The Owners

[Mannyroader]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Publishing a detailed 3 year plan would be ridiculous. Theoretically, we could be in the Premier League in 3 years, or we could be in the Conference North. 

The league position of the team might not be of as much importance to the owners as we might think. The team can cut it's cloth according to where it lands, e.g. League 2 wages paid if in League 2.

If Rod Stewart or Pink Floyd play a concert at the stadium, it really does not matter what league the team is in. The same argument would apply for conferences, exhibitions, etc. held at the stadium.

A sustainable plan for 2 years was given to the Administrators and they seemed to be satisfied with it. I live on the other side of the world and have no financial input to the club anymore. If my money was being spent by the owners I would like to know how it is going to be spent in general terms.

[Cheese]

Just now, Mannyroader said:

If my money was being spent by the owners I would like to know how it is going to be spent in general terms.

I just don't understand that logic. I pay for a ticket to watch my beloved team play a football match. I don't consider myself an investor.

[Mannyroader]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I just don't understand that logic. I pay for a ticket to watch my beloved team play a football match. I don't consider myself an investor.

You are not a direct investor, you're a customer. You can say you are an emotional investor if your mood is ever affected by results or ownership issues. If fans are not concerned about such matters I wonder how the takeover thread went past 1000 pages.

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Mannyroader said:

 If fans are not concerned about such matters I wonder how the takeover thread went past 1000 pages.

Because we were on the brink of liquidation, in circumstances most fans of other clubs will hopefully never experience.

When you buy something from B&Q, do you fret over how the company are going to spend your money? 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Cheese

[Mannyroader]

No worrying at B&Q, true, but you might care how your income or council tax is used .. or your season ticket money.

I went to B&Q for a bag of nails. The bloke said "How long do you want them?" I said "Well, I'd like to keep them if I may".

[Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Mannyroader said:

No worrying at B&Q, true, but you might care how your income or council tax is used .. or your season ticket money. 

Buying a Season Ticket is a choice. Paying your Council Tax isn't. 

As long as I've got a football team to support, I'm happy. Only in extreme circumstances, such as potential liquidation, will I get concerned about our finances. Each to their own though. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Cheese

[Casino]

1 hour ago, Mannyroader said:

No worrying at B&Q, true, but you might care how your income or council tax is used .. or your season ticket money.

I went to B&Q for a bag of nails. The bloke said "How long do you want them?" I said "Well, I'd like to keep them if I may".

When i buy my ticket for 20 quid, i get 90 minutes of football

The club get my 20 quid to spend as they see fit

Thats the extent of the contract

 

 

[FrancisFogarty]

1 hour ago, Mannyroader said:

No worrying at B&Q, true, but you might care how your income or council tax is used .. or your season ticket money.

 

No point in worrying about any of the above, it's gone.

All we can do is believe that the people that have saved us do what they have promised. Until then in Aunty Sharon I trust.

Hopefully the EFL have will now close the loopholes that let that shithouse buy us and almost send us to oblivion.

 

[TM Trotter]

8 hours ago, Mannyroader said:

The league position of the team might not be of as much importance to the owners as we might think. The team can cut it's cloth according to where it lands, e.g. League 2 wages paid if in League 2.

If Rod Stewart or Pink Floyd play a concert at the stadium, it really does not matter what league the team is in. The same argument would apply for conferences, exhibitions, etc. held at the stadium.

A sustainable plan for 2 years was given to the Administrators and they seemed to be satisfied with it. I live on the other side of the world and have no financial input to the club anymore. If my money was being spent by the owners I would like to know how it is going to be spent in general terms.

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember the figure of £40,000 profit from the summer concerts being in one of the documents that was shared on the takeover thread. That would pay the salary of our current back four for about a month.

While a nice bonus, I don't believe summer concerts will be central to FV's financial plan, especially in comparison to the league the club is playing in.

