Eddie Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, birch-chorley said: On another note then, from looking at the accounts what do you think living within our means would look like from a playing budget perspective? I mean, strip out all the exceptional items, debt, interest etc. Using revenue from the last set of accounts (which I believe was League 1) less our overheads, roughly speaking what’s left for wages / playing budget? Is it possible to compete in League 1 or are the Premier League facilities just to expensive to run so far down the football Pyramid? Interesting one that Birch. Turnover was £15m in the last set of accounts, staff costs were £14m (including players and other staff) and it looks like EBITDA was about -£10m which means other overheads were about £11m or so, although this is difficult to really understand because there isn’t the detail in the accounts. There are all sorts of notes in the accounts that talk about reducing costs, onerous contracts etc. But if you say that turnover stays roughly similar at £15m, then make assumptions for non-player staff costs of probably about £2m and other overheads of say £6m or so now that Ken has taken an axe to anything he can then I reckon you’ve got around £5-8m to spend on players wages each year. There were 51 ‘football players’ in the last accounts which I presume includes youth team and coaches etc. so if you take £1m or so away for all the non-1st team squad then I’d say about £5m in wages for the 1st team squad might just about see us breakeven (before taking player sales and paying interest etc. Into the equation). Squad of 20 1st team pro’s that’s an average of about £4k per week with a couple of goal bonuses chucked in on top as well as employers NI and pension contributions. In summary - not very much. If we were managing to stick to something like that then all of a sudden, a sale the size of Madine pays your whole first team squad wages for a season!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted March 4, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Spider said: Hes clearly out of his depth and the club is now back to square one. see I'm not sure I think he knows what he's been doing since day one, he may not get the pay day he was hoping for by actually flogging the club, but if he's made money out of this whole sorry affair, then it's job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Can someone who knows how put a vote up on which has more bullshit on it. this thread or in or out? be a close call who would have thought that W ways had so many political and corporate finance officinados on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 4, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Can someone who knows how put a vote up on which has more bullshit on it. this thread or in or out? be a close call who would have thought that W ways had so many political and corporate finance officinados on it All part of the "fun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said: see I'm not sure I think he knows what he's been doing since day one, he may not get the pay day he was hoping for by actually flogging the club, but if he's made money out of this whole sorry affair, then it's job done One thing I'm doubtful about is whether Ken knew the terms of the Blumarble deal before he spent his 50P or only discovered it a day or so later. Did Holdsworth spring it on him or did he already know? Whichever way it was, it took 18 months to buy off Holdsworth and Quantuma and agree an extension deal with Blumarble. Another year would pass before it was settled, all the time resulting in unaffordable costs and hindering potential sale opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: All part of the "fun" Fun to a point 🤯 fwiw if the buyers had walked away we would have heard something . A 27m deal goes to due diligence and falls apart with staff not being paid ? If you were the buyer would you not be coming out and distancing yourself? Yet nobody but nobody knows or hears and leaks to press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 4, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2019 Personally, I'm not convinced the deal has broken down. Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Personally, I'm not convinced the deal has broken down. Yet. A predictable part of the inevitable drama perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Just now, bwfcfan5 said: A predictable part of the inevitable drama perhaps? The darkest hour is just before dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Eddie said: In summary - not very much. If we were managing to stick to something like that then all of a sudden, a sale the size of Madine pays your whole first team squad wages for a season!! I’d fancy our chances of getting out of league 1 with a £5m playing budget Just the small matter of getting straight first of all then before we can look at a plan that has us living within our means Even more baffling how Ken saw fit to to offer £1m for the Forest Green lad given where we are now just 6 months on Edited March 4, 2019 by birch-chorley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Fun to a point 🤯 fwiw if the buyers had walked away we would have heard something . A 27m deal goes to due diligence and falls apart with staff not being paid ? If you were the buyer would you not be coming out and distancing yourself? Yet nobody but nobody knows or hears and leaks to press? There are ‘leaks’ quoted in this thread. No details will come out from either side until process is complete. They will find ‘stuff’ the discussion is then is the stuff material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nantwichwhite Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Maybe the deal is on the table along with two others but negotiations are not with Ken anymore, as suggested in previous posts. Ken has known that the end of February was a critical milestone and has tried to squeeze a deal through whilst he still has control of the club. It is obvious that bills have not been paid for a few weeks now and that is why the bank account is frozen, I may stand corrected but is it illegal to still take customers money if you are technically insolvent that explains the season tickets direct debits. What ever happens it seems evident that for any purchaser there is a lot of debt to clear and it is increasing by the day!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyoneawalker Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 43 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Not true, I backed Ken while showing concern about his motives and how they might play out and his end game, it is still possible that everything will fall in place, but its looking unlikely. Traf actually seemed to take a strong Pro Ken and that seemed to also be a reaction to an anti Trust stance, which is fair enough I just felt the pro ken anti trust was over played by quite a few on here. Like I say water under the bridge, time for fans to stick together and hope this fantastic football club can pull through, I am sure it will. COYWM. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ani said: There are ‘leaks’ quoted in this thread. No details will come out from either side until process is complete. They will find ‘stuff’ the discussion is then is the stuff material. Correct. I’m saying if they have walked away it’s complete and we would have heard no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakey Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Steejay said: 1 hour ago, DirtySanchez said: Ken has crabs Caught from the players' wives obvs... I heard that rumour too. Training ground closed for de-lousing. ITK, FACT etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted March 4, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Mr Grey said: We are fans, it's not up to us to offer a viable alternative or solution. Yet just about every bugger thinks, like you, that it isn't up to the fans to offer viable alternatives but still want an opinion on whether he should stay or go; which, for the record, also isn't up to us so we may as well lock this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyoneawalker Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, nantwichwhite said: Maybe the deal is on the table along with two others but negotiations are not with Ken anymore, as suggested in previous posts. Ken has known that the end of February was a critical milestone and has tried to squeeze a deal through whilst he still has control of the club. It is obvious that bills have not been paid for a few weeks now and that is why the bank account is frozen, I may stand corrected but is it illegal to still take customers money if you are technically insolvent that explains the season tickets direct debits. What ever happens it seems evident that for any purchaser there is a lot of debt to clear and it is increasing by the day!!!! I think it’s illegal to continue to trade whilst knowingly insolvent - Could be the answer ie ken covering his bases in case deal falls through - makes sense and potentially deeper shit than we were in 3 year ago that’s a very very real stance to take. from here it’s bought out of admin most likely or good night god bless less likely Edited March 4, 2019 by onlyoneawalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted March 4, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: One thing I'm doubtful about is whether Ken knew the terms of the Blumarble deal before he spent his 50P or only discovered it a day or so later. Did Holdsworth spring it on him or did he already know? Whichever way it was, it took 18 months to buy off Holdsworth and Quantuma and agree an extension deal with Blumarble. Another year would pass before it was settled, all the time resulting in unaffordable costs and hindering potential sale opportunities. another thing to remember is that for some time the club wasn't apparently not for sale, for whatever reason https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/october/club-statement/ "the Chairman has today confirmed that any ongoing discussions with investors will be terminated with immediate effect and that no further expressions of interest will be entertained for the foreseeable future" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, onlyoneawalker said: I think it’s illegal to continue to trade whilst knowingly insolvent - Could be the answer ie ken covering his bases in case deal falls through - makes sense and potentially deeper shit than we were in 3 year ago that’s a very very real stance to take. from here it’s bought out of admin most likely or good night god bless less likely I think it’s illegal if you continue to take money knowing that you cannot fulfil your part of the transaction In this case you’d think we could continue to take the DD’s as long as we are still planning on playing the remaining football matches and letting season ticket holders in to take their seats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr Grey said: I bet the ST are frothing at the moment, just my opinion though 😊 At any time the door has opened for the ST to step in or provide assistance their arses have gone. No different this time that whole set up is a sham and a power trip for egomaniacs who haven’t got the backing, bollocks, know how or financial clout to do anything other than rant over the internet Less use than our fucking front men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said: another thing to remember is that for some time the club wasn't apparently not for sale, for whatever reason https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2017/october/club-statement/ "the Chairman has today confirmed that any ongoing discussions with investors will be terminated with immediate effect and that no further expressions of interest will be entertained for the foreseeable future" Its not at all unknown for clubs to put out statements that are not exactly true. e.g. votes of confidence in a manager days before he gets the sack. I'd view with considerable scepticism any statement, including this one, that the club wasn't for sale. It would make no sense whatsoever except as a tactic to deter timewasters and avoid the kind of speculation and abuse referred to in the statement. Edited March 4, 2019 by Chris Custodiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySanchez Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, MickyD said: Yet just about every bugger thinks, like you, that it isn't up to the fans to offer viable alternatives but still want an opinion on whether he should stay or go; which, for the record, also isn't up to us so we may as well lock this thread. If i had a shit boss at work i'd have an opinion about their capability Maybe have a word others in management about their capability, highlighting faults etc Who the replacement is non of my business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted March 4, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mr Grey said: Fair point, but that's what opinions are, just opinions, and we have them about anything to do with life and what's going on in the world. In this situation, which in my OPINION is absolutly fucking shit, there's fuck all we can do, our opinions don't matter to KA, we can't change anything. I bet the ST are frothing at the moment, just my opinion though 😊 It's just everyone's opinion; that was my point. Nothing said on here will lead to a change in the boardroom. There are those, however, who would rather KA is replaced only once the viable alternative is appointed and there are those who just want KA out. One lot realise leaving the ship without a rudder would be the worst possible scenario whilst the others are so brain dead they haven't given much thought to what happens once he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted March 4, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Its not at all unknown for clubs to put out statements that are not exactly true. e.g. votes of confidence in a manager days before he gets the sack. I'd view with considerable scepticism any statement, including this one, that the club wasn't for sale. It would make no sense whatsoever except as a tactic to deter timewasters and avoid the kind of speculation and abuse referred to in the statement. only thing I can think is that after a player sale and promotion that saw increased tv revenue and crowds, and another upcoming transfer window, he's thought "I'm having some of this, no need to sell right now" but then why produce the brochure that got leaked who knows, scepticism has always been the best policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, Mr Grey said: Hope you are correct, as for our front 2?, trade descriptions and all that. 'front 2' would fail advertising standards by exaggerating the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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