It's the phoenix club... Pull off in to paradise

[stevieb]

Hopefully won't ever come to this but let's consider the options should we go tits up :

1- we have a functioning supporters trust that have the fan base on side and funds ready to go buy the club 

2 - we have secretive (until now) high net worth bolton fans who don't want the club to fold and are willing to chuck some cash away to safeguard the future of the club 

3 - the fan base becomes even more fragmented as we fold with pockets of a couple of hundred wanderers fans supporting a variety of clubs 3 divisions lower than Chorley that claim to be the phoenix club of bwfc for half a season before turning into those blokes you hate having football conversations with because you know within 5 seconds they don't know owt about the game and spend their Saturdays cushion shopping. 

[Leyther_Matt]

Our only hope is option 2 - and completing this season, most importantly - but sadly I see us getting wazzed out of the league and option 3 as the most likely.

Hereford/Darlington/Wimbledon/Chester all had active supporters trusts with a long time Plan B, a united fanbase, a more realistic pathway to rebuild from and, dare I say it, lower expectations. There’s no way any sort of phoenix club would be sustainable at Middlebrook, and once we shift elsewhere I just don’t see any way back. 

[Boothy]

1 doesn't exist 

2 ST bagsied all the fantasy high net worth individuals for their story time

3 BWFC or no one

[Spider]

Were too big a club to have a Supporters Trust that is capable of representing all fans.

Smaller clubs can manage it but we’d have far too many splinter groups.

We can’t agree on whether or not the hotdogs should be buttered for God’s sake.

 

[Clarence Carter]

24 minutes ago, Spider said:

Were too big a club to have a Supporters Trust that is capable of representing all fans.

Smaller clubs can manage it but we’d have far too many splinter groups.

We can’t agree on whether or not the hotdogs should be buttered for God’s sake.

 

No butter and no red seats in the new ground, job done.

[Traf]

For the first time during so many close calls over the last 40-odd years, I actually think we're fucked now.

This is worse than when we needed Lifeline or TR85 or a supermarket or even the Holdsworth/Anderson farce.

[Tombwfc]

There's no reason why we couldn't reform. Not needing to find £25m would bring people with relative wealth to the table, and then whoever wins the backing of the BN and some former players as ambassadors would garner enough of the fanbase to start. 

Division-wise I think it's already been said on here in the past that we'd be talking Conference North, maybe a level below rather than some kind of Sunday league outfit.

I'm sure some will decide that they'd rather not have a football club at all than follow anything connected with the Beeno or the ST, and good luck to them. But Rangers are Rangers, Wimbledon are Wimbledon and Bolton Wanderers would still be Bolton Wanderers.

 

[bolty58]

2 hours ago, Traf said:

For the first time during so many close calls over the last 40-odd years, I actually think we're fucked now.

This is worse than when we needed Lifeline or TR85 or a supermarket or even the Holdsworth/Anderson farce.

T'lads reet.

[Leyther_Matt]

6 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

There's no reason why we couldn't reform. Not needing to find £25m would bring people with relative wealth to the table, and then whoever wins the backing of the BN and some former players as ambassadors would garner enough of the fanbase to start. 

Division-wise I think it's already been said on here in the past that we'd be talking Conference North, maybe a level below rather than some kind of Sunday league outfit.

I'm sure some will decide that they'd rather not have a football club at all than follow anything connected with the Beeno or the ST, and good luck to them. But Rangers are Rangers, Wimbledon are Wimbledon and Bolton Wanderers would still be Bolton Wanderers.

 

As previously posted though, Rangers were always going to find a buyer while Wimbledon (and Darlington) were already homeless, had an active supporters trust and a united - and smaller, much more manageable - fan base who had bought in to the idea long ago. There really isn’t a precedent for a club our size.