[Mannyroader]

21 minutes ago, TM Trotter said:

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember the figure of £40,000 profit from the summer concerts being in one of the documents that was shared on the takeover thread. That would pay the salary of our current back four for about a month.

While a nice bonus, I don't believe summer concerts will be central to FV's financial plan, especially in comparison to the league the club is playing in.

Yes, I saw that figure too. If only there was a 40K profit every time there was a match on.

[Chris Custodiet]

6 hours ago, Mannyroader said:

Yes, I saw that figure too. If only there was a 40K profit every time there was a match on.

Just a gentle reminder that the last time we were in League1 our total income was 8.3m and our expenditure (excluding 12.6m wages) was 8.9m. So, unless Sharon is able  to massively reduce costs, I think that we can safely conclude that much of the current wages (including permanent staff) will be paid out of borrowed money.

There's no obvious alternative but haven't we been there before? Sharon seems enthusiastic and sincere but what's the plan she's put to the investors/lenders? How do they get their money back?

[Mounts Kipper]

7 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Just a gentle reminder that the last time we were in League1 our total income was 8.3m and our expenditure (excluding 12.6m wages) was 8.9m. So, unless Sharon is able  to massively reduce costs, I think that we can safely conclude that much of the current wages (including permanent staff) will be paid out of borrowed money.

There's no obvious alternative but haven't we been there before? Sharon seems enthusiastic and sincere but what's the plan she's put to the investors/lenders? How do they get their money back?

Our wage bill is tiny compared to a the last time we were in league 1. No reason we can’t match our income to our expenditure and be competitive. 

[barrycowdrill]

If people still feel the need to adopt a forensic assessment of where their / our collective £20s go then you need to find another hobby 

The club has been saved and by what we are seeing so far and the noises we are hearing, is now stable. Or the most stable it has been in a number of years 

we’re football fans not finance / chairman fans. Stop worrying yourself over something you know nothing about, never will and cannot influence 

relax and begin the enjoy the hopeful change in fortunes on the football side and the journey that takes us on 

[Chris Custodiet]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Our wage bill is tiny compared to a the last time we were in league 1. No reason we can’t match our income to our expenditure and be competitive. 

Isn't there? How in League 1 are you going to increase income beyond 8.3M? We had an average matchday attendance  of 15,194 last time we were in League 1.

How much are you going to save on running costs whilst still providing similar facilities and services?

And all that's before you've paid a penny on wages. Wages costs are bound to be much less, but do you have any idea what the current monthly costs are?

On another point, did you notice how Sharon heaped praise on Michael James, the Supporters Trust's public enemy number two? Are you btw still a fan of the ST?

 

[Mounts Kipper]

9 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Isn't there? How in League 1 are you going to increase income beyond 8.3M? We had an average matchday attendance  of 15,194 last time we were in League 1.

How much are you going to save on running costs whilst still providing similar facilities and services?

And all that's before you've paid a penny on wages. Wages costs are bound to be much less, but do you have any idea what the current monthly costs are?

On another point, did you notice how Sharon heaped praise on Michael James, the Supporters Trust's public enemy number two? Are you btw still a fan of the ST?

 

No I don’t know what the monthly costs are except they will be a million miles from last time and I expect the new owners to try to match income to expenditure so that they can pay suppliers and staff, unlike your hero. 

Dear me, nightingale was only person in the trust having a pop at MJ, do you think that he speaks for all the board and all the members? 

And yes I’m in favour of BWFC having a supporters trust, they connect with the new owner now we’ve got a decent owner and I’m sure that they can work together to try to help each other and improve the matchday experience and on community and club projects. 

 

[Chris Custodiet]

On 23/09/2019 at 08:46, Mounts Kipper said:

No I don’t know what the monthly costs are except they will be a million miles from last time and I expect the new owners to try to match income to expenditure so that they can pay suppliers and staff, unlike your hero. 

