Howardroark Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, bwfcfan5 said: Yep - all penalties associated with admin - including points fine and transfer ban for 2 years would apply to a pre-pack.... Transfer ban would be appealed for mitigating circumstances due to new ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Relegation won't be confirmed before the cut-off this month whereby points deduction apply for the next season. I use ‘confirmed’ in the loosest sense possible.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySanchez Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, HomerJay said: how much are the ST bidding? They're in Tesco emptying their coppers jar into that machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 8, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Marc Iles @MarcIles 3m3 minutes ago Players have been promised by Ken Anderson that he will pay them by Monday IF a takeover is not sorted. Looks like this is going into extra time. #bwfc He's shit Even I knew this an hour ago Does he get paid to be so shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, Howardroark said: The cost of ‘resetting’ the club which is to pay off all outstanding creditors and settle charges is £28.9M. That includes Moonshift, PBP, Brett, plus unsecured etc. Moonshift won’t take control, period. A clever PE fund would acquire the business for £5M through buying the Moonshift debt and seizing control. They then arrange a pre-pack administration and settle the unsecured at discount with secured paid in full. The point I’m making is that Basran has the ability to obtain the club for £5M and then work with creditors on a staged repayment. The £28.9million sounds very specific. Can you break it down between secured and unsecured creditors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Chris Custodiet said: The £28.9million sounds very specific. Can you break it down between secured and unsecured creditors? £16M secured £12.9 unsecured (excluding players wages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter HomerJay Posted March 8, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2019 as for this tournament, have the tournament actually said why they have postponed it... ive not seen an official statement?Insert other media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 24 minutes ago, HomerJay said: how much are the ST bidding? A seven figure sum. £9/19s/11.1/2d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Howardroark said: £16M secured £12.9 unsecured (excluding players wages). So the secured is? Anderson 5.0 PBP 5.5 Warbuton 2.5 Interest & other? 3.0 What's the biggest unsecured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Transfer ban would be appealed for mitigating circumstances due to new ownership. It might be - but given admin almost always results in new ownership I'm not sure what grounds we'd have to circumvent the rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: It might be - but given admin almost always results in new ownership I'm not sure what grounds we'd have to circumvent the rules... The behaviour of KA may actually be the mitigating circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: So the secured is? Anderson 5.0 PBP 5.5 Warbuton 2.5 Interest & other? 3.0 What's the biggest unsecured? HMRC (not including any of the factoring companies as that’s quasi secure). Inner C (Burnden Leisure) owe nearer £8M to Moonshift Edited March 8, 2019 by Howardroark Addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, Spider said: He's shit Even I knew this an hour ago Does he get paid to be so shit? He was probably on lunch. We’re all invested in BWFC as fans, he’s not, he was decorating the day we could have been liquidated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Custodiet Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Howardroark said: HMRC Inner C (Burnden Leisure) owe nearer £8M to Moonshift Many thanks. Would that be £5m plus a bit of the old Moonshift debt not previously written off? Surprised at the size of the unsecured creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Steejay Posted March 8, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: He was probably on lunch. We’re all invested in BWFC as fans, he’s not, he was decorating the day we could have been liquidated. You forget that his full time job is painting & decorating ( & eating fucking hobnobs), the journo thing is a little sideline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, Spider said: He's shit Even I knew this an hour ago Does he get paid to be so shit? Probably minimum wage, to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySanchez Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: He was probably on lunch. We’re all invested in BWFC as fans, he’s not, he was decorating the day we could have been liquidated. And yet still tries to deny it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 ST should be onto this £29m is chicken feed to their investors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Many thanks. Would that be £5m plus a bit of the old Moonshift debt not previously written off? Surprised at the size of the unsecured creditors. Charges and Debentures plus interest. Unsecured includes loans against future revenue (including that secured against EFL payments) hence the high figure. Hotel costs must be considered too within that figure and ‘football’ creditors. Edited March 8, 2019 by Howardroark Updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 What I can't seem to comprehend is why anyone would want to buy us? Obviously folk do but what is their rationale? On the face of it I guess is to achieve promotion to the Premier League riches - but that won't be happening for a year or three at best - and despite how much the new owners chuck at it, promotion