Take Over

[Marc505]

Maybe this is the next frontier of argument and infighting then; those like me on one side feeling lucky to still have a club to support at all and quite content to consolidate and take stock while we're still on life support in league 1 - and another side quickly forgetting years of austerity that still brought a near death experience, who expect our new owners to be just as reckless with their spending as previous owners to try and break back into the cash cow league as soon as possible.

[Mantra]

16 minutes ago, tkonion said:

Welcome back Howard. How much would Southampton be likely to cost if they can attract a buyer? 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/19/swansea-city-owners-sale-takeover-us-investors

This article valued Swansea at 100 million when the Americans bought them. Would imagine a similar amount for Southampton, they are similar clubs in terms of Geographic factors and general size. Mike Ashley was holding out for 300 million wasn't he? Probably less than that for Saints as Newcastle have a bigger history and fanbase.

If we strike lucky and get some owners that have something about them - they could buy the club/pay off debts for c.30 million. Get us to the Prem within 5-10 years. Then they'll be raking in the cash.

That's best case scenario though. Could be that they throw a load of money at it for 5 years, we're still shite and we're in the same position as now in 2024.

 

According to this article, https://talksport.com/football/376346/how-much-money-each-premier-league-club-earned-tv-and-their-final-position-180518283150/ 

Even the lowly Premier League clubs are getting 100 million from TV Revenue. Of course they probably spend most of that on wages and transfers but, there's a lot of money to be made if you can find the right formula.

I'm between West Stand and Casino, and Howard to some extent. We aren't an attractive club to buy, but we certainly have features that make us more attractive than some.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mantra

[jmjhb]

51 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

And again the most important point is that net worth isn’t indicative of the amount to be spent on the club. 

Well yes but Anderson had no money in (football owner's terms) and thus there was no investment 

[Howardroark]

43 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Talking about announcing the new owner/s (I'm asking the question generally to anyone who may know about these things - hopefully you might H), isn't the first announcement of such in these matters always to 'the City'?  (I know 'the City' refers to the City of London).

I've always assumed that to mean to the Stock Market but I don't know for certain and certainly don't know how it is announced, or who announces it?

I assume the reason it is, is because people generally own shares in public quoted companies, and it effects them financially?

Would the first we know about our new owners be when such an announcement is made.  If so where should we be looking out for it, although I suspect you will probably at the front of the queue  to inform us anyway?

I know Burnden Leisure is privately owned but with many people owning the remaining 5% or so share holding, but am guessing it will still need to be announced in ' the City' also?

I can't recall though if it was though when Holdsworth bought the club off Eddie?

Any explanation of such would be of interest and appreciated please.

 

Only required to announce to the stock exchange if either party is a PLC. The buyer could contain an individual who majority owns a PLC and as such requires confidentiality to prevent insider trading.

[Sluffy]

9 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

Only required to announce to the stock exchange if either party is a PLC. The buyer could contain an individual who majority owns a PLC and as such requires confidentiality to prevent insider trading.

Thanks, I always vaguely thought it was something along those lines but never really had much of an understanding of it.

 

[Mounts Kipper]

7 hours ago, Mantra said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/19/swansea-city-owners-sale-takeover-us-investors

This article valued Swansea at 100 million when the Americans bought them. Would imagine a similar amount for Southampton, they are similar clubs in terms of Geographic factors and general size. Mike Ashley was holding out for 300 million wasn't he? Probably less than that for Saints as Newcastle have a bigger history and fanbase.

If we strike lucky and get some owners that have something about them - they could buy the club/pay off debts for c.30 million. Get us to the Prem within 5-10 years. Then they'll be raking in the cash.

That's best case scenario though. Could be that they throw a load of money at it for 5 years, we're still shite and we're in the same position as now in 2024.

 

According to this article, https://talksport.com/football/376346/how-much-money-each-premier-league-club-earned-tv-and-their-final-position-180518283150/ 

Even the lowly Premier League clubs are getting 100 million from TV Revenue. Of course they probably spend most of that on wages and transfers but, there's a lot of money to be made if you can find the right formula.

I'm between West Stand and Casino, and Howard to some extent. We aren't an attractive club to buy, but we certainly have features that make us more attractive than some.

There are teams in the premier league who were less attractive to buy who have been bought and are doing well, Watford and Bournemouth spring to mind. 