Dear me, nightingale was only person in the trust having a pop at MJ, do you think that he speaks for all the board and all the members? 

And yes I’m in favour of BWFC having a supporters trust, they connect with the new owner now we’ve got a decent owner and I’m sure that they can work together to try to help each other and improve the matchday experience and on community and club projects. 

 

My 'hero' as you put it just happens to be  one of two people I described at a public meeting as chancers. In that respect I never changed my views about either of them  but I did recognise that one was a chancer with something to offer whilst the other cost the club a small fortune for doing precisely nothing except for landing it with a loan the club could not repay at interest rates it could never afford .

Nightingale certainly wasn't speaking for this member but there wasn't the slightest indication that he was expressing views contrary to those with whom he was sharing a platform and I don't  believe for one moment that he would have come out with that tripe if it had not been the subject of prior discussion and 'nodding of heads' amongst them.

Did you mean the club now has a decent chairman? Sharon is not the owner but she is one of only two directors, the other being the subject of outrageous ST vitriol. I'm sure she's too polite to react in the same way as her predecessor but I have no doubt that she will have taken appropriate note.

As for your 'million miles' your knowledge of football finance (BWFC or anyone else) seems to be on a par with the ST board (i.e. negligible) but for the benefit of anyone who might be interested, the total revenues of League 1 clubs in 2017/18 was £146m (average £6m per club)  with 94% of that (average £5.7m per club) spent on wages.

Championship clubs (excepting BWFC) had an average annual loss of £15m in 2017/18 which makes BWFC's loss of £4m over two years look good by comparison. (Source: Deloitte Annual Review of Football Finance 2019).

Edited September 24, 2019 by Chris Custodiet
Re-found the £ sign, lost in recent Windows update

[peelyfeet]

 

On 23/09/2019 at 09:21, Chris Custodiet said:

 

Championship clubs (excepting BWFC) had an average annual loss of £15m in 2017/18 which makes BWFC's loss of £4m over two years look good by comparison. (Source: Deloitte Annual Review of Football Finance 2019).

Doesn't matter what the average annual loss is, it's the ability of those holding the purse strings to negate the loss whilst continuing to grow the value of the assets at the same time, which Ken clearly couldn't do either of.  

Edited September 24, 2019 by peelyfeet

[Burndens Bogs]

On 23/09/2019 at 09:21, Chris Custodiet said:

 

Did you mean the club now has a decent chairman? Sharon is not the owner but she is one of only two directors.

Eh? I thought Sharon was the head of the "consortium" that bought us?

If Michael James and Sharon Brittan aren't owners of FV who are the new owners of BWFC, i must have missed something.

 

[Sluffy]

56 minutes ago, Burndens Bogs said:

Eh? I thought Sharon was the head of the "consortium" that bought us?

If Michael James and Sharon Brittan aren't owners of FV who are the new owners of BWFC, i must have missed something.

Custard is correct in so far as we don't really know who owns FV.

To be an owner you must have shares in the company and although Sharon and Mike James both held two shares each of the allotted six shares issued before the 27th August, on that day a further 2,749,994 shares were issued (making 2,750,000 in total) of which 1,750,000 were allocated - meaning someone must have bought them.

As you have to declare if you own over 25% of shares in a company - and nobody has made such a declaration - then it therefore follows that a minimum of at least four people or business own a quarter stake in FV.  Of course it may be even five or more individuals or business with ownership shares, we don't really know who owns what, other than no individual or business owns outright more than a quarter of the shares in FV.

It's a reasonable assumption that Sharon and MJ are shareholders BUT we don't actually know that now for certain.

 

I would like to add a personal note of thanks to those of have sent their kind wishes to me.

I much appreciate your kind thoughts.

[Sluffy]

1 hour ago, peelyfeet said:

Doesn't matter what the average annual loss is, it's the ability of those holding the purse strings to negate the loss whilst continuing to grow the value of the assets at the same time, which Ken clearly couldn't do either of.  