isn't guaranteed. Let us say for argument sake we get taken over very shortly by new owners but relegation to the third tier is inevitable. The new owners would need to fund the club for the remainder of this season, the financial year ending at the end of July, so the running costs for wages alone at £600k per month would be £3 million. Depending how the new owners purchases the club they would have to pay something for it and deal with at least some of the outstanding creditors (I mean the likes of James and Warburton who have deferred their settlement of their secured loans at least once already). Again for argument sake let us say this is done by the means suggested by Howardroark (hello to the forum btw) which seems to involve the least up front costs to the purchaser of £5 million (plus of course hidden costs such as legal fees, etc). So the new owners are in for £8 million and start next season at third tier level - and a drop of something like £7 million in revenue from being in the Championship. I would suggest that to get promoted back at the first opportunity their would be a need to have a quality of squad commensurate with winning promotion and so a wage bill to enable that to be achieved. Our wage bill is reportedly £600kpm (including Amos) so at a guess I suggest that would probably be around £450/500k per month or £5.4/6millon pa. (let's say £5.5 million as a sum to work with). Let's also think there would be a transfer fund also, shall we say £3 million perhaps - subject to any embargo placed upon us. Anderson claimed a year or so ago that the club would lose £6 million last season (it seemed to more or less breakeven due to the Madine sale) and breakeven this season - that of course is with the £7m premium of being in the Championship which will be lost - so I guess there will be a shortfall of some size for the new owners to find next season (bare in mind we ran an operational loss when we were promoted a couple of seasons back although we had a much higher wage bill at the time. Let say the new owners need to find another £2 million to keep the club afloat next season. So just to get promoted first time to where we are now would cost them £13 million (£5m purchase, £3m wages this season as clearly there is nothing left in the pot until season end, £3m transfers, £2 million trading loss in the third tier) and that doesn't include paying off creditors such as James and Warburton). Then if we really went for promotion the costs would really rocket for transfer purchases, increased wages and subsequent trading losses - and with no guarantee of promotion. If we don't go up and go for it again - but if we fail - then we hit the buffers with FFP regulations and it's consequences. And if we do go up then what will it cost to simply stop there - and the consequences if we don't? Just seems a really crappy business plan to me unless you've got millions to piss away. Obviously some folk do. The only other thought I had business wise was if there was perhaps a plan to sell off assets such as the Hotel and maybe even the ground itself (the ACV ultimately would not stop such a thing)? Maybe there are other ways I've not thought of? Anyway better to live for another day and see what pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Carter Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sluffy said: What I can't seem to comprehend is why anyone would want to buy us? Obviously folk do but what is their rationale? On the face of it I guess is to achieve promotion to the Premier League riches - but that won't be happening for a year or three at best - and despite how much the new owners chuck at it, promotion isn't guaranteed. Let us say for argument sake we get taken over very shortly by new owners but relegation to the third tier is inevitable. The new owners would need to fund the club for the remainder of this season, the financial year ending at the end of July, so the running costs for wages alone at £600k per month would be £3 million. Depending how the new owners purchases the club they would have to pay something for it and deal with at least some of the outstanding creditors (I mean the likes of James and Warburton who have deferred their settlement of their secured loans at least once already). Again for argument sake let us say this is done by the means suggested by Howardroark (hello to the forum btw) which seems to involve the least up front costs to the purchaser of £5 million (plus of course hidden costs such as legal fees, etc). So the new owners are in for £8 million and start next season at third tier level - and a drop of something like £7 million in revenue from being in the Championship. I would suggest that to get promoted back at the first opportunity their would be a need to have a quality of squad commensurate with winning promotion and so a wage bill to enable that to be achieved. Our wage bill is reportedly £600kpm (including Amos) so at a guess I suggest that would probably be around £450/500k per month or £5.4/6millon pa. (let's say £5.5 million as a sum to work with). Let's also think there would be a transfer fund also, shall we say £3 million perhaps - subject to any embargo placed upon us. Anderson claimed a year or so ago that the club would lose £6 million last season (it seemed to more or less breakeven due to the Madine sale) and breakeven this season - that of course is with the £7m premium of being in the Championship which will be lost - so I guess there will be a shortfall of some size for the new owners to find next season (bare in mind we ran an operational loss when we were promoted a couple of seasons back although we had a much higher wage bill at the time. Let say the new owners need to find another £2 million to keep the club afloat next season. So just to get promoted first time to where we are now would cost