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TrickyTrotter

FV Ownership Model

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7 hours ago, Sluffy said:

 

We aren't going to be selling the academy kids (no matter how good we believe they are) for millions whilst most of them are still under the age of twenty one and playing third/fourth tier level football and we won't be able to throw much money into the transfer pot to buy ourselves out of the divisions.

 

Hopefully,  you may be underestimating the potential of the academy. We have a category 2 academy regardless of which league we are in.  Most of the current players joined when the academy was category 1, and should have benefited from this in their early years. Category 2 is the same level as Crystal Palace, Leeds, Sheff Utd, Cardiff, Watford, Burnley, all of whom have produced (and sometimes sold) young academy players worth multi million £s recently. 41 of the 47 clubs in leagues 1 and 2 have a lower ranked academy than us. Only Sunderland have one ranked higher. Got to hope some talent comes through.

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Yet keith hill isnt very complementary about the quality of the players

Tbh, i found it a very strange interview at this stage

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7 minutes ago, Casino said:

Yet keith hill isnt very complementary about the quality of the players

Tbh, i found it a very strange interview at this stage

He worked at Barnsley when John Stones came through. I think Mason Holgate is another from there plus others I can't recall. He has something to directly compare to, anyway.

 

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7 hours ago, Casino said:

Yet keith hill isnt very complementary about the quality of the players

Tbh, i found it a very strange interview at this stage

For me it would have been better for him to just say that he thinks the entire development side of things at the club has been run the wrong way rather than mentioning the players at all. That said it shows he has a long term vision and direction and that is a positive thing.

On a related note the sometimes mentioned Chris Beech didn't pursue the assistant manager job at his hometown club Blackpool and is still out of work for now.

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8 hours ago, Casino said:

Yet keith hill isnt very complementary about the quality of the players

Tbh, i found it a very strange interview at this stage

His media interviews will get him into trouble. Especially if/when results aren't great.

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14 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Err, thank you for your comments I guess, although I'm not absolutely sure of the point you are making from events of 20 odd years ago?

The point I was attempting to originally make was that a financially secured club determines ultimately what happens on the pitch - Christ have we learned nothing at all from Bury's demise and our squeaky bum escape from the same fate?

In the league we might have started on minus 12 points but as a business the club in real life also started on minus £20m, which needs to be found and paid back when it becomes due in three years time.

It's not unreasonable to believe that wont be achievable by footballing endeavours alone - with or without a Rioch or Allardyce - particularly at third/fourth tier level? 

Bury got promoted last year remember for all the good it eventually did them in the end!

So either we need to have a benevolent owner in the Eddie Davies mould willing to defer or write the amount off, or more than likely develop and sell assets such as the stadium and/or land.

I humbly suggest therefore that the financial driver for the business is more likely to be focused away from the pitch than on it.

That's all I've attempted to say.

I thnk you'll find, Sluffy, that those who lack any sense of realism or objectivity now have probably been exactly the same throughout their adult lives and are destined to remain no different for the rest of it. Twenty years ago I wondered how the club expected to repay, or at least reduce, the debt taken on to build the Reebok whilst Allardici and the Daydreamers could only think about doubling it in the vain hope of competing with  moneybags Liverpool for a Champions League spot.

After Allardyce flounced out announcing he was taking a break from football, only to turn up  at Newcastle in next to no time on a  £3m p.a. salary, ED was obliged to more than double the debt to just hang on to Premiership status. He paid it all off a few years later but that, as they say, was only the beginning of the fortune ED spent trying to keep BWFC afloat until the day he died.

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1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

His media interviews will get him into trouble. Especially if/when results aren't great.

I think he's started to be better in interviews. More focus on results than endless waffle about process and progress. 

His comments about the kids struck me as odd as when I've seen them play they've always struck me as being technically quite sound but physically in many cases way way behind the standard. Some of that is natural of course. But he seems to be saying the opposite. 

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11 hours ago, Casino said:

Yet keith hill isnt very complementary about the quality of the players

Tbh, i found it a very strange interview at this stage

Does he not need to manage expectations though. Our lads will now think they can make pro when in reality they will be non league semi pro at best.

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2 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I thnk you'll find, Sluffy, that those who lack any sense of realism or objectivity now have probably been exactly the same throughout their adult lives and are destined to remain no different for the rest of it. Twenty years ago I wondered how the club expected to repay, or at least reduce, the debt taken on to build the Reebok whilst Allardici and the Daydreamers could only think about doubling it in the vain hope of competing with  moneybags Liverpool for a Champions League spot.

After Allardyce flounced out announcing he was taking a break from football, only to turn up  at Newcastle in next to no time on a  £3m p.a. salary, ED was obliged to more than double the debt to just hang on to Premiership status. He paid it all off a few years later but that, as they say, was only the beginning of the fortune ED spent trying to keep BWFC afloat until the day he died.

I think you've nailed it here. We're all thick as fuck, always have been, and needless to say you'll have the last laugh. 

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36 minutes ago, Flannel Truscott said:

I think you've nailed it here. We're all thick as fuck, always have been, and needless to say you'll have the last laugh. 

He's a very bitter individual, some major issues somewhere.

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Will have contracted gonorrhoea from a bag burst when shagging a cheap street walking whore. Who needless to say had VD with puss that resembled custard dripping out of her cunt. 
 

Infection identified too late and it’s addled his brain. Permanently. 

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20 years of wondering and analysing the financial goings on of a business for the sum reward of fuck all 

and we’re the thick ones 

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2 hours ago, Big E said:

Does he not need to manage expectations though. Our lads will now think they can make pro when in reality they will be non league semi pro at best.

I'm not sure they will. I doubt any of the youngsters were under any illusions as to why they'd been playing for the first team recently.

And if expectations do need to be managed, it can very easily be done privately by the Academy coaches.

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6 hours ago, ErnestTurnip said:

For me it would have been better for him to just say that he thinks the entire development side of things at the club has been run the wrong way rather than mentioning the players at all. That said it shows he has a long term vision and direction and that is a positive thing.

On a related note the sometimes mentioned Chris Beech didn't pursue the assistant manager job at his hometown club Blackpool and is still out of work for now.

Saying the development side at the club isn't up to snuff would be signposting to all the Academy staff that they can get ready to take a long walk down a short plank. The Academy coaching staff looks like a resting place for former players, so maybe there needs to be a merit based system of picking Academy coaches put in place. The Academy needs to pay its own way, otherwise what is the point of it? Of course we would have been up the creek without a paddle without Academy players this season, but no club sets up an Academy on the off chance that nearly all the club's senior pros jump ship.

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46 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'm not sure they will. I doubt any of the youngsters were under any illusions as to why they'd been playing for the first team recently.

And if expectations do need to be managed, it can very easily be done privately by the Academy coaches.

I'm not convinced putting it in public is a bad idea. He's probably trying to motivate them into proving him wrong. And I also think it stops fans from thinking that we can just throw the kids in cos they got a couple of draws. I found his first week of interviews bizarre but he's toned down the Owen Coyle positives stuff and seems focussed on trying to win games. I quite like that and if he genuinely has the drive with which he speaks it will be good all round. His comments are forthright at times but we did alright with Allardyce and he was never one to hold back. 

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11 minutes ago, Mannyroader said:

Saying the development side at the club isn't up to snuff would be signposting to all the Academy staff that they can get ready to take a long walk down a short plank

I think that's exactly what he said only he did it by talking about the players rather than the staff.

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17 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Yes it is speculation, but more plausible I suggest than a residential football stadium.

What's wrong with speculation anyway, don't we speculate what the scores going to be, who will be in the team, who we would like to sign, who our next manager will be, whether the hot dogs will be buttered now we have a new owner?

Isn't part of the fun trying to work out what is likely to happen next?

As for whether it has anything to do with us, no its not - but if they did sell the stadium wouldn't we all be talking about it - even though we've just agreed it isn't our business?

Sorry if my reasoned speculation seemed to have upset you or anyone else in anyway, it certainly wasn't intended to do so.

It seems pointless. I think most of us are now having a breather from 2/3 years off dross conversation about BWFCs finances and just want to concentrate on the games ahead.

No one knows what FV will do and we may as well sit back and enjoy the ride. FWIW I’m not sure your speculation is reasoned as I think FV don’t let anything out and long may it continue.

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3 hours ago, Flannel Truscott said:

I think you've nailed it here. We're all thick as fuck, always have been, and needless to say you'll have the last laugh. 

It’s odd as @Chris Custodiet could of saved us stupid types a lot of headaches if he’d have given us his twenty years thesis at the start. I’d assume he’d have a solution after 20 years that ken was a bell end, but we never seemed to get there.

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1 hour ago, barrycowdrill said:

20 years of wondering and analysing the financial goings on of a business for the sum reward of fuck all 

and we’re the thick ones 

I bet he used to say Phillipa Forrester was thinking mans crumpet😂

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3 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'm not sure they will. I doubt any of the youngsters were under any illusions as to why they'd been playing for the first team recently.

And if expectations do need to be managed, it can very easily be done privately by the Academy coaches.

Academy lads walk round like they are the dogs bollocks from day dot. 

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1 hour ago, Big E said:

Academy lads walk round like they are the dogs bollocks from day dot. 

Who's told you that?

It doesn't tie in with what Hill's said and I think he'd have mentioned it if it were the case.

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4 hours ago, Mannyroader said:

Saying the development side at the club isn't up to snuff would be signposting to all the Academy staff that they can get ready to take a long walk down a short plank. The Academy coaching staff looks like a resting place for former players, so maybe there needs to be a merit based system of picking Academy coaches put in place. The Academy needs to pay its own way, otherwise what is the point of it? Of course we would have been up the creek without a paddle without Academy players this season, but no club sets up an Academy on the off chance that nearly all the club's senior pros jump ship.

The Academy set-up was ranked first of all Football League clubs in terms of productivity, and second overall, for the periods between 2013 and 2017. That doesn't always translate to players becoming regulars in our first team or us being able to sell them on for a big profit, but they're clearly doing something right.

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6 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Who's told you that?

It doesn't tie in with what Hill's said and I think he'd have mentioned it if it were the case.

I am on about in general. Used to when I was working at the ground

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27 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

The Academy set-up was ranked first of all Football League clubs in terms of productivity, and second overall, for the periods between 2013 and 2017. That doesn't always translate to players becoming regulars in our first team or us being able to sell them on for a big profit, but they're clearly doing something right.

Where is that info coming from, the old BEN/BWFC website article ? It doesn't look to be accurate if you have a look around at other sources, or at least the ones I found.

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1 hour ago, ErnestTurnip said:

Where is that info coming from, the old BEN/BWFC website article ? It doesn't look to be accurate if you have a look around at other sources, or at least the ones I found.

Take the positive view and keep the feel good factor. :)

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