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TrickyTrotter

FV Ownership Model

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18 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I think you have missed my point. If FV have pots of money and £ms less is being paid to secured creditors there should be no need for the secured creditors to have to wait two years and the unsecured creditors should be getting quite a bit more than 35p in the £.

I understood the point you were making. I just thought you were also looking for clarification on the agreement with unsecured creditors. In that regard, I assumed the EFL's guidelines might assist.

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4 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said:

If FV have got £40m, how come EDT are having to wait two years for £5m, only half of their £10m secured debt (according to Rubins)?

Without in any way casting doubt on FV's  best intentions, there's something not adding up here? I appreciate that there are many who don't give a monkeys but how much are the unsecured creditors now going to get?

My thoughts on this Chris is that the £40m is the funding stream to be drawn from, similarly how Moonshift was the line of credit for Burnden Leisure, the total 'bank' or pot of money if you will, in terms of the purchase and immediate three year running of the club - but also and more significantly the funding for the infrastructure development that will be the core behind why the hotel was key to the purchase.

So in other words two completely separate funding plans/stages, the first to purchase the club, hotel and three year running of the football team - hence why creditors are having to wait, with the second 'ring fenced' funds, to finance whatever the land/property development entails, kicking in only after the purchase had been completed - and not being part of the original purchase financing at all.

I would imagine whatever the planned development is, is completed and sold off within the three year time frame with the expected sale bringing in sufficient to repay the initial capital (for the second stage) with profit used to settle the outstanding creditors from the initial club purchase and thus leaving the core FV members (Sharon and whoever else) with the business with no creditors other than themselves and a club being run financially sustainably, to be taken forward or sold on depending on whatever Sharon's plans are at that point.

I would further imagine the land/property development would in some way directly effect the stadium and hotel and in may be that they are ultimately sold off.  As Michael James/PBP has his money secured on the hotel, then he/they may take the money and leave the consortium at that stage (or at least end PBP's interests as such).

Edited by Sluffy
Grammar errors

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1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I understood the point you were making. I just thought you were also looking for clarification on the agreement with unsecured creditors. In that regard, I assumed the EFL's guidelines might assist.

You assume wrongly then as the EFL set's a minimum percentage payment for unsecured creditors (for two or three years), not a sliding scale or whatever you may have been thinking of(?).

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1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

I think you have missed my point. If FV have pots of money and £ms less is being paid to secured creditors there should be no need for the secured creditors to have to wait two years and the unsecured creditors should be getting quite a bit more than 35p in the £.

That’s not really how most admins work though. People are paid pence in pound by often very rich individuals 

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27 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

You assume wrongly then as the EFL set's a minimum percentage payment for unsecured creditors (for two or three years), not a sliding scale or whatever you may have been thinking of(?).

It was that minimum percentage I was referring to. 25 pence in the pound immediately on completion of the takeover or 35 pence in the pound over three years.

Obviously, FV could've paid more than that if they'd chosen to but I believe it was reported they'd offered 35 pence in the pound. I think it was Nixon who reported what the offer was though, so I don't know how accurate it is.

Edited by Lt. Aldo Raine

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2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

It was that minimum percentage I was referring to. 25 pence in the pound immediately on completion of the takeover or 35 pence in the pound over three years.

Obviously, FV could've paid more than that if they'd chosen to but I believe it was reported they'd offered 35 pence in the pound. I think it was Nixon who reported what the offer was though, so I don't know how accurate it is.

It's not exactly a 'choice' to pay more as such to the creditors, as what was required from FV point of view was submitting their tender based on what they believe would be the successful one but also allowing themselves sufficient funds in their 'pot' to be retained to keep the business solvent for the next 2/3 years.

It would seem they were not flushed with money right from the start and the fact that they spoke to creditors and reached agreements for deferring payments for three years would seem to add substance to that view and as such I don't believe they had the financial flexibility to have 'chosen' to pay more even if they had wanted to.

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6 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

It's not exactly a 'choice' to pay more as such to the creditors, as what was required from FV point of view was submitting their tender based on what they believe would be the successful one but also allowing themselves sufficient funds in their 'pot' to be retained to keep the business solvent for the next 2/3 years.

It would seem they were not flushed with money right from the start and the fact that they spoke to creditors and reached agreements for deferring payments for three years would seem to add substance to that view and as such I don't believe they had the financial flexibility to have 'chosen' to pay more even if they had wanted to.

I think you're probably right. When I mentioned that they could've paid more I meant it theoretically i.e. the 25 and 35 pence in the pound scenarios were merely the EFL's stated minumum requirements.