[waffer cup 07]

18 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

As previously posted though, Rangers were always going to find a buyer while Wimbledon (and Darlington) were already homeless, had an active supporters trust and a united - and smaller, much more manageable - fan base who had bought in to the idea long ago. There really isn’t a precedent for a club our size.

Middlesborough. ???

[Dr Faustus]

1 hour ago, waffer cup 07 said:

Middlesborough. ???

Different game now surely?

 

Hope I'm wrong though

[Duck Egg]

I imagine at Wimbledon, Newport, even FC Utd there were a few disparate groups but ultimately the majority threw their weight behind 1 single entity.

Bury fans are going through similar now with Forever Bury being the largest group, subject to criticism but appealing to everyone to unify behind them.

We'll have people refusing to consider supporting the ST or whoever, but once the splinter groups fail to gain any momentum I've no doubt we'll have 5 or 6k get behind one body and it'll grow from there.

[Biggish Dave]

To be honest, the longer this has gone on, the more I've realised I have simply fallen out of love with football - but not Bolton Wanderers. If the worst comes, I think i'd just walk away from watching the game. A different view to what I held 3 months ago.

As it happens, I think we'll be fine, the ownership will get sorted and i'll soon have my enthusiasm back

[Leyther_Matt]

3 hours ago, waffer cup 07 said:

Middlesborough. ???

They were option 2 of the original post

 

36 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

I imagine at Wimbledon, Newport, even FC Utd there were a few disparate groups but ultimately the majority threw their weight behind 1 single entity.

Bury fans are going through similar now with Forever Bury being the largest group, subject to criticism but appealing to everyone to unify behind them.

We'll have people refusing to consider supporting the ST or whoever, but once the splinter groups fail to gain any momentum I've no doubt we'll have 5 or 6k get behind one body and it'll grow from there.

There’s no way enough 7k a week would be enough to sustain us at the current gaff, nor do I imagine there would that many people wanting to watch AFC Bolton in a division below Colls. 

[Matt Lofthouse]

2 minutes ago, Biggish Dave said:

To be honest, the longer this has gone on, the more I've realised I have simply fallen out of love with football - but not Bolton Wanderers. If the worst comes, I think i'd just walk away from watching the game. A different view to what I held 3 months ago.

That’s unfortunately where I’m at. 

High wages, transfer fees, greed, delusional owners, VAR, play acting, diving, non-tackling, irrelevant cup competitions, is eating away at the game we love.

[Sluffy]

1 minute ago, Duck Egg said:

I imagine at Wimbledon, Newport, even FC Utd there were a few disparate groups but ultimately the majority threw their weight behind 1 single entity.

Bury fans are going through similar now with Forever Bury being the largest group, subject to criticism but appealing to everyone to unify behind them.

We'll have people refusing to consider supporting the ST or whoever, but once the splinter groups fail to gain any momentum I've no doubt we'll have 5 or 6k get behind one body and it'll grow from there.

Fwiw I doubt the ST would even be considered to be a major player in most people's current view of them and I would think the initial popular rallying point would be around the vastly more media savvy the Lion of Vienna crew.

Most of the initial rallying calls I would think would come from the social media world of the younger generation and the LoV proved themselves to be the organisers and the leaders of the (utterly pointless by then imo) protest against Anderson - which turned out to be a great success in catching the 'social media types' imagination and actions.

Iles no doubt would champion the ST as always but I think given a choice must people certainly don't identify with them (age profile most be 50 plus years at least, no diversity at all in their leadership apart from the token woman, complete and utter failure to achieve anything of note, and currently overdue on submitting its accounts and holding an AGM (this for the second time in four years now!) not to mention the way the ST has been run - not least the Roger Allanson saga).  

https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/Search/Society/23715

I reckon most at least would rally behind Will Jones and the much younger generation instead.

Of course the ST would have an advantage of being already established with a bank account  and nominally recognised by the Football Supporters Federation - but they themselves are about as useful as a chocolate tea pot - but I would think with the modern way of doing things - crowd funding and miles better use of social media, that they would quickly attract funding and sponsors (local company's wanting to help and be associated with the Phoenix club) etc,.