There is the little matter of the repayment of a £20m loan against assets (£40m if you believed the football financial guru Maguire) due in three years time, that no one seems to have taken into account.

I would suggest we certainly aren't going to be clearing a profit in excess of £20m (plus interest) in the next three years whilst the club is floundering in the third /fourth tiers of the football league.

[Casino]

depends if we flog the hotel and the stadium and loads of land

 

do keep up

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

There is the little matter of the repayment of a £20m loan against assets (£40m if you believed the football financial guru Maguire) due in three years time, that no one seems to have taken into account.

I would suggest we certainly aren't going to be clearing a profit in excess of £20m (plus interest) in the next three years whilst the club is floundering in the third /fourth tiers of the football league.

Perhaps by then it is envisaged that we will be a far more settled club, with a decent set of owners who are far more approachable and amenable to any prospective buyers, who could pay enough to give fv a bit of profit, and move the club further.

Or maybe they'll see a happier club going the right way and look at ways of refinancing over a longer term and see where it takes them.

Who knows, and frankly, at the moment who cares- nice to watch a bit of decent football.

[peelyfeet]

20 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

There is the little matter of the repayment of a £20m loan against assets (£40m if you believed the football financial guru Maguire) due in three years time, that no one seems to have taken into account.

I would suggest we certainly aren't going to be clearing a profit in excess of £20m (plus interest) in the next three years whilst the club is floundering in the third /fourth tiers of the football league.

Investment into and improvement of the academy is relatively cheap to fund.

Income from transfers is the only way (I can see, in the current situation) that clubs similar to BWFC  have of getting out of the debt trap of the EFL, without further external investment  from a benefactor. Everything else just kicks the can down the road.    

[Sluffy]

37 minutes ago, Casino said:

depends if we flog the hotel and the stadium and loads of land

 

do keep up

Keep up - that was the very point I was making???

We aren't going to clear a profit of £20m plus on the football side so we either have another benevolent owner who is willing to fund the club from their own personal wealth as Davies did or there has to be some sort of development and sale of assets such as land and/or stadium.

If people don't want to be bothered about the financial side of the club then that's fine but the reality is that unless we have found another Eddie that the financial side will directly determine what is achievable player wise and happening on the pitch - in regards to servicing and repaying the £20m loan as well as trading at a loss/breakeven/small profit for the next three years.

We aren't going to be selling the academy kids (no matter how good we believe they are) for millions whilst most of them are still under the age of twenty one and playing third/fourth tier level football and we won't be able to throw much money into the transfer pot to buy ourselves out of the divisions.

Our financial position will out of necessity overshadow anything that can and does happen on the pitch.

I'm not trying to be negative but simply trying to explain the reality of where we now are.

Personally I've always enjoyed our progress from the lower divisions going up than the many years we've had in the past clinging on to staying in higher leagues and plunging down them.

[Roger_Dubuis]

1 hour ago, Sluffy said:

 

If people don't want to be bothered about the financial side of the club then that's fine but the reality is that unless we have found another Eddie that the financial side will directly determine what is achievable player wise and happening on the pitch 

Our financial position will out of necessity overshadow anything that can and does happen on the pitch.

Personally I've always enjoyed our progress from the lower divisions going up than the many years we've had in the past clinging on to staying in higher leagues and plunging down them.

Eddie Davies didn't spend any of his money in the transfer market the last time we were promoted to the Premier League

 

After the play off defeat at Ipswich  the club sold Claus Jensen for £4 million, Eidur Gudjohnsen for £4 million and Mark Fish for £700k.

 

The major incomings that summer were Per Frandsen and Michael Ricketts for £2 million combined.

 

Ken didn't make as much profit in the transfer market the season he sold Madine

 

It was a top manager rather than a sugar daddy that got BWFC into the Premier League during Eddie Davies' time.FV just need to find the next Rioch and Allardyce