them £13 million (£5m purchase, £3m wages this season as clearly there is nothing left in the pot until season end, £3m transfers, £2 million trading loss in the third tier) and that doesn't include paying off creditors such as James and Warburton). Then if we really went for promotion the costs would really rocket for transfer purchases, increased wages and subsequent trading losses - and with no guarantee of promotion. If we don't go up and go for it again - but if we fail - then we hit the buffers with FFP regulations and it's consequences. And if we do go up then what will it cost to simply stop there - and the consequences if we don't? Just seems a really crappy business plan to me unless you've got millions to piss away. Obviously some folk do. The only other thought I had business wise was if there was perhaps a plan to sell off assets such as the Hotel and maybe even the ground itself (the ACV ultimately would not stop such a thing)? Maybe there are other ways I've not thought of? Anyway better to live for another day and see what pans out. Because we're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Ratwhite Posted March 8, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 8, 2019 Lot of new names and long posts on here today.. Can someone do a short summary post at around 5pm please. Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Charges and Debentures plus interest. Unsecured includes loans against future revenue (including that secured against EFL payments) hence the high figure. Hotel costs must be considered too within that figure and ‘football’ creditors. Had heard we had borrowed a substantial sum against the EFL payment that came through in late January and presumed that was a one off and is in part why our cash flow is now so dire The picture you are painting of borrowings against future EFL payments begs the question where has all the cash gone with unsecured creditors at the levels they are ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, Sluffy said: What I can't seem to comprehend is why anyone would want to buy us? Obviously folk do but what is their rationale? On the face of it I guess is to achieve promotion to the Premier League riches - but that won't be happening for a year or three at best - and despite how much the new owners chuck at it, promotion isn't guaranteed. Let us say for argument sake we get taken over very shortly by new owners but relegation to the third tier is inevitable. The new owners would need to fund the club for the remainder of this season, the financial year ending at the end of July, so the running costs for wages alone at £600k per month would be £3 million. Depending how the new owners purchases the club they would have to pay something for it and deal with at least some of the outstanding creditors (I mean the likes of James and Warburton who have deferred their settlement of their secured loans at least once already). Again for argument sake let us say this is done by the means suggested by Howardroark (hello to the forum btw) which seems to involve the least up front costs to the purchaser of £5 million (plus of course hidden costs such as legal fees, etc). So the new owners are in for £8 million and start next season at third tier level - and a drop of something like £7 million in revenue from being in the Championship. I would suggest that to get promoted back at the first opportunity their would be a need to have a quality of squad commensurate with winning promotion and so a wage bill to enable that to be achieved. Our wage bill is reportedly £600kpm (including Amos) so at a guess I suggest that would probably be around £450/500k per month or £5.4/6millon pa. (let's say £5.5 million as a sum to work with). Let's also think there would be a transfer fund also, shall we say £3 million perhaps - subject to any embargo placed upon us. Anderson claimed a year or so ago that the club would lose £6 million last season (it seemed to more or less breakeven due to the Madine sale) and breakeven this season - that of course is with the £7m premium of being in the Championship which will be lost - so I guess there will be a shortfall of some size for the new owners to find next season (bare in mind we ran an operational loss when we were promoted a couple of seasons back although we had a much higher wage bill at the time. Let say the new owners need to find another £2 million to keep the club afloat next season. So just to get promoted first time to where we are now would cost them £13 million (£5m purchase, £3m wages this season as clearly there is nothing left in the pot until season end, £3m transfers, £2 million trading loss in the third tier) and that doesn't include paying off creditors such as James and Warburton). Then if we really went for promotion the costs would really rocket for transfer purchases, increased wages and subsequent trading losses - and with no guarantee of promotion. If we don't go up and go for it again - but if we fail - then we hit the buffers with FFP regulations and it's consequences. And if we do go up then what will it cost to simply stop there - and the consequences if we don't? Just seems a really crappy business plan to me unless you've got millions to piss away. Obviously some folk do. The only other thought I had business wise was if there was perhaps a plan to sell off assets such as the Hotel and maybe even the ground itself (the ACV ultimately would not stop such a thing)? Maybe there are other ways I've not thought of? Anyway better to live for another day and see what pans out. Glad you are back ego tax dodge and Prem, as you say or they are fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radcliffe white Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 So wages Monday now, with or without a takeover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts