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Bloody Sunday

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Soldier being charged with murder.

i thought the good Friday agreement meant this wasn’t an option?

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Just been listening to some of this.

Some stories of soldiers shooting unarmed people, in the back and possibly whilst on the floor.

Never know the full story, which is unfortunate as those with legitimate grievances, on both sides, may struggle for justice, where applicable.

Government in response has issued quite a strong statement and is changing/strengthening laws to protect servicemen.

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"Innocent" people often get injured/killed during a gun fight. The thing is, what the fuck were these "non-combatants" doing in the vicinity of a potential fire-fight?

 

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4 minutes ago, royal white said:

Fkin shambles. 

You'll have a better insight than most. I think it's important that soldiers do conform to certain rules, however, after nearly 50 years, and such fog, it does appear to be a virtually impossible excercise.

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2 minutes ago, MickyD said:

"Innocent" people often get injured/killed during a gun fight. The thing is, what the fuck were these "non-combatants" doing in the vicinity of a potential fire-fight?

 

A comment earlier was that the IRA confirmed they had deployed two "defensive" operatives in the vacinity of a protest march by unarmed folk.

Chuck in the context of a large group of repeatedly rioting youth, and it's a right mess.

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9 minutes ago, MickyD said:

"Innocent" people often get injured/killed during a gun fight. The thing is, what the fuck were these "non-combatants" doing in the vicinity of a potential fire-fight?

 

It was an organised civil rights march not a gun fight

tensions at the time will have contributed but there is no doubt innocent people got shot that day , if they were caught in crossfire that’s unfortunate consequence of the situation , however, if, and I emphasise if, unarmed marchers were targeted and shot that wouldn’t be acceptable would it? 

 

 

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Many of the MSM report how the Paras fired into the crowd of men women and children. Strange how no women and kids were killed and all the fatalities were men, many of whom were of a fighting age.

How you can release 100s as part of the GFA and then charge some bloke in his 70s is beyond me. What new evidence could they possibly have? 

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3 minutes ago, royal white said:

Many of the MSM report how the Paras fired into the crowd of men women and children. Strange how no women and kids were killed and all the fatalities were men, many of whom were of a fighting age.

How you can release 100s as part of the GFA and then charge some bloke in his 70s is beyond me. What new evidence could they possibly have? 

This is indeed the issues in a nutshell.

With regard to the single soldier being charged, I can only assume there is evidence from other soldiers or impartial witnesses.

Particularly as it has to be beyond reasonable doubt and not a probability.

I suppose it will come out at trial.

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39 minutes ago, royal white said:

Many of the MSM report how the Paras fired into the crowd of men women and children. Strange how no women and kids were killed and all the fatalities were men, many of whom were of a fighting age.

How you can release 100s as part of the GFA and then charge some bloke in his 70s is beyond me. What new evidence could they possibly have? 

That second paragraph is the nub if it for me. 

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2 hours ago, DazBob said:

Sunday, bloody Sunday.

Just me that only ever hears that phrase in a Partridge voice?

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4 hours ago, royal white said:

Many of the MSM report how the Paras fired into the crowd of men women and children. Strange how no women and kids were killed and all the fatalities were men, many of whom were of a fighting age.

How you can release 100s as part of the GFA and then charge some bloke in his 70s is beyond me. What new evidence could they possibly have? 

Well said Royal. My dad did four tours with Fleet Air Arm and tales of the stress the patrols were under with IRA tactics we're horrendous.

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3 minutes ago, green genie said:

Well said Royal. My dad did four tours with Fleet Air Arm and tales of the stress the patrols were under with IRA tactics we're horrendous.

I used to work with a bloke who did tours there too. Not sure what regiment.

He told me a story to make your hair curl. Tension must have been horrendous.

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3 hours ago, jules_darby said:

Just me that only ever hears that phrase in a Partridge voice?

Clearly not 😀

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2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Clearly not 😀

I just thought you were a big Bono fan

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Boner. It was boner. He loves them.

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1 hour ago, jules_darby said:

I just thought you were a big Bono fan

Not as big a fan as Bono is of hatchbacks. 

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3 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I used to work with a bloke who did tours there too. Not sure what regiment.

He told me a story to make your hair curl. Tension must have been horrendous.

Bloke I used to work with was the senior officer in the area when this happened

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/film-tv/news/squaddie-who-lost-legs-in-ira-blast-tipped-to-enter-big-brother-house-28540421.html

His stories were fucking horrific. He wasn't at Bloody Sunday but knew a few who were. I really see no point as to why this has been re-opened again. I thought that the GF agreement had closed this off as an extremely unfortunate chapter in history, rightly or wrongly, and both sides were probably/possibly culpable. Opening it all up again benefits who exactly?

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12 hours ago, Spider said:

Soldier being charged with murder.

i thought the good Friday agreement meant this wasn’t an option?

 

...and this poor sod is the sacrificial lamb. Fucking disgraceful and totally unbalanced. No one mentions the near 200 service folk killed in that same year or hunting down the scum responsible do they?

The government needs to change the law on this stuff and fast - otherwise quasi ambulance chasers like Amnesty International will have a fucking field day with Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

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7 hours ago, bolty58 said:

 

...and this poor sod is the sacrificial lamb. Fucking disgraceful and totally unbalanced. No one mentions the near 200 service folk killed in that same year or hunting down the scum responsible do they?

The government needs to change the law on this stuff and fast - otherwise quasi ambulance chasers like Amnesty International will have a fucking field day with Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

I was with you until that last paragraph.

The GFA and the passage of time should have meant it wasn't in the public interest to pursue any prosecution in this case.

That said I think it would be a mistake to change the law. As horrendous as conflict is you can't abandon human rights or remove responsibility for how soldiers behave in the battlefield.  That way leads to more Abu Ghraibs, My Lais etc 

 

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 Looking at the level of feeling in Northern Ireland from the families, any law change would create a hell of a bad atmosphere. The problem is,  I reckon the aftermath following a change in favour of soldier f would be less favourable than no change of rules and hang soldier f out to dry.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

I was with you until that last paragraph.

The GFA and the passage of time should have meant it wasn't in the public interest to pursue any prosecution in this case.

That said I think it would be a mistake to change the law. As horrendous as conflict is you can't abandon human rights or remove responsibility for how soldiers behave in the battlefield.  That way leads to more Abu Ghraibs, My Lais etc 

 

Agree with the last bit. You can't offer such protections to soldiers - because those protections will ultimately be abused.

The difficult bit is how you balance allowing them to operate in incredibly difficult circumstances vs protect people from potential abuse of that power. 

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22 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

I was with you until that last paragraph.

The GFA and the passage of time should have meant it wasn't in the public interest to pursue any prosecution in this case.

That said I think it would be a mistake to change the law. As horrendous as conflict is you can't abandon human rights or remove responsibility for how soldiers behave in the battlefield.  That way leads to more Abu Ghraibs, My Lais etc 

 

OK mate, we will disagree then. I think you will find that a Conservative government will change the law and either time limit or eradicate retrospective investigations into military operations completely.

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14 hours ago, jules_darby said:

I just thought you were a big Bono fan

That's not Bono.

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