Extinction people

[kent_white]

3 minutes ago, maaarsh said:

Nah, their manifesto specifically rules out market solutions as unacceptable.

The final intent is right - unfortunately it's been hijacked by nutters who are actually more interested in left wing outcomes than climate outcomes.

I'll work with anybody who's final intent is right. Politics is secondary.

I had a look at their manifesto the other day and can't remember reading anything along those lines? I know one of their founders recently released a book that expanded on his original ideas. Is it in that?

[Boby Brno]

3 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Three hundred thousand out on the streets in Sydney. Hundreds of thousands in Melbourne. Incredible stuff.

I think the cycnical old Aussie video is brilliant. It shows us he's losing, because when they 've nothing left to argue they revert to stereotypes and name calling. Directed at kids! What a brave geeza. It doesn't take a genius to realise that those children on the streets are actually campaigning for us to limit and stop everything he took the piss out of them for in the video. But let him have his rant in the name of humour.  

We all use fossil fuels, in everything we do, it's a world built on fossil fuels. Climate justice protests are about the urgency of transitioning from that. Blaming them for existing in a fossil fuel society seems pretty lame to me.

And there is another shite argument that's circulating. It's the "well China is worse than us" and "until Brazil and India change then everything we do is pointless". Really? If that's something you believe then maybe try having a walk around your house. Look at where your tech is made, look at where your clothes are made, look at where most of your food comes from. All those things use vast amounts of fossil fuels. If you think the country that imports it all is not just as responsible as the country that makes it, then you're living on cloud cuckoo land. The UK is clearly not "way ahead of the game". 

A green new deal would provide hundreds of thousands of jobs for people in this country to produce energy, food, technology and clothing locally. Which would in turn have a massive impact on reducing the emissions produced by countries like China. 

Apologies to Bolty personally in advance for writing another essay, I did try my best to limit this one. 

The shite argument about China and India and other developing countries is the biggest threat to this global problem. It doesn’t matter what 65 million Brits have in their home. There are 1.3 BILLION Chinese. 1.3 Billion Indians. 

Ive said it before and I’ll say it again, we do not matter.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Boby Brno said:

The shite argument about China and India and other developing countries is the biggest threat to this global problem. It doesn’t matter what 65 million Brits have in their home. There are 1.3 BILLION Chinese. 1.3 Billion Indians. 

Ive said it before and I’ll say it again, we do not matter.

Kind of agree.

We should each live our life well; everything counts.

Back to the Extinction people protesting against us/our Govt; we really are making great progress with wind energy, and I'm a sceptic

[mickbrown]

6 hours ago, Moon boy said:

Think Greta would be better off with a good mate and a bike or a dog, have a laugh get an ice cream, skip, this job is  too big for her. I fear for her wellbeing

Might have a point. Doesn’t help when you’ve grown adults acting like cunts to her

[London Wanderer]

1 hour ago, Boby Brno said:

The shite argument about China and India and other developing countries is the biggest threat to this global problem. It doesn’t matter what 65 million Brits have in their home. There are 1.3 BILLION Chinese. 1.3 Billion Indians. 

Ive said it before and I’ll say it again, we do not matter.

Here's why I think it's a shite argument bud, and a defeatist one. We are 10th in the world for CO2 emissions and for a country our size that's shocking. We also spend the most on fossil fuel subsidies than any other EU country, that tells me we matter. China and India don't emit more because they have big population, they emit more because they are providing resources for the 6 billion others on the planet. That said, they still need to do more and manage their populations, so I see your point. But if the rest of the globe refuse to support them, they will stop. 

The climate justice movement is a global one. We need to get our own house in order first but we also need to work with other countries or we are screwed. But we matter and we can make ourselves matter. This nation could do something amazing. All it takes is one country to do it right to trigger the change worldwide. Let's face it, every nation wants a solution, nobody wants us to become extinct. All it takes is one pioneer in green energy or carbon capturing technology to make that happen. Our government is doing jack shit to make that happen by giving our taxes to subside the wrong companies. So until they do, people will be out on the streets. 

