Mounts Kipper Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: You’d assume that we could pay the bills (including 5 pro players) if we were to sell say 5k season tickets It’s a chicken and egg situation but it won’t get any easier if we don’t start taking money through the till FV got to decide if they want the club first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: You’d assume that we could pay the bills (including 5 pro players) if we were to sell say 5k season tickets It’s a chicken and egg situation but it won’t get any easier if we don’t start taking money through the till Admins can't sell season tickets for a business that is insolvent. That's the bottom line. They can't sell tickets whereby in a month there is nothing left in the business. In essence the football club is not really trading. Because its the summer this has been ok - but it will need to trade soon. Hence why FV will have to decide probably in the next few days whether they are getting this done or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Admins can't sell season tickets for a business that is insolvent. That's the bottom line. They can't sell tickets whereby in a month there is nothing left in the business. In essence the football club is not really trading. Because its the summer this has been ok - but it will need to trade soon. Hence why FV will have to decide probably in the next few days whether they are getting this done or not. Why are we insolvent though? I understand why last season, our wage bill at circa £700k a month was too big, we lost money all the time With only 5 senior players left on the books our wage bill should be significantly smaller, let’s say £150k a month for arguments sake The only thing that now makes us insolvent is the fact that we aren’t bringing any ticket money in, likewise if we don’t fulfil our fixtures then we won’t get our money from the EFL either I’m sure the administrators have good reason for not selling tickets, but on the face of it we should be able to trade / operate solvently, even if we have to make the squad up with lads on £500 a week Edited July 17, 2019 by birch-chorley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, birch-chorley said: Why are we insolvent though? I understand why last season, our wage bill at circa £700k a month was too big, we lost money all the time With only 5 senior players left on the books our wage bill should be significantly smaller, let’s say £150k a month for arguments sake The only thing that now makes us insolvent is the fact that we aren’t bringing any ticket money in, likewise if we don’t fulfil our fixtures then we won’t get our money from the EFL either I’m sure the administrators have good reason for not selling tickets, but on the face of it we should be able to trade solvently, even if we have to make the squad up with lads on £500 a week I suspect because you've got X months of first team player wages to pay - and haven't the money to fulfill it. The 1M non-refundable deposit from FV was required to run the club on even the skeleton basis it operated on over summer. Now it might be different should the administrators sell season tickets and accept the EFL structural payment. But to do so they would have to guarantee the club's financial security through the season and I suspect they cannot. Not without further investment. And that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I guess it’s not just about being operationally solvent through the season, which should be relatively straight forward as we are only starting with 5 senior players (assuming our league 1 revenue will be Similar if not slightly smaller than our last season in league 1) To keep the ‘golden share’ and be allowed to compete in League 1, 25% of unsecured credit needs to be paid, so we need circa £3m to put the old company to bed before we can kick a football with the new company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okocha10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Alan Fudson saying that FV have been in touch with the PFA for a potential loan, wonder if that's to cover the players wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Okocha10 said: Alan Fudson saying that FV have been in touch with the PFA for a potential loan, wonder if that's to cover the players wages? If this true then the information that they have shown the admin proof of funds is bollocks. Either FV put up or shut up and fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Biggish Dave Posted July 17, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2019 FV don't own the club so they are not allowed to pay the players. We had this with the Brentford games - even though Bassini didn't have the money anyway. The money will be to pay players who must be struggling by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breightmet Boy Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: If this true then the information that they have shown the admin proof of funds is bollocks. Either FV put up or shut up and fuck off. Now that might not be very good for anybody associated with us, we would be well and truly up shit creek without a paddle I should imagine as its a bit late for someone to start all this process again and get it done quick enough to get players in and sorted before kick off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, birch-chorley said: Why are we insolvent though? I understand why last season, our wage bill at circa £700k a month was too big, we lost money all the time With only 5 senior players left on the books our wage bill should be significantly smaller, let’s say £150k a month for arguments sake The only thing that now makes us insolvent is the fact that we aren’t bringing any ticket money in, likewise if we don’t fulfil our fixtures then we won’t get our money from the EFL either I’m sure the administrators have good reason for not selling tickets, but on the face of it we should be able to trade / operate solvently, even if we have to make the squad up with lads on £500 a week I can only assume that, in common with the chairman of the Supporters Trust, you haven't bothered to read BWFC's financial results the last time it was in League 1. If you had, you might have noticed that the operating costs of the club exceeded its income before it spent a penny on players or staff wages. As matchday income is likely to be significantly less this time round, any new owners are going to have to be ready to stump up the whole, or virtually the whole, of the entire wage bill from their own coffers. Little wonder that FV pulled back from taking on the entire debt bill as well or that funding the takeover is proving difficult. Can I suggest that anyone genuinely interested read at least pages 4 and 5 of the 2017 BL Group accounts, available FOC here. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00335699/filing-history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okocha10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: If this true then the information that they have shown the admin proof of funds is bollocks. Either FV put up or shut up and fuck off. I'm with you with that, either buy the fucking club or not, no time for pissing about now, it's vital a decision is made soon. Surely FV buying the club would put off many who want the hotel & give them another massive foot hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfc2003 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: If this true then the information that they have shown the admin proof of funds is bollocks. Either FV put up or shut up and fuck off. Alan Fudson is a parody account of Nixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Banks Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 No doubt we will not be allowed to start the season unless funding is in place to run the club. So deal has to be sorted P.D.Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Okocha10 said: I'm with you with that, either buy the fucking club or not, no time for pissing about now, it's vital a decision is made soon. Surely FV buying the club would put off many who want the hotel & give them another massive foot hold. THEY’RE NOT WALKING INTO A FUCKING SHOP AND BUYING A PACKET OF CRISPS!! ”Buy the fucking club or not” - do you honestly think they have spent all this time, racked up all the associated costs (they’ll have advisor costs coming out of their ears) and stuck a £1m unrefundable amount down but are now just sat there in their armchairs, twiddling their thumbs wondering whether to actually buy us or not? ”No time for pissing about” - I presume you have no idea how long these things take, usually months and months, not a matter of weeks which is where we currently are. Obviously everybody wants it done as soon as possible (myself included), but they will be the ones that want it the most. The sooner they can get in, the sooner they can work on ensuring this season isn’t a write off and therefore protect their investment. It’s pretty clear that they are making whatever football decisions they can in the background, without actually owning the thing. “Surely FV buying the club would put off many who want the hotel” - we don’t even know that they want the hotel. They might have no interest at all for all we know, but there are likely to be a lot of legal issues with how the hotel trades with the football club going forward, and most likely how this intercompany loan that was important enough to be highlighted in the admin’s statement is treated. As for the PFA loan. 1) It’s Nixon so could be complete bullshit. 2) It in no way shows that FV don’t have money, what it more likely means is that they don’t want to put more money into something that they don’t yet own (would you?) and they know that an option is that the PFA can pay our 6 players to tie them over, with the loan to be repaid once they have signed on the dotted line. Sensible if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okocha10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, bwfc2003 said: Alan Fudson is a parody account of Nixon Alan Nixon has actually put that comment regards to PFA Loan not the fake account. He has also made a comment now saying the Bolton Council are now helping FV to get a deal done, supposedly there is a massive rush to the deal through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Okocha10 said: Alan Nixon has actually put that comment regards to PFA Loan not the fake account. He has also made a comment now saying the Bolton Council are now helping FV to get a deal done, supposedly there is a massive rush to the deal through. Your first mistake is taking what Nixon says as gospel. Your second is thinking he has a clue about the process of the administration. He's said so much demonstrable nonsense on the subject that I think he's best ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter HomerJay Posted July 17, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Okocha10 said: I'm with you with that, either buy the fucking club or not, no time for pissing about now, it's vital a decision is made soon. Surely FV buying the club would put off many who want the hotel & give them another massive foot hold. why the fuck would they put any money in yet? if the deal collapses theyd lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, HomerJay said: why the fuck would they put any money in yet? if the deal collapses theyd lose it. And given they'd have to guarantee a PFA loan why can't Football Ventures just loan the money to the club directly? It doesn't make sense....unless its a request from players for individual emergency loans as they've not been paid for months. Which is