[Duck Egg]

7 hours ago, WestStandUpper said:

and we are steeped in so much more history than Southampton, and arguably a bigger club too.

 

Aye, very arguably!! No offence mate but by any measure we're not even close.

[Mounts Kipper]

21 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Aye, very arguably!! No offence mate but by any measure we're not even close.

Not even close!  Utter rubbish. 

 

While it’s not an exact science the article below attempts to rank clubs. 

https://talksport.com/football/287395/all-time-top-flight-table-top-40-english-football-clubs-ranked-points-won-first-division/

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[radcliffe white]

Honours and years in top flight no 

support wise Southampton bigger 

Edited March 25, 2019 by radcliffe white

[Mounts Kipper]

11 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Honours and years in top flight no 

support wise Southampton bigger 

They have an all time average of just over 18k ranked 21st we’re just over 17k ranked 25th, suggests similar sized clubs and I think that’s about right. 

[radcliffe white]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

They have an all time average of just over 18k ranked 21st we’re just over 17k ranked 25th, suggests similar sized clubs and I think that’s about right. 

Take into consideration size of the dell mate 

just had a butchers since st marys in premier league they haven’t dropped below average of 30k 

plus in championship & league one average over 26 & 22 respectively 

we could only dream of that 

[JimmyRiddle]

8 hours ago, Howardroark said:

The facilities now aren’t of PL quality, part of the reason for the struggles at present is that the players don’t have access to high level recovery equipment, the academy isn’t top category, the corporate facilities are dated and the stadium is now 21 years old.

So why would anyone wish to buy a football club like ours? What would their aims and objectives be?

Edited March 25, 2019 by JimmyRiddle

[Chris Custodiet]

9 hours ago, Burndens Bogs said:

Murat Ulker is based in Turkey and doesn't have a stake in another football club.

Nothing to see here, move on.

Shame though, because he's minted to the max.

And in debt to the max according to Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-01/mcvitie-s-boss-murat-ulk

[Mounts Kipper]

10 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Take into consideration size of the dell mate 

just had a butchers since st marys in premier league they haven’t dropped below average of 30k 

plus in championship & league one average over 26 & 22 respectively 

we could only dream of that 

That’s a very short period in time. In the championship with a decent team we’d easily be around 20k. You also have to factor in that Bolton is so much poorer area than Southampton.  No way that it could be said we are not close in terms of size of club. Some folk seem to think we’re Wigan.😂

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Guest]

It’s Becks, by the way

[radcliffe white]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

That’s a very short period in time. In the championship with a decent team we’d easily be around 20k. You also have to factor in that Bolton is so much poorer area than Southampton. 

Championship going for promotion maybe 20k plus, after relegation in 2005 they spent 4 years in championship with one season averaging 17k the rest 22k, then dropped into league 1 and continued good numbers 

I take your point on bolton being a poorer area 

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Championship going for promotion maybe 20k plus, after relegation in 2005 they spent 4 years in championship with one season averaging 17k the rest 22k, then dropped into league 1 and continued good numbers 

I take your point on bolton being a poorer area 

We seem to knock our support all to easily,   With a bit of positivity and some financial backing it’s surprising how quickly our crowds would recover. 

[radcliffe white]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We seem to knock our support all to easily,   With a bit of positivity and some financial backing it’s surprising how quickly our crowds would recover. 

When it’s good it’s good 

fickle set bolton 

[Chris Custodiet]

11 hours ago, Howardroark said:

I shall bite, but only as a matter of factual correction:

In terms of administration: 

the secured creditor putting the club in to administration would be required to fund the administration until the administrator was able to put in place a plan to return the business to profitability. If this is not possible then the decision can still be taken to liquidate. Funding administration means meeting the costs of running the business (essentially the shortfall between incomings and outgoings). 

The issue with an administrator putting in place a plan to return the business to profitability is that this almost always involves a sale of the business to a new owner. Under EFL rules this owner has to ensure each creditor receives a minimum of 25% of the original debt. This means the minimum investment in to the club is £18M or so. 

Given that finding a buyer in administration is not guaranteed, you have to ask yourself why a secured creditor would take on the burden of financially supporting the club when they will receive 100% of their funds back in the event of a liquidation (the assets used as security are worth more than the outstanding loans). 