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by London Wanderer

[gonzo]

Anyone that doesn’t think the weather and climate is changing before our very eyes is mental. 

There’s a different record broken every single year.  

[Boby Brno]

3 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Here's why I think it's a shite argument bud, and a defeatist one. We are 10th in the world for CO2 emissions and for a country our size that's shocking. We also spend the most on fossil fuel subsidies than any other EU country, that tells me we matter. China and India don't emit more because they have big population, they emit more because they are providing resources for the 6 billion others on the planet. That said, they still need to do more and manage their populations, so I see your point. But if the rest of the globe refuse to support them, they will stop. 

The climate justice movement is a global one. We need to get our own house in order first but we also need to work with other countries or we are screwed. But we matter and we can make ourselves matter. This nation could do something amazing. All it takes is one country to do it right to trigger the change worldwide. Let's face it, every nation wants a solution, nobody wants us to become extinct. All it takes is one pioneer in green energy or carbon capturing technology to make that happen. Our government is doing jack shit to make that happen by spending our taxes on the wrong solutions. So until they do, people will be out on the streets. 

 

I’ll come back to you on that tomorrow after I celebrate our performance today.👍

[London Wanderer]

1 minute ago, Boby Brno said:

I’ll come back to you on that tomorrow after I celebrate our performance today.👍

I know! Amazing ey, I'm starting to get excited. 

Have a good one !

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Here's why I think it's a shite argument bud, and a defeatist one. We are 10th in the world for CO2 emissions and for a country our size that's shocking. We also spend the most on fossil fuel subsidies than any other EU country, that tells me we matter. China and India don't emit more because they have big population, they emit more because they are providing resources for the 6 billion others on the planet. That said, they still need to do more and manage their populations, so I see your point. But if the rest of the globe refuse to support them, they will stop. 

The climate justice movement is a global one. We need to get our own house in order first but we also need to work with other countries or we are screwed. But we matter and we can make ourselves matter. This nation could do something amazing. All it takes is one country to do it right to trigger the change worldwide. Let's face it, every nation wants a solution, nobody wants us to become extinct. All it takes is one pioneer in green energy or carbon capturing technology to make that happen. Our government is doing jack shit to make that happen by giving our taxes to subside the wrong companies. So until they do, people will be out on the streets. 

 

This movement do not want such technologies, though

 

and read about the UK and wind energy before you lazily proffer that we are doing nothing

Edited September 21, 2019 by boltondiver

[Tonge moor green jacket]

23 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Here's why I think it's a shite argument bud, and a defeatist one. We are 10th in the world for CO2 emissions and for a country our size that's shocking. We also spend the most on fossil fuel subsidies than any other EU country, that tells me we matter. China and India don't emit more because they have big population, they emit more because they are providing resources for the 6 billion others on the planet. That said, they still need to do more and manage their populations, so I see your point. But if the rest of the globe refuse to support them, they will stop. 

The climate justice movement is a global one. We need to get our own house in order first but we also need to work with other countries or we are screwed. But we matter and we can make ourselves matter. This nation could do something amazing. All it takes is one country to do it right to trigger the change worldwide. Let's face it, every nation wants a solution, nobody wants us to become extinct. All it takes is one pioneer in green energy or carbon capturing technology to make that happen. Our government is doing jack shit to make that happen by giving our taxes to subside the wrong companies. So until they do, people will be out on the streets. 

 

Some reasonable points, though I'm not entirely sure that if we as a nation decided to go for it, that the populous would support it fully given trading/economic issues could ensue.

I'd love us to start applying taxes to imports from polluting nations that don't seem to give too much of a toss.

Just don't think a trade war and lack of choice would go down too well.

[London Wanderer]

14 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

This movement do not want such technologies, though

 

and read about the UK and wind energy before you lazily proffer that we are doing nothing

Can you find me where in their demands /manifesto it says that?

It's the complete oppposite of what I've read and heard. Also be aware, it's an autonomous movement, with plenty of nutters, but one persons view in it does not represent the movement. 