The LoV would be vastly more dynamic, active and innovative than the ST has ever been - and wouldn't be in it for their own gain as I've always suspected a number of the ST people have who to my mind at least have always been seeking to become owners of the club.

I don't think the LoV could do everything themselves to get the Phoenix club off the ground but I do think they would more likely be the catalysts to attract others to the project who can.

I'd vote for them at least, even with the bloke prying into my private life being a big part of them.

Anyway let us hope we have no need for a Phoenix club and our 144 years not out continues for quite some time to come yet

[Leyther_Matt]

1 minute ago, Sluffy said:

Fwiw I doubt the ST would even be considered to be a major player in most people's current view of them and I would think the initial popular rallying point would be around the vastly more media savvy the Lion of Vienna crew.

Most of the initial rallying calls I would think would come from the social media world of the younger generation and the LoV proved themselves to be the organisers and the leaders of the (utterly pointless by then imo) protest against Anderson - which turned out to be a great success in catching the 'social media types' imagination and actions.

Iles no doubt would champion the ST as always but I think given a choice must people certainly don't identify with them (age profile most be 50 plus years at least, no diversity at all in their leadership apart from the token woman, complete and utter failure to achieve anything of note, and currently overdue on submitting its accounts and holding an AGM (this for the second time in four years now!) not to mention the way the ST has been run - not least the Roger Allanson saga).  

https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/Search/Society/23715

I reckon most at least would rally behind Will Jones and the much younger generation instead.

Of course the ST would have an advantage of being already established with a bank account  and nominally recognised by the Football Supporters Federation - but they themselves are about as useful as a chocolate tea pot - but I would think with the modern way of doing things - crowd funding and miles better use of social media, that they would quickly attract funding and sponsors (local company's wanting to help and be associated with the Phoenix club) etc,.

The LoV would be vastly more dynamic, active and innovative than the ST has ever been - and wouldn't be in it for their own gain as I've always suspected a number of the ST people have who to my mind at least have always been seeking to become owners of the club.

I don't think the LoV could do everything themselves to get the Phoenix club off the ground but I do think they would more likely be the catalysts to attract others to the project who can.

I'd vote for them at least, even with the bloke prying into my private life being a big part of them.

Anyway let us hope we have no need for a Phoenix club and our 144 years not out continues for quite some time to come yet

For as long as there isn’t a body registered with Supporters Direct then it doesn’t matter about rallying points because there’s nothing to rally around. 

[Duck Egg]

 

8 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

For as long as there isn’t a body registered with Supporters Direct then it doesn’t matter about rallying points because there’s nothing to rally around. 

Hopefully there won't ever be a need for it but that's hardly an insurmountable barrier.

I agree with Sluffy that whoever is the most savvy on social media would likely become the main rallying group. LoV or whoever and then they'd have to become constitued & democratic.

[Sluffy]

4 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

For as long as there isn’t a body registered with Supporters Direct then it doesn’t matter about rallying points because there’s nothing to rally around. 

Eh?

Not sure what you are telling me?

Of course you can rally around anything, for any cause you want, not just football.

If the club is liquidated and I announce 'follow me and let us start a Phoenix club' then there's nothing to stop me - Supporters Direct is a body to set up Supporters Trusts with an aim to get better representation at clubs - not the same thing at all.

Of course if our ST made the rally call then they would obviously attract more to the cause than I ever would (not though I'm offering anyway) but I really do believe if the LoV made the call most would flock to their banner and not the ST's.

What's to like about the ST anyway, not that they've achieved anything of note, questionable behaviour and favouritism (in my opinion) and not relevant in representation to anyone other than white middle class males over the age of 50 plus.