On Benny’s point regarding Iles’ report today about the buyer being ‘UK Based’, this is factually accurate. 

N.B I’m not ‘back’, simply continuing in my purpose to reassure in the face of false reports from Nixon and Iles.

Oh and a shout out to a ‘Mark Crowther’ I enjoy nothing more than being referred to as a ‘bell end’ by somebody who tweets my comments to journalists in the hope of seeming informed.

Pleased you are back H.

You'll have noticed that there's an eclectic mix on WW.  You'll have to get used to the rough and tumble though. Nowt wrong with crude abuse but don't try anything like a gentle parody loosely based on Wogan's Janet and John  and the unfortunate malapropism of a contestant on Pointless or  its PC brigade will have your guts for garters.

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[MickyD]

8 hours ago, Howardroark said:

The reason I always quote Southampton as better value is because of their geographical location in respect of capturing fan base,  and also acquiring the best ‘local’ talent. They are relatively unchallenged on both counts

I often wonder about things like that. If a supporter is willing to travel,  say 25 miles to watch his team regularly,  you'd draw a 25 mile radius around the ground. We all know that within Bolton's 25 miles there are a high concentration of other clubs also vying for supporters; some a lot bigger and more successful than others and we live with that but many of the club's without that concentration of other clubs are coastal, including Southampton, and thus around 50% off their 25 mile radius is taken up with fish. Southampton may be fairly remote but it doesn't follow that their circle is fuller than,  say Coventry or similarly geographically placed club.

[Howardroark]

9 hours ago, WestStandUpper said:

But the NW is the heart and hub of English football, and we are steeped in so much more history than Southampton, and arguably a bigger club too.

The only thing Southampton has in it's favour is that it is it's proximity of other clubs... but so do Stoke, no one really within any close radius other than Port Vale and they need taking over.. so shows having no clubs around you doesn't really count for much.

The stadium is 21 years old, but still young, its state of the art, and just needs a lick of paint.. the land surrounding the Reebok echoes the Etihad and look what the owners saw in that potential and turned that into (we won't get anything like Sheikh Mansour but the potential of the ground is the same).

The academy was one of the best in the country, and arguably still is, it just needs investment... which a new owner can bring, same as the new equipment, a new owner can buy that, its not out of reach with someone with some financial clout like Ulker

I take your points although I will counter and say that: 

Stoke falls within a catchment area of the Birmingham teams, East Midlands, Merseyside and Greater Manchester. 

The Unibol is far from state of the art. 

The academy is only category 2 and hasn’t yet produced a top level international, Holding may end up getting honours, but any other takers? 

It should also be noted that FFP means losses need to be limited to £39M over three years, do we think your ambitions could be realised on said budget?

[Howardroark]

11 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Pleased you are back H.

You'll have noticed that there's an eclectic mix on WW.  You'll have to get used to the rough and tumble though. Nowt wrong with crude abuse but don't try anything like a gentle parody loosely based on Wogan's Janet and John  and the unfortunate malapropism of a contestant on Pointless or  its PC brigade will have your guts for garters.

 

The irony being I thought you were referring to Met Police Commissioner Cressida Dick.

[Chris Custodiet]

7 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

The irony being I thought you were referring to Met Police Commissioner Cressida Dick.

You are so quick H.

I was going to say your dinner date was Melony Frontage  until I heard about the Pointless contestant who, when trying to remember the name Cressida, came up with Caressa instead. Alexander nearly wet his pants

Edited March 25, 2019 by Chris Custodiet

[Mounts Kipper]

8 minutes ago, Howardroark said:

I take your points although I will counter and say that: 

Stoke falls within a catchment area of the Birmingham teams, East Midlands, Merseyside and Greater Manchester. 

The Unibol is far from state of the art. 

The academy is only category 2 and hasn’t yet produced a top level international, Holding may end up getting honours, but any other takers? 

It should also be noted that FFP means losses need to be limited to £39M over three years, do we think your ambitions could be realised on said budget?

The unibol while not state of the art is superior to Southampton’s ground and other relatively new creations such as Stoke city which is utter shite in comparison. 

[Howardroark]

7 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The unibol while not state of the art is superior to Southampton’s ground and other relatively new creations such as Stoke city which is utter shite in comparison. 

I think St Mary’s is newer than Unibol