I know about the off shore wind farms and wind investment. My argument is that we are doing nowhere near enough, Not that we aren't doing anything. 

[London Wanderer]

5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Some reasonable points, though I'm not entirely sure that if we as a nation decided to go for it, that the populous would support it fully given trading/economic issues could ensue.

I'd love us to start applying taxes to imports from polluting nations that don't seem to give too much of a toss.

Just don't think a trade war and lack of choice would go down too well.

For me there isn't an option B, and when people really understand the path we are heading down, they will support it. There is prosperity and growth in a Green New Deal. If we don't act or we sit on the fence on some things then civilization collapses. That's the choice we are faced with. 

The next step of the Paris Agreement has to be to collectively sanction those who don't meet their targets. And let's not forget we're still not on target to meet them. 

[London Wanderer]

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

 Apology accepted. Now then, where can I book a good baton charge followed by water cannon and a Taser finish?

I thought you were the kind of bloke who got off on seeing 10 year olds sprayed with a giant hose  

[gonzo]

Does it not take 8 years for one wind turbine to pay for itself?

[kent_white]

27 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

The next step of the Paris Agreement has to be to collectively sanction those who don't meet their targets. And let's not forget we're still not on target to meet them. 

Or that one monumental bellend has unilaterally withdrawn a quite significant country from it!

[gonzo]

Heard today that to a T-Rex an iphone would be closer in time than a Stegosaurus. 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

35 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

For me there isn't an option B, and when people really understand the path we are heading down, they will support it. There is prosperity and growth in a Green New Deal. If we don't act or we sit on the fence on some things then civilization collapses. That's the choice we are faced with. 

The next step of the Paris Agreement has to be to collectively sanction those who don't meet their targets. And let's not forget we're still not on target to meet them. 

You're quite new I think, over the years on other threads I've pretty much championed some of what you're saying.

I have said several times I'd like us to be leading the world in this area, and look to base our economy around the environment.

I don't share your belief that folk will fall in behind it readily: doing it properly would reduce choice in the shops and involve everyone being happy with fewer "things" and reversing some social norms. Not sure society is ready for that.

Wouldn't concern me particularly, but plenty wouldn't like it.

I agree over things like the Paris agreement, we should carry on without trump and look to do what we can.

Boot out the political activists, the anti whoever banners, etc from the marches. Make them inclusive, folk can share concerns about the environment whether they are remainers or leavers, Tories or labour, young or old.

[kent_white]

7 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Heard today that to a T-Rex an iphone would be closer in time than a Stegosaurus. 

 

Amazing that isn't it!

[Tonge moor green jacket]

And a stegosaurus is closer to Parky's football.

[London Wanderer]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

You're quite new I think, over the years on other threads I've pretty much championed some of what you're saying.

I have said several times I'd like us to be leading the world in this area, and look to base our economy around the environment.

I don't share your belief that folk will fall in behind it readily: doing it properly would reduce choice in the shops and involve everyone being happy with fewer "things" and reversing some social norms. Not sure society is ready for that.

Wouldn't concern me particularly, but plenty wouldn't like it.

I agree over things like the Paris agreement, we should carry on without trump and look to do what we can.

Boot out the political activists, the anti whoever banners, etc from the marches. Make them inclusive, folk can share concerns about the environment whether they are remainers or leavers, Tories or labour, young or old.

Agreed. They need to be inclusive or they will fail and alienate people. Wouldn't it be great if it was a cause that didn't divide people?

I don't usually share that belief either, but maybe I've felt strangely more hopeful since I've been engaging with it. Although the rational part of my head still thinks we're screwed. I do wonder though, if people really understand that shit is seriously about to hit the fan in their own lifetime, if they will be willing to make the changes? We also don't need the average joe to agree. We just need enough people to make the government bring in the legislation. The rest of the population will be too apathetic to act away from a keyboard. 

Choice A- Carry on like we are and face war, famine and civilization collapse within this century.
Choice B- Citizens are made to adpat to significant lifestyle changes through the implementation of new legislation on businesses and corporations. 