The LoV isn't my cup of tea in terms of it's articles or some of the past behaviour of its writers/tweeters but credit where credit is due, they are far more active and passionate than the ST have ever been (I would describe the ST being moribund myself) and given a choice between the two I know which one would attract the most followers, even with Iles waving the ST flag as hard as he could.

[Youri McAnespie]

There's only one candidate to rally around...

BWFCFC - Bolton Wandersways Fucking Clackervalves Football Club.

[RoadRunnerFan]

Tez Rigby's Super White Army doesn't have much of a ring to it. 

[marple whites]

11 hours ago, Biggish Dave said:

To be honest, the longer this has gone on, the more I've realised I have simply fallen out of love with football - but not Bolton Wanderers. If the worst comes, I think i'd just walk away from watching the game. A different view to what I held 3 months ago.

As it happens, I think we'll be fine, the ownership will get sorted and i'll soon have my enthusiasm back

Would defo agree with ur first point - not really interested in goals, scores, transfer news or watching games, largely stemming from most of last season.

new owners and we go again.

[Kane57]

On 22/08/2019 at 10:25, Sluffy said:

Fwiw I doubt the ST would even be considered to be a major player in most people's current view of them and I would think the initial popular rallying point would be around the vastly more media savvy the Lion of Vienna crew.

Most of the initial rallying calls I would think would come from the social media world of the younger generation and the LoV proved themselves to be the organisers and the leaders of the (utterly pointless by then imo) protest against Anderson - which turned out to be a great success in catching the 'social media types' imagination and actions.

Iles no doubt would champion the ST as always but I think given a choice must people certainly don't identify with them (age profile most be 50 plus years at least, no diversity at all in their leadership apart from the token woman, complete and utter failure to achieve anything of note, and currently overdue on submitting its accounts and holding an AGM (this for the second time in four years now!) not to mention the way the ST has been run - not least the Roger Allanson saga).  

https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/Search/Society/23715

I reckon most at least would rally behind Will Jones and the much younger generation instead.

Of course the ST would have an advantage of being already established with a bank account  and nominally recognised by the Football Supporters Federation - but they themselves are about as useful as a chocolate tea pot - but I would think with the modern way of doing things - crowd funding and miles better use of social media, that they would quickly attract funding and sponsors (local company's wanting to help and be associated with the Phoenix club) etc,.

The LoV would be vastly more dynamic, active and innovative than the ST has ever been - and wouldn't be in it for their own gain as I've always suspected a number of the ST people have who to my mind at least have always been seeking to become owners of the club.

I don't think the LoV could do everything themselves to get the Phoenix club off the ground but I do think they would more likely be the catalysts to attract others to the project who can.

I'd vote for them at least, even with the bloke prying into my private life being a big part of them.

Anyway let us hope we have no need for a Phoenix club and our 144 years not out continues for quite some time to come yet

You're absolutely insane

[clown]

On 22/08/2019 at 10:19, Matt said:

That’s unfortunately where I’m at. 

High wages, transfer fees, greed, delusional owners, VAR, play acting, diving, non-tackling, irrelevant cup competitions, is eating away at the game we love.

Yep, and a vehicle for gambling companies. 

[ErnestTurnip]

We all have our own personal axes we like to grind but for me it's players wages.

I know some lads who had STs and just reached the point where they felt disconnected enough from the team because of money to stop going and they have never been back, this was when we were doing ok with no visible problems.

There's loads of money in the game and wages are a place where it just pisses out of the system with no real benefit overall. There is absolutely zero interest within the game in a cap or looking at wages, it even got a mention on QUEST highlights this weekend and the player's reaction was as though he'd been asked if it was ok to shag his mum in front of him.

It will never happen but if the whole pyramid did something like limiting the size of every first team squad to 23 and then staggering a weekly wages cap down from say 250k to 25k in L2 there'd be plenty to keep things solvent.

Maybe. And apols for going a bit Sluffy, beer, bank holiday etc.

Edited August 27, 2019 by ErnestTurnip