Site Supporter Steejay Posted March 20, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said: But that’s his maximum and final earning off us he was banking on / hoping for more quite clearly I’ll take this one small victory against him knowing that it’s the victory that won the war for the club It'll be interesting to see how much he's taken out though since the £525k two years ago. It'll be a proper kick in the balls if he's been milking it while we've been struggling to pay for Donaldson's water (poor lamb)... Edited March 20, 2019 by Steejay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 So Ken’s on the straight an narrow to doing the business here then? Saved the Club from liquidation, steered through a tough couple of seasons, sorted the finances out enough that a decent buyer sees value to purchase and held his nerve to get the best deal available to him and about to pass the Club to someone who can drive it forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, Boothy said: So Ken’s on the straight an narrow to doing the business here then? Saved the Club from liquidation, steered through a tough couple of seasons, sorted the finances out enough that a decent buyer sees value to purchase and held his nerve to get the best deal available to him and about to pass the Club to someone who can drive it forward? Im sure Ken has extracted along the way and perhaps made the journey rockier than it needed to be, but ultimately everything you say is true and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancWanderer Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 All these newbies pounding Howard with questions. Journos? Desperately searching for nuggets seeing as their own sources have routinely given them nowt but shite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjhb Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 How rich are they? Are we talking millionaires or billionaires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, Howardroark said: They could do that, but they see value and want the deal, they just didn’t want the pain of negotiating with him. Am I right in thinking that Anderson's secured creditor status amount of £5 million would be taken to off-set the amount which is outstanding on the 'Moonshift' debt that they have now purchased? If so what happens with the £3 million unsecured he owed? If Moonshift sold the debt for full price does that mean he is still on the hook for £3 million. Or as that been agreed to have been written off as part of the deal? Do we know what happened to the £3 million, ie was it put into the club, say to pay wages, or is it 'resting' in his bank account (as Father Ted used to say) - if so is that legal? What I'm getting at is will he be walking off with £5 million, being the £3m unsecured and the (say) £2m from the agreed deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted March 20, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, jmjhb said: How rich are they? Are we talking millionaires or billionaires? Comfortable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyoneawalker Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Am I missing something but new bidder has the shares off moonshift so ken no longer owes moonshift as they effectively taken his shares.......but bwfc owe ken £5m so that gets paid he gives moonshift the other £3m he owes and trousers £2m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Also worth noting that Moonshift could not now support another bidder. So in reality its a done deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Howard - when will the bidder be revealed? and when Will you reveal how you actually know all of this. My guess is you are involved in some way or have a very strong line into someone who is and who is involved with the new bidder? i doff my cap to you as others have said. Superb information and has been a breath of fresh air so thank you sir Edited March 20, 2019 by Escobarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrycowdrill Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Steejay said: It'll be interesting to see how much he's taken out though since the £525k two years ago. It'll be a proper kick in the balls if he's been milking it while we've been struggling to pay for Donaldson's water... True however, that fucker doesn’t deserve to drink my piss let alone fresh water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Steejay Posted March 20, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, barrycowdrill said: True however, that fucker doesn’t deserve to drink my piss let alone fresh water Yep, that was a bit of that there irony I added at the end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBW Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 52 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Ok Ken was not planning on defending the order today. That would’ve left 7 days to do a deal. Ken would’ve held all the power as anybody wanting to buy/save the club would have to pay him and then HMRC etc. He could’ve dictated his price effectively such was the desperation of the situation. By making themselves known last night and indicating they would pay Ken’s price, it gave him cause and valid reason to seek the adjournment, as without it the deal may not have been completed in time and he loses a pay day. It was also a condition of the buyer that the club not be under the WU order. What this now means is that Ken has a buyer at a price he is comfortable with. HOWEVER, if he messes them around they will simply refuse to deal with him and wait until the 3rd to take back his shares. They have the ability to take back the shares by novating (transferring) the ICI- Moonshift debt to themselves. Worth noting that Ken wouldn’t have known the debt had been novated until after the court hearing, or whenever Lee opens his post. Sorry -- last question. What is the motive for them not to just wait the 14 days and cut Ken out entirely? Why is there any point not just running down the two weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny The Ball Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sluffy said: Am I right in thinking that Anderson's secured creditor status amount of £5 million would be taken to off-set the amount which is outstanding on the 'Moonshift' debt that they have now purchased? If so what happens with the £3 million unsecured he owed? If Moonshift sold the debt for full price does that mean he is still on the hook for £3 million. Or as that been agreed to have been written off as part of the deal? Do we know what happened to the £3 million, ie was it put into the club, say to pay wages, or is it 'resting' in his bank account (as Father Ted used to say) - if so is that legal? What I'm getting at is will he be walking off with £5 million, being the £3m unsecured and the (say) £2m from the agreed deal? If you go back a page that in a slightly different way is the point I raised and howard answered Great Minds ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted March 20, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 20, 2019 Howard, please don't be john disley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sluffy said: Am I right in thinking that Anderson's secured creditor status amount of £5 million would be taken to off-set the amount which is outstanding on the 'Moonshift' debt that they have now purchased? If so what happens with the £3 million unsecured he owed? If Moonshift sold the debt for full price does that mean he is still on the hook for £3 million. Or as that been agreed to have been written off as part of the deal? Do we know what happened to the £3 million, ie was it put into the club, say to pay wages, or is it 'resting' in his bank account (as Father Ted used to say) - if so is that legal? What I'm getting at is will he be walking off with £5 million, being the £3m unsecured and the (say) £2m from the agreed deal? My guess would be that Moonshift Did a deal done on it. Any savings made would be used to fund the fee paid to Ken. I don’t know that Moonshift ever really felt that they would get the £3M back so £1-£1.5M would be a bonus. Whats important is that they believe in them as owners of the club. Ken almost certainly was able to get the money in to the club under a number of guises, but also was able to be repaid through invoice factoring. This is where he makes his real money as the debt to the factoring company will be paid off as part of the overall purchase. The process would’ve been: BWFC raise an invoice to company ‘A’. Company A is controlled by a Ken crony. Company A pays BWFC the invoice amount. Company B invoices BWFC for the same amount. Rather than have BWFC pay company B directly, Company B effectively sells the debt for say 90% of the invoice value. This is known as ‘factoring’ BWFC now owe the factoring company who get paid off with all the other creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol_BWFC Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, Howardroark said: No, they are acquiring the debt at par value. Possible some deferred but unlikely so as to achieve full value return. And this is in the public domain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, onlyoneawalker said: Am I missing something but new bidder has the shares off moonshift so ken no longer owes moonshift as they effectively taken his shares.......but bwfc owe ken £5m so that gets paid he gives moonshift the other £3m he owes and trousers £2m? Ken currently owes the new bidder £5M, if he hasn’t paid this by April 3rd then they take the shares and wipeout the loan plus don’t pay Ken his ‘fee’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Howard - when will the bidder be revealed? and when Will you reveal how you actually know all of this. My guess is you are involved in some way or have a very strong line into someone who is and who is involved with the new bidder? i doff my cap to you as others have said. Superb information and has been a breath of fresh air so thank you sir I imagine on completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridger Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Wages are due month end how do you see them being funded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said: And this is in the public domain? They have to acquire at full value, if they do not then HMRC wouldn’t get paid. The business remains under a WU petition and debts cannot be settled favourably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, Bridger said: Wages are due month end how do you see them being funded? New owner indirectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyoneawalker Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Ken currently owes the new bidder £5M, if he hasn’t paid this by April 3rd then they take the shares and wipeout the loan plus don’t pay Ken his ‘fee’. Ken borrowed £5m off moonshift then lent it BWFC secured on his shares if they take his shares he doesn’t owe moonshift £5m but bwfc still owes him? He gets that pays moonshift the extra £3m and keeps £2m no?? If not how does Ken’s secures loan to bwfc get written off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, BIGBW said: Sorry -- last question. What is the motive for them not to just wait the 14 days and cut Ken out entirely? Why is there any point not just running down the two weeks? Because they want the deal, if Ken starts to think he’s going to get screwed then he could go nuclear and trigger administration. Also the less time until completion the less likely Ken is to change something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, onlyoneawalker said: Ken borrowed £5m off moonshift then lent it BWFC secured on his shares if they take his shares he doesn’t owe moonshift £5m but bwfc still owes him? He gets that pays moonshift the extra £3m and keeps £2m no?? If not how does Ken’s secures loan to bwfc get written off? No, the nature of the charge means that if the principle amount (Moonshift to Ken) defaults and is reclaimed via security then the secondary amount (BWFC to Ken) owed is negated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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