I go for Choice B. And I think what people don't realise is choice B isn't all that bad. You still get to watch footy with a pint, you still get to sit down to family meal and you still get your holidays. The only things that change is what you consume and how you consume it. 


 

Edited September 21, 2019 by London Wanderer

[bolty58]

11 hours ago, kent_white said:

I'm surprised by that. There seems to be regular stories about wildfires and droughts in Oz - but I suppose that's something you just get used to. And Oz has the infrastructure to cope with it to an extent. I feel like England has become a lot more unpredictable in recent years.

Although it's hard to tell whether that's actually the case or if it's confirmation bias on my part. 

Maybe that's it - until it really starts impacting on places like Perth and Bolton - most people will just be a bit 'meh' about it. The problem is it'll probably be a bit too late to do anything by then.

We can't just give up though can we?

Absolutely not. We are all in support of taking real action here I suspect. I just have no time for folk who prevent ordinary people going about their everyday business and certainly not for pre pubescent little shits mouthing hypocritical nonsense when they, as my learned Aussie friend implies, are significant contributors with their fast food/travel and other habits lifestyles.

[bolty58]

6 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Here's why I think it's a shite argument bud, and a defeatist one. We are 10th in the world for CO2 emissions and for a country our size that's shocking. We also spend the most on fossil fuel subsidies than any other EU country, that tells me we matter. China and India don't emit more because they have big population, they emit more because they are providing resources for the 6 billion others on the planet. That said, they still need to do more and manage their populations, so I see your point. But if the rest of the globe refuse to support them, they will stop. 

The climate justice movement is a global one. We need to get our own house in order first but we also need to work with other countries or we are screwed. But we matter and we can make ourselves matter. This nation could do something amazing. All it takes is one country to do it right to trigger the change worldwide. Let's face it, every nation wants a solution, nobody wants us to become extinct. All it takes is one pioneer in green energy or carbon capturing technology to make that happen. Our government is doing jack shit to make that happen by giving our taxes to subside the wrong companies. So until they do, people will be out on the streets. 

 

Which comes back to my point about the unnecessary haste in getting rid of Boris' water cannon.

[bolty58]

6 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

I thought you were the kind of bloke who got off on seeing 10 year olds sprayed with a giant hose  

You must be confusing with some of the fucking weirdo's you must meet on those marches pal.

Still, such a comment does alert us to the kind of mind we are dealing with eh?

I look forward to the day when you chain yourself to a tree after a hearty mung bean and tofu breakfast you sick puppy.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Can you find me where in their demands /manifesto it says that?

It's the complete oppposite of what I've read and heard. Also be aware, it's an autonomous movement, with plenty of nutters, but one persons view in it does not represent the movement. 

I know about the off shore wind farms and wind investment. My argument is that we are doing nowhere near enough, Not that we aren't doing anything. 

You said that the Govt were doing "Jack shit"

Rejection of technologies;

From the Climate Strike website

https://www.peoplesdemands.org/#read-the-demands-section

Now, I'm not an expert, but it seems to be saying to reject nuclear, "technofixes", biofuel, carbon capture, "smart agriculture" as well as anything market-led or corporate.

Then outlines some wishy-washy stuff about local, indigenous etc.

Which is, prbably, fine and authentic (albeit from "The People's Demands; not on my behalf, thanks)

So, we have millions of kids around the world generally supporting a "good thing", but which is clearly a cynical left wing ideology underneath.

 

[only1swanny]

11 hours ago, gonzo said:

Heard today that to a T-Rex an iphone would be closer in time than a Stegosaurus. 

 

Stegosaurus were about 150m years ago, T-Rex were about 70m years ago.. (I used these figures a few weeks ago doing a lesson on place value)

The irony is here that "something killed all the dinosaurs", however the Dinosaurs from the Stegosaurus era were long gone before T-Rex's, and scientists reckon that's due to climate changes. 

Which in itself conjures up a lovely image of a dinosaur with a placard..