Ani Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Way I see it is Ken knows either the thing is sold - or goes into admin either voluntarily or forced by HMRC..... I think that is the bottom line now. 20th March - court date - if deal not done by then.... Either way I don't see him putting his own money in now. if he is getting more money from the sales than he would from administrators he might to make the deal happen. But the sooner this seemingly endless cycle is over the better for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passmosster Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The court won't sanction a winding up order if the takeover is in process. As usual, HMRC are wasting everyone's time. Years ago I was in a similar situation and explained to them what was happening. They held off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 “The good name of this proud football club dragged through the mud yet again” Jesus Christ Id sell my soul to never see that in the written word ever again. Dramatic bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, passmosster said: The court won't sanction a winding up order if the takeover is in process. As usual, HMRC are wasting everyone's time. Years ago I was in a similar situation and explained to them what was happening. They held off. Indeed. But by the time that is in front of a court the takeover will have happened or collapsed or at the very least be in considerable doubt..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, gonzo said: FFS - buyers are in process of due diligence. So they will be aware there is no cash in the business to settle wages. How does Iles know this hasn't been factored into the negotiation? If the plan was to rush through the deal before wages then the new owners would have "taken the hit" anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 It's Ken's deal or no deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySanchez Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Been charged with the fracas at Leeds which led to PP being sent to the stand Probably end up with a fine. Wonder if ken will offer to pay with a cheque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombwfc Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, gonzo said: It’s the age old question but what do people ken is actually doing with the players wages? Down the casino or sat fanning himself with them in Monaco? Theres a reason Payment’s are late. There’s always been a reason. Theft isn’t one of them. 650k might go a fair way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter HomerJay Posted February 28, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, passmosster said: The court won't sanction a winding up order if the takeover is in process. As usual, HMRC are wasting everyone's time. Years ago I was in a similar situation and explained to them what was happening. They held off. Yup. HMRC are just bullies. They will generally only chase people the have a chance of getting money from. You can talk them round like any other creditor within reason. Just need to keep them on your side best you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, gonzo said: “The good name of this proud football club dragged through the mud yet again” Jesus Christ Id sell my soul to never see that in the written word ever again. Dramatic bastards. The EFL had 'blood on their hands' when we sent back a 1 in 17 bag 'o' biz back from whence he came and our beloved chairman cocked a snook at some yoghurt-weaving, redundancy-happy, deadbeat dad stinky hippy twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, HomerJay said: Yup. HMRC are just bullies. They will generally only chase people the have a chance of getting money from. You can talk them round like any other creditor within reason. Just need to keep them on your side best you can. Tell 'em to fuck off, what's honestly the worst they can do? Take your telly and washing machine? Whoop-di-do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted February 28, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, ZicoKelly said: probably but if for whatever reason the takeover doesn't happen, or drags on a few weeks, should it be his responsbility to pay them? I'd say so, it's still his club It wouldn't surprise me if the next stumbling block comes because he's told the new buyers to pay this month's wages the sooner this fucking saga ends, the better Agree entirely. His previous ramblings don't fill me with great confidence. Just hope it gets over the line quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, gonzo said: How about delayng player wages payment until due diligence is complete and the money in place? One weeks delay would delay the tax on the wages by five weeks and the tax will, as ever, be a big chunk of it. I'm sure Ken's thought of that but he does need to get the deal over the line. Big problems if he can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 36 minutes ago, Youri McAnespie said: The EFL had 'blood on their hands' when we sent back a 1 in 17 bag 'o' biz back from whence he came and our beloved chairman cocked a snook at some yoghurt-weaving, redundancy-happy, deadbeat dad stinky hippy twat. You missed out the tax-doidging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: How about delayng player wages payment until due diligence is complete and the money in place? One weeks delay would delay the tax on the wages by five weeks and the tax will, as ever, be a big chunk of it. I'm sure Ken's thought of that but he does need to get the deal over the line. Big problems if he can't I'm sure that is the plan. But of course is reliant on new owners accepting the new debt - and Iles seems to be suggesting they will not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) You missed out the tax-doidging . What tax-doidging? 😉 Edited February 28, 2019 by Youri McAnespie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebwfc Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Im hoping this is a big drama about fuck all. Surely they haven't been going through all these talks and then suddenly thought "fuck, forgot we have to pay everyone at the end of Feb" Surely they will have been worded up about it and told to be quiet about it because it will all be sorted with the sale. Problem will only be a real one if it falls through. Its give Iles something to get all worked up about and in turn all his twitter drones. Half of them reacting with more venom and anger than I think would be acceptable if their own wages were gonna be a bit late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 51 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: I'm sure that is the plan. But of course is reliant on new owners accepting the new debt - and Iles seems to be suggesting they will not.... Why would Iles have any insight into what is happening ? Ken wont be telling him anything and new buyers will have been warned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ani said: Why would Iles have any insight into what is happening ? Ken wont be telling him anything and new buyers will have been warned off. God knows. Probably getting information from Holdsworth...seems to be his most reliable (only) source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Youri McAnespie said: What tax-doidging? 😉 You get your taxpayer subsidised company to buy back 20 of your £0.01shares for £7million and lo and behold you've avoided income tax and national insurance on seven million quid. You'll find it in notes 17,18 & 24 of Ecotricity Group's 2015 accounts. is it legal? I'm afraid it is. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03521776/filing-history?page=2 Dale (I don't consider I was married other than I signed a piece of paper) Vince. Edited February 28, 2019 by Chris Custodiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said: I'm sure that is the plan. But of course is reliant on new owners accepting the new debt - and Iles seems to be suggesting they will not.... The ‘new debt’ will get deducted from the asking price so doesn’t make a difference to the buyer. Lets say they’ve agreed £27m and there’s £22m net debt in the business to keep it simple. That means that £5m is actually paid by the buyers as cash to Ken (there’s a working cap adjustment as well but it’s unlikely to move the dial). So say Ken finds £1m to put into the business to pay this months wages, the clubs debt is now £23m as it now also owes Ken £1m. In very simple terms Ken would now get £4m from the sale, but as he is a creditor (for the £1m loan) he would also be paid out from the sale proceeds. The bidder pays the same and Ken receives the same, it’s just structured slightly differently. The only catch could be the unpaid tax on the wages but then that is likely to be considered as normal working capital unless there is more than one months PAYE/NI left to pay (at which point there would be another adjustment to the price). None of this will surprise any of the parties included in the process, although there is an obvious sticking point as to where the cash for the wages comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, Eddie said: The ‘new debt’ will get deducted from the asking price so doesn’t make a difference to the buyer. Lets say they’ve agreed £27m and there’s £22m net debt in the business to keep it simple. That means that £5m is actually paid by the buyers as cash to Ken (there’s a working cap adjustment as well but it’s unlikely to move the dial). So say Ken finds £1m to put into the business to pay this months wages, the clubs debt is now £23m as it now also owes Ken £1m. In very simple terms Ken would now get £4m from the sale, but as he is a creditor (for the £1m loan) he would also be paid out from the sale proceeds. The bidder pays the same and Ken receives the same, it’s just structured slightly differently. The only catch could be the unpaid tax on the wages but then that is likely to be considered as normal working capital unless there is more than one months PAYE/NI left to pay (at which point there would be another adjustment to the price). None of this will surprise any of the parties included in the process, although there is an obvious sticking point as to where the cash for the wages comes from. Yes - the issue being - Ken sticking £1M into a business he knows could go pop if the deal falls through - I suspect if that is where it comes to its a very large sticking point - and KA would be looking for some legal assurances that would likely hold the deal up considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Tombwfc said: 650k might go a fair way... Not when you've got tax and expenses to find and you've spent £472K paying off Holdsworth and keeping Blumarble at bay until Eddie came to the rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Yes - the issue being - Ken sticking £1M into a business he knows could go pop if the deal falls through - I suspect if that is where it comes to its a very large sticking point - and KA would be looking for some legal assurances that would likely hold the deal up considerably. I’m not sure he can look for any assurances from them. If they weren’t a thing then it’s still his business that needs to find the cash from somewhere, whether that’s an injection from him or there is money to be received in the near future I’m not sure but one way or the other it has to be sorted regardless of whether there is a transaction taking place, otherwise he loses his business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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