different. And more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Chirs Dawson is taking his car sticker off today. Meanwhile Jay Jay 3465 wants to know why someone who doesn’t own the club can’t pay the wages of some people who don’t work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, gonzo said: Chirs Dawson is taking his car sticker off today. Meanwhile Jay Jay 3465 wants to know why someone who doesn’t own the club can’t pay the wages of some people who don’t work for them. Well there's the next BN headline "Chris takes sticker off his car - we need answers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okocha10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Your first mistake is taking what Nixon says as gospel. Your second is thinking he has a clue about the process of the administration. He's said so much demonstrable nonsense on the subject that I think he's best ignored. I know that mate that's why I put Alan Fudson, i'm not believing it in gospel the fact is the players are due to paid at the end of month & they haven't been paid since god knows when, i'm guessing the bit about the PFA will be true. Edited July 17, 2019 by Okocha10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Okocha10 said: I know that mate that's why I put Alan Fudson, i'm not believing it in gospel the fact is the players are due to paid at the end of month & they have been paid since god knows when, i'm guessing the bit about the PFA will be true. The deal needs to complete before the start of the season. We all know this. Otherwise the club cannot operate. So the latest is 1st/2nd August. Realistically earlier than that to allow players to be paid in full in order for their participation and registration for game 1. I don't think a PFA loan will be for anything other than perhaps immediate payment to younger, lower paid players who perhaps are in the shit without their wages for months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okocha10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The deal needs to complete before the start of the season. We all know this. Otherwise the club cannot operate. So the latest is 1st/2nd August. Realistically earlier than that to allow players to be paid in full in order for their participation and registration for game 1. I don't think a PFA loan will be for anything other than perhaps immediate payment to younger, lower paid players who perhaps are in the shit without their wages for months.... You maybe right, i'm sure the younger players are being paid though. I think it will be FV back up plan to make sure the players who are contracted at the club do remain next month in August with the PFA loan & as they are unable to with club being in admin, then hopefully pay it back when the take control of the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Okocha10 said: You maybe right, i'm sure the younger players are being paid though. I think it will be FV back up plan to make sure the players who are contracted at the club do remain next month in August with the PFA loan & as they are unable to with club being in admin, then hopefully pay it back when the take control of the club The younger players aren't being paid. They were given some wages so they could partake in the friendly. The players would need full payment to ensure they do not hand in their notice. And no chance in hell the PFA will pay outstanding wages back to March....no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okocha10 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Eddie said: THEY’RE NOT WALKING INTO A FUCKING SHOP AND BUYING A PACKET OF CRISPS!! ”Buy the fucking club or not” - do you honestly think they have spent all this time, racked up all the associated costs (they’ll have advisor costs coming out of their ears) and stuck a £1m unrefundable amount down but are now just sat there in their armchairs, twiddling their thumbs wondering whether to actually buy us or not? ”No time for pissing about” - I presume you have no idea how long these things take, usually months and months, not a matter of weeks which is where we currently are. Obviously everybody wants it done as soon as possible (myself included), but they will be the ones that want it the most. The sooner they can get in, the sooner they can work on ensuring this season isn’t a write off and therefore protect their investment. It’s pretty clear that they are making whatever football decisions they can in the background, without actually owning the thing. “Surely FV buying the club would put off many who want the hotel” - we don’t even know that they want the hotel. They might have no interest at all for all we know, but there are likely to be a lot of legal issues with how the hotel trades with the football club going forward, and most likely how this intercompany loan that was important enough to be highlighted in the admin’s statement is treated. As for the PFA loan. 1) It’s Nixon so could be complete bullshit. 2) It in no way shows that FV don’t have money, what it more likely means is that they don’t want to put more money into something that they don’t yet own (would you?) and they know that an option is that the PFA can pay our 6 players to tie them over, with the loan to be repaid once they have signed on the dotted line. Sensible if you ask me. Come on mate I know it's not as easy as just buying a packet of crisps haha, the hotel is the remaining factor now for FV been stated by a numerous of people. Never stated FV don't have the money, just the fact it's seems they was awaiting a decision on the hotel, for me if they buy the club there would be massive pressure on the other administrator to sell the hotel to them, just my opinion though! Edited July 17, 2019 by Okocha10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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