's stuff strikes me as some local businesses disgruntled at missing out on some cash looking to cause trouble to try and get Football Ventures to pay up more....the timing of it...everything is classic....threaten legal action....pretend you have "an honest motive"...use a big mouth like Bassini to ensure its in public domain....go to national press....

If there were local businesses serious about running club with real money they'd have bought it a long long time ago. 

 

Bang on reckon your accurate with this.

[darrener]

9 minutes ago, wakey said:

Re Parkinson, his achievements in the first two seasons were at least acceptable, as was his record with Bradford. Last year was a write off, but managing any group of people in any scenario where there are significant underlying issues is phenomenally difficult, and probably moreso in a sporting scenario where you need to get the best out of people week in week out.

On that basis, I'd say much of the criticism of his ability is harsh. There will be plenty of managers we could have had (including the current Celtic manager) who'd probably fare much worse.

That said, the football is turgid and there seems little hope that it will improve under the current manager if he stays even if he is relatively successful (whatever 'relatively successful' looks like these days.

Once you've lost hope that things will get better, it's probably time for a change. Even accepting that change will not necessarily lead to improvement. Thanks Phil, but time for a fresh start.

The bottom line is whatever parkinsons done in the past if he's still here next season very few people will be there to see it. 

[Tombwfc]

19 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Ameobi was a signing and here for half a season.

Clough also here half a season and could not get into a struggling league one side. I'm just saying its a myth we were loaded with great players. And the start of the season is not "arbitrary" it shows what we went in with. 

As for Fleetwood's team that started the season - it included Amari Bell now in the championship at Blackburn and Conor Mclaughlin now in the championship at Millwall. Like our starting 11 two now playing regularly at a higher level. And one might argue that Pratley doesn't count since he's just been promoted back - and after leaving us was at league one level....but I'll let him go. 

 

You're being blinded by looking at the failings of our players and not putting everyone else's up to the same scrutiny.

If Fleetwood Town's team from that year contained £8m+ of attackers, had a significantly higher wage bill and four currently at Championship clubs next year... you'd be using all of that as reasons why Parky performed miracles to finish above them.

Instead you're now arguing yourself in circles trying to make out that having a full-back now at Blackburn (Conor McLoughlin is now unattached meaning he was shite all along, as per your previous comments) means they were just as good as us.

Worldbeaters and great players they were not, but you can only compare them to what they were up against. Ours were better that season, had had better careers before then and played at a higher level afterwards. They were better players, it couldn't be simpler.

[ProfessorWoland]

13 minutes ago, wakey said:

Re Parkinson, his achievements in the first two seasons were at least acceptable, as was his record with Bradford. Last year was a write off, but managing any group of people in any scenario where there are significant underlying issues is phenomenally difficult, and probably moreso in a sporting scenario where you need to get the best out of people week in week out.

On that basis, I'd say much of the criticism of his ability is harsh. There will be plenty of managers we could have had (including the current Celtic manager) who'd probably fare much worse.

That said, the football is turgid and there seems little hope that it will improve under the current manager if he stays even if he is relatively successful (whatever 'relatively successful' looks like these days.

Once you've lost hope that things will get better, it's probably time for a change. Even accepting that change will not necessarily lead to improvement. Thanks Phil, but time for a fresh start.

That's a fair assessment and close to how I feel.