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16 hours ago, Sluffy said:

Are you for real?

I'm sure someone has not randomly stuck in £40m without a plan to at least safeguard their investment and get a return on it.

That certainly won't be on the off chance that we make £20m plus back on the playing side inside three years.

As for your list of conceivability's, it's also conceivable that Lord Lucan will be winning next years Grand National on Shergar but that certainly doesn't mean it will be happening.

Have a nice day down at the Bolton Futsal Club

Thanks for your condescending tone once again. It's not a nice personality trait Sluffy. My list was intentionally meant to show extremes to put the point across that we don't know what's going to happen, and that FV's plans will be to some extreme fluid, based on various potential outcomes. If you aren't intelligent enough to understand that, then I hope this has explained it for you. If you are intelligent enough, then why did you mock? I'll pass on your mockery to Bolton Futsal club too, I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear that you are taking the piss.

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2 hours ago, Sluffy said:

My thoughts on this Chris is that the £40m is the funding stream to be drawn from, similarly how Moonshift was the line of credit for Burnden Leisure, the total 'bank' or pot of money if you will, in terms of the purchase and immediate three year running of the club - but also and more significantly the funding for the infrastructure development that will be the core behind why the hotel was key to the purchase.

So in other words two completely separate funding plans/stages, the first to purchase the club, hotel and three year running of the football team - hence why creditors are having to wait, with the second 'ring fenced' funds, to finance whatever the land/property development entails, kicking in only after the purchase had been completed - and not being part of the original purchase financing at all.

I would imagine whatever the planned development is, is completed and sold off within the three year time frame with the expected sale bringing in sufficient to repay the initial capital (for the second stage) with profit used to settle the outstanding creditors from the initial club purchase and thus leaving the core FV members (Sharon and whoever else) with the business with no creditors other than themselves and a club being run financially sustainably, to be taken forward or sold on depending on whatever Sharon's plans are at that point.

I would further imagine the land/property development would in some way directly effect the stadium and hotel and in may be that they are ultimately sold off.  As Michael James/PBP has his money secured on the hotel, then he/they may take the money and leave the consortium at that stage (or at least end PBP's interests as such).

And Cliff Richard could win Wimbledon next year, using a robot racket designed by Ken Anderson . Sponsored by Thomas Cook.

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So, what happened to the Sweaty one and his supposed  court case with The cretinous Bassini?

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I neither know nor care.

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Aye I only wish ken all the worst but he’s becoming a distant shitty memory now

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Iles was saying in yesterday's paper that today is the day FV clear outstanding debts to football creditors no longer contracted.....They are funding the payments themselves rather than taking a PFA loan as originally planned . Well played FV :hi:

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5 hours ago, Ros Coe said:

So, what happened to the Sweaty one and his supposed  court case with The cretinous Bassini?

or that vegan bloke?

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5 hours ago, burnden said:

Iles was saying in yesterday's paper that today is the day FV clear outstanding debts to football creditors no longer contracted.....They are funding the payments themselves rather than taking a PFA loan as originally planned . Well played FV :hi:

That explains a snippet in the Daily Mail about former players expecting payment this week, but they said it was after the 'collapse' of the PFA loan whereas this sounds more like FV deciding to sort it directly rather than involving and presumably paying for the services of a middleman. 

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I heard someone saying a couple of months ago that FV were working on an app - and that it was central to their business model and how they had pulled in some investors. I've heard nowt about it since - does it ring any bells with anybody?

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All previous football creditors have been paid, big step in the right direction!

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4 hours ago, kent_white said:

I heard someone saying a couple of months ago that FV were working on an app - and that it was central to their business model and how they had pulled in some investors. I've heard nowt about it since - does it ring any bells with anybody?

I've not heard anything about an app, but sounds interesting, if it's true I wonder if its linked to the club/football or something totally separate? I do think there is loads more money to be made, especially for the smaller clubs, by expanding into other markets and getting the community more involved. How many fans do you think we realistically have, we've got almost 300K followers on Facebook.

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55 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

How many fans do you think we realistically have, we've got almost 300K followers on Facebook.

Aye, and 290,200 of them went to the Darlington game.

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7 hours ago, kent_white said:

I heard someone saying a couple of months ago that FV were working on an app - and that it was central to their business model and how they had pulled in some investors. I've heard nowt about it since - does it ring any bells with anybody?

I remember reading the same thing. It all seemed very intriguing at the time but I've also heard nothing since.

Big caveat, though - what I read about it was from Nixon.

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Is Mark Little really claiming Bolton Wanderers aren't a proper club? Fuck me, that's a